Refuting Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, and Other Protestant Doctrines

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Old_Scholar said:
In Irenæus’ day, this was pretty much true but any “successors” of the Apostles did not receive their special powers. How many do you know that have raised the dead and performed the same type miracles? There is no one infallible today. That all died with the last of the 12.
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Whooooa…slow down there, hoss.

In post #16, you challenged CatholicDude to provide quotes from Irenaeus concerning Apostolic Succession.

In post #17, CatholicDude declined due to time constraints.

In post #19, I provided the quotes you asked for.

In post #25, you mocked CatholicDude for not providing the quotes.

And now in post #29, you failed to deal with the quote from Irenaeus that you requested. You’re simply blowing it off.

What gives? 🤷
 
Old_Scholar said:
In Irenæus’ day, this was pretty much true but any “successors” of the Apostles did not receive their special powers. How many do you know that have raised the dead and performed the same type miracles? There is no one infallible today. That all died with the last of the 12.
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Is this merely an assertion or do you have something to back up your claim?

Tell me, where does the Bible teach that Apostolic Succession ended with the death of the last Apostle?

Or do you know this from Tradition?

And if you accept this as a doctrine that is binding upon all believers–that is, all true believers must accept that public revelation and apostolic succession ended with the death of the last Apostle–and this doctrine is not found within the pages of scripture itself, then you contradict the doctrine of sola scriptura because you accept the Scriptures AND this non-scriptural doctrine.

Thoughts?
 
Old_Scholar said:
Faith always produces works. Works doesn’t produce faith. James is telling us that if faith doesn’t produce works, then faith is dead. There is no mystery here. We are told much more specifically the truth; there is nothing you can do that will save you:

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
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Actually, it doesn’t say that if faith doesn’t produce good works it is dead. It says in james 2:17 “so faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.” I don’t see the word produce anywhere in that verse nor does it say that faith produces good works. They go hand in hand. Checkout v. 26! “For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.” You can’t seperate the body from the spirit.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Is this merely an assertion or do you have something to back up your claim?

Tell me, where does the Bible teach that Apostolic Succession ended with the death of the last Apostle?

Or do you know this from Tradition?

And if you accept this as a doctrine that is binding upon all believers–that is, all true believers must accept that public revelation and apostolic succession ended with the death of the last Apostle–and this doctrine is not found within the pages of scripture itself, then you contradict the doctrine of sola scriptura because you accept the Scriptures AND this non-scriptural doctrine.

Thoughts?
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I’m interested to hear what the “Old Scholar” has to say about this!
 
Randy_Carson said:
Whooooa…slow down there, hoss.

In post #16, you challenged CatholicDude to provide quotes from Irenaeus concerning Apostolic Succession.

In post #17, CatholicDude declined due to time constraints.

In post #19, I provided the quotes you asked for.

In post #25, you mocked CatholicDude for not providing the quotes.

And now in post #29, you failed to deal with the quote from Irenaeus that you requested. You’re simply blowing it off.

What gives? 🤷
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At this point, he’s simply avoiding the evidence you provided.
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
ur a “non-Protestant” eh? Do you mind explaining why you are not a protestant?
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Some time back, in the dawn of my questioning of his credentials and position, his profile said “protestant”. Poof! He’s the new, improved non-everything Old Scholar! I do not believe he ever divulged the name or type of his sect. All we know is that he stands on paper and ink, rather than Body and Blood.
 
Old_Scholar said:
You however do not mention that the Scripture itself tells us that it is sufficient for all things…
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Oh, really! I would love to see that! You are certainly NOT speaking of:

2 Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,”

It says “All Scripture” NOT “Scripture is all”

You used the word “typical” in a recent post. Exactly: This is typical sola scriptura error.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Whooooa…slow down there, hoss.

In post #16, you challenged CatholicDude to provide quotes from Irenaeus concerning Apostolic Succession.

In post #17, CatholicDude declined due to time constraints.

In post #19, I provided the quotes you asked for.

In post #25, you mocked CatholicDude for not providing the quotes.

And now in post #29, you failed to deal with the quote from Irenaeus that you requested. You’re simply blowing it off.

What gives? 🤷
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Not true! I asked for quotes relating to the succession of the Apostles and the office of Pope but that didn’t come.

Read carefully what Irenæus had to say. Never once did he say the office of Apostle was handed down. He says the Apostles ordained Bishops and the Bishops succeeded each other on down the line. He doesn’t give anyone any special Apostleship. No one had the power they did then and no one does today.

Irenæus also wrote of the handing down of the Rome Church of the episcopate to successors but that also happened at the other churches of that time. There were five churches all with equal power then and no one was above another. The office of what is today called the “Pope” didn’t come until the 5th century.

As for apostles being appointed, this word is being used in an acadmic sense only and refers to the meaning of the word, messenger, not the office of the Apostles as instituted by Christ Himself. Those Apostles were of a special type and there was a reason why Christ appointed only twelve. That office ended when the last one died and there are none living today or have lived since. Those Apostles could raise from the dead and do marvelous, miraculous things—that hasn’t been done since.
 
Old_Scholar said:
The only one true church. If you are a believer in Christ and what He taught through the Apostles, then you are a member of the body of Christ’s Church. Christ is the Head. There is no other.
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so where does one find this church to worship in?
 
Randy_Carson said:
Is this merely an assertion or do you have something to back up your claim?

Tell me, where does the Bible teach that Apostolic Succession ended with the death of the last Apostle?

Or do you know this from Tradition?

And if you accept this as a doctrine that is binding upon all believers–that is, all true believers must accept that public revelation and apostolic succession ended with the death of the last Apostle–and this doctrine is not found within the pages of scripture itself, then you contradict the doctrine of sola scriptura because you accept the Scriptures AND this non-scriptural doctrine.

Thoughts?
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The burden is not mine to prove these things did not happen. It is upon you to prove that they did. The only thing you have to prove that, is a tradition that came hundreds of years after the Apostles lived.

There has been no Apostolic succession.
 
Old_Scholar said:
The burden is not mine to prove these things did not happen. It is upon you to prove that they did. The only thing you have to prove that, is a tradition that came hundreds of years after the Apostles lived.

There has been no Apostolic succession.
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Actually, the question is simple:

Do you believe that public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle? Yes or No

Catholics say Yes.
 
Old_Scholar said:
The burden is not mine to prove these things did not happen. It is upon you to prove that they did. The only thing you have to prove that, is a tradition that came hundreds of years after the Apostles lived.

There has been no Apostolic succession.
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So where did Peter throw the keys before he died?
 
Old_Scholar said:
Members of this church are found in many denominations, including yours.
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Okay.

Then I would like to ask you this question:

Is doctrine important in the church which contains many denominations, or is conflicting and contradictory doctrine acceptable?
 
Old_Scholar said:
Members of this church are found in many denominations, including yours.
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Did Paul say anything about doctrine being important? Yes he did. Did he say that we can have conflicting doctrine? No, he said the opposite. Jesus said that He desired for us to be one as He and the Father are one. Tell me do you think Jesus and the Father have conflicting doctrines?
 
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