Refusing Service on Religious Grounds

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CatholicGeek1 said:
The Red Cross does not refuse blood from homosexuals, it refuses blood from people that have homosexual sex, because this has a high risk of blood borne diseases.
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So the Red Cross discriminates against those who engage in homosexual sex, and rightfuly so. Sometimes discrimination is a necessary and good thing.

The word itself denotes the ability to make distinctions, i.e., a ‘discriminating wine connosieur,’ a discriminating palate, a ‘discriminating art collector.’
 
Personally that would be fine by me, id seek out alternatives.

But the examples you gave are based upon what the people are and not based upon actions and behavior. Using racism to make a point for homosexual discrimination is a double pace palm.
 
CatholicGeek1 said:
I don’t think so. If you are going to conduct business in the public square, you cannot pick and choose who you serve. You have a right to your conscience, but you do not have a right to discriminate.
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So you mean we cant worship both God and man at the same time?

You mean when Jesus said He was hated, so too shall His servants be hated for preaching His word and doing His work, He meant that for everyone else except us?

If youre Catholic, you will be hated. Period. It seems people try to appease both sides when that, in the bigger picture, is impossible.
 
kelvinf said:
What I said is a fact. Maybe I shouldn’t have specifically referred to the Red Cross. Gay men can’t donate blood anywhere in this country because they fall under the high risk group.

How can you have a right to your conscience but cannot act according to that right? The two don’t go together. So you are basically saying that providing a service takes precedence over freedom of conscience?
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What I am saying is that you cannot use your conscience as a reason to deny service to someone when you operate a business that is open to the public.
 
PetrusRomanus said:
Personally that would be fine by me, id seek out alternatives.

But the examples you gave are based upon what the people are and not based upon actions and behavior. Using racism to make a point for homosexual discrimination is a double pace palm.
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But what most of the people on here are talking about is the same thing. Those that are burdened with being homosexual are discriminated against based on who they are. There are many homosexuals that do not act on their instincts and therefore, do not engage in sinful practices.
 
PetrusRomanus said:
So you mean we cant worship both God and man at the same time?

You mean when Jesus said He was hated, so too shall His servants be hated for preaching His word and doing His work, He meant that for everyone else except us?

If youre Catholic, you will be hated. Period. It seems people try to appease both sides when that, in the bigger picture, is impossible.
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Its not about trying to appease both sides. It is about saying that I believe homosexual activity is wrong. I also believe that discrimination is wrong. I do not hate homosexuals, I hate homosexual activity.
 
PetrusRomanus said:
So you mean we cant worship both God and man at the same time?

You mean when Jesus said He was hated, so too shall His servants be hated for preaching His word and doing His work, He meant that for everyone else except us?

If youre Catholic, you will be hated. Period. It seems people try to appease both sides when that, in the bigger picture, is impossible.
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I’m a Catholic in the south. Misunderstood, not hated for sure. But that was 35 yrs ago. No one really cares what your faith is now. It’s not a top ten issue for anyone that I know. There are bigger fish to fry in our society.🤷
 
Julianna said:
So true CG, I don’t think the poster gets that part.🤷
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I do get it. As Catholics, we are to publicly practice our faith. People will hate is for that. If they dont hate is, its because we’re doing something wrong in that sense 🙂
 
Julianna said:
I’m a Catholic in the south. Misunderstood, not hated for sure. But that was 35 yrs ago. No one really cares what your faith is now. It’s not a top ten issue for anyone that I know. There are bigger fish to fry in our society.🤷
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So youre calling Jesus a liar? Your gripe is with Him, not me. I was just quoting what He said.
 
CatholicGeek1 said:
Its not about trying to appease both sides. It is about saying that I believe homosexual activity is wrong. I also believe that discrimination is wrong. I do not hate homosexuals, I hate homosexual activity.
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Unjust discrimination is wrong, agreed.

Choosing not to violate our conscience by giving them any sort of tacit approval for their actions is right. Business or no business. Baking a cake for a gay wedding (which is actions) is giving tacit approval, since youre acknowledging that a wedding is even taking place, when in reality there is not.
 
kelvinf said:
Mortal sin = mortal sin does not mean that they are basically the same or that they have the same effects. .
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I’m sorry I was under the impression that all mortal sin sends you to hell if it goes unconfessed. 🤷 Thanks for clearing that one up. I’m done with this convo.
 
PetrusRomanus said:
Unjust discrimination is wrong, agreed.

Choosing not to violate our conscience by giving them any sort of tacit approval for their actions is right. Business or no business. Baking a cake for a gay wedding (which is actions) is giving tacit approval, since youre acknowledging that a wedding is even taking place, when in reality there is not.
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In order for your argument to be consistent, you would have to investigate the future spouses in the manner that the Church does in order to make sure their wedding is valid; i.e., baptismal status, whether or not they the parties are Catholic, whether they are free to marry, whether or not diriment impediments exist, etc. Because if a heterosexual couple comes in the door and order and you make a cake for them, and it turns out one is Catholic and is marrying outside of the Church without dispensation, then you’ve just given tacit approval to this invalid marriage. If you don’t do this, any competent attorney would chew up your argument and spit it out in a court of law.

Once again, there is a difference between working with the general public and a private organization. If you want to avoid these situations, go work directly for the Church. If not, you have to deal with the laws that apply to the general public.
 
TheWarriorMonk said:
In order for your argument to be consistent, you would have to investigate the future spouses in the manner that the Church does in order to make sure their wedding is valid; i.e., baptismal status, whether or not they the parties are Catholic, whether they are free to marry, whether or not diriment impediments exist, etc. Because if a heterosexual couple comes in the door and order and you make a cake for them, and it turns out one is Catholic and is marrying outside of the Church without dispensation, then you’ve just given tacit approval to this invalid marriage. If you don’t do this, any competent attorney would chew up your argument and spit it out in a court of law.

Once again, there is a difference between working with the general public and a private organization. If you want to avoid these situations, go work directly for the Church. If not, you have to deal with the laws that apply to the general public.
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👍👍👍
 
Daizies said:
There have been several threads lately about Christian business owners refusing service to same sex couples based on their religious convictions. There seems to be a lot of support for this concept.

This led me to think of something I had read about in the news, about Muslim cab drivers refusing to take passengers who carry alcohol with them on the grounds that they will be punished in the afterlife for transporting alcohol. (This is from 2006/7, but I think is a good comparison. Links here, here, and here)

My question is, if you support the right of Christians to refuse service to same sex couples on the basis of religious objections, would you also support the right of Muslim taxi drivers to refuse to take passengers who are transporting alcohol on the basis of religious objections? If not, why?
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Yes I would wholeheartedly support that Muslims right. There are other taxis to ferry me about town.
 
As you have already been told, skin colour is not the same thing as sexual orientation. But again, freedom of religion always applies. Individuals providing services that are not neccessities are free to operate according to their conscience. When this is not observed, you would have what you have in the US where the govt forces religious organisations to provide services that violate their conscience. This is what would happen when we start compromising on religious liberties.
 
TheWarriorMonk said:
In order for your argument to be consistent, you would have to investigate the future spouses in the manner that the Church does in order to make sure their wedding is valid; i.e., baptismal status, whether or not they the parties are Catholic, whether they are free to marry, whether or not diriment impediments exist, etc. Because if a heterosexual couple comes in the door and order and you make a cake for them, and it turns out one is Catholic and is marrying outside of the Church without dispensation, then you’ve just given tacit approval to this invalid marriage. If you don’t do this, any competent attorney would chew up your argument and spit it out in a court of law.

Once again, there is a difference between working with the general public and a private organization. If you want to avoid these situations, go work directly for the Church. If not, you have to deal with the laws that apply to the general public.
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Yes!

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
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