Reload this Page BAHA'I thread IV - feel free to ask of Baha'i any questions

[PRmerger]

I’ll be happy to, Servant, but first of all, what is your position? You state that Jesus never said he was God. Then you say that no one denies that he said he was God including all Baha’is. Which is it?

 

[Servant19]

John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” [9] Jesus answered: "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father’? [10] Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”

John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

John 10:37-38 [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

Matthew 27:43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’"

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name–the name you gave me–so that they may be one as we are one.

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” [33] “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

First of all, my apologies to you Steve for not making myself clear, and here you are doing a whole load of referencing for me…thankyou for that
My question was one of curiosity to see if there was a “distinction” made by Jesus between calling Himself God or the Father.

I see nothing there where Jesus says that He is God, rather than the Father.

Is there a distinction then between God and the Father in the Trinitarian doctrine, and if so what is it?

I only ask this because as a Baha’i I have never seen a distinction between God and the Father, but to all external attempts to understand, it seems as though there is this distinction in the Trinitarian doctrine…

I hope that makes sense, its still very early (I slept late last night zzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

 

[Servant19]

Servant,

I know you are busy … but can you try answering post 656…

Thanks,

Pork

My sincere apologies Pork. I’m never too busy for you dear one
I must’ve tought that the answers given by other Baha’is in relation to the Covenant was sufficient an answer, my mistake

I will just post your question up again here and try to answer you, to the best of my personal understanding and again, I don’t think there is necessarily official Baha’i teaching on what you ask, simply because a Covenant is seen slightly differently, but here goes:

Servant,

Try filling in the blanks for Baha’u’llah as it would provide clarity to your thoughts on how God has revealed himself in a greater way than Jesus Christ (your words I believe). The theological thinking below is a common way to understand God’s revelation and relationship to man over time.

Covenant Type _________________
Covenant Promise ___________
Covenant Sign __________________

There have been lamps sent by God. And God has always made a covenant promise with each of them and a covenant sign. Below by covenant type, promise and sign

Adam … …marraige…promise of redemption …s abbath
Noah … …household …promise of no future flood … …the rainbow
Abraham…tribe…promise of the seed to outnumber the stars…circumcision
Moses…nation…promise of land for obediance…pas sover
David…kingdom…promise of eternal future kingdom & messiah…throne
Jesus… Catholic Church/world…promise of eternal life & resurrection…the Eucharist
Baha’u’llah …?..?.. … …?

Adam … …marraige…promise of redemption …s abbath
Noah … …household …promise of no future flood … …the rainbow
Abraham…tribe…promise of the seed to outnumber the stars…circumcision
Moses…nation…promise of land for obediance…pas sover
David…kingdom…promise of eternal future kingdom & messiah…throne
Jesus… Catholic Church/world…promise of eternal life & resurrection…the Eucharist

Baha’u’llah …world…promise of the unification of the human race…Divine Institutions

I hope that is all you asked for?

Please realise that the Divine Institutions are (according to Baha’is) as much revered and as much cherished as the Eucharist is to Catholics.

 

[daler]

John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” [9] Jesus answered: "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father’? [10] Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

For Baha’is, the Mirror Image of God is present in the Manifestation. That is Who and What He is, an earthly Image of God: “These are not My (the Mirror’s) Words, but Him that sent Me.”

“The Son (Mirror) can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father (the Sun) do.”

. So I am left saying that God cannot be measured and weighed, as the Mirror (Jesus, etc) can be, whether as a baby = 6 lbs 5 oz, or an adolescent = 5 foot 2 inches, 95 pounds, or as an adult = 5 foot 7, 145 pounds, etc. <<<— “That” which can be weighed and measured is “Not” God.

. I still have trouble with the language of "God in three “Persons” ", as it reduces God to “one of us”, if you understand my meaning.

. As to the Alpha and the Omega, Lord Krsna also said that, as did Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha’u’llah. Personally, I think that God is saying “I am the Alpha and the Omega” utilizing these Souls as a speaker through which one speaks as to a microphone. That imagery works better for me, as it still recognizes that God is infinitely beyond my comprehension, while I can at least relate, or connect on some level, with the Person of the Divine Manifestation.

 

[daler]

Daler,

You make it sound here as if Baha’u’llah is legitimate already. That is yet to be proven. So quoting Baha’u’llah to me or even quoting Jesus to me does not help.

On the matter of quoting Jesus, may I also point out that you are first using translations and you are also interpreting his words. Your interpretations do clash with the interpretation of those who heard and learned directly from him and the first Apostles. So it seems to me like you want to take this line of discussion, you have to first acquaint yourself with Christianity. What you will realize after you have done that is that quoting the words of Jesus in the way you do does not help unless you have a Church father or Church teaching to back it up.

So don’t get too involved with Christianity. Baha’u’llah’s legitimacy stands or falls on his merits alone.

First thing we should get past is on clarifying if you understand that Baha’u’llah’s teachings cannot justify him as from beyond. This is why Albert Einstein’s brilliant intellect doesn’t make us think he is God-ly and possesses knowledge of the transcendent.

Jaber,
. With all respect intended sincerely for the position of your own beliefs, I have my own, and we are viewing through our own eyes and forming different conclusions. For “me”, Baha’u’llah has already proven Himself, through His verses, as well as hundreds of prophecies, cross checked and referenced, from multiple sources, i.e. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Native American.

. You sound as though there is some sort of competition between the Prophets (real Ones) of God, while the Baha’i position is that

“All the Prophets proclaim the same Faith”

Saul was a “loyal Jew” who despised Christ and persecuted His followers. That is, until he had his vision on the road to Damascus. He then went to the Jews and told them that “Messiah has come!”

This is what the Baha’is are saying, that the promised Return has happened, of which Jesus and the Prophets spoke. Is it to be unexpected that the same rejection should take place among many of the followers of the former religion? It is not. We suffer the same slings and arrows of the early followers of Jesus, Moses, etc. The pattern repeats itself in every age, and the denials are similar, usually with little or no real and objective investigation among the most emotional of deniers, despite abundant proofs offered.

The Jews still cannot “see” Christ as the Messiah. Only those “who have eyes to see”

 

[tonyfish58]

My sincere apologies Pork. I’m never too busy for you dear one
I must’ve tought that the answers given by other Baha’is in relation to the Covenant was sufficient an answer, my mistake

I will just post your question up again here and try to answer you, to the best of my personal understanding and again, I don’t think there is necessarily official Baha’i teaching on what you ask, simply because a Covenant is seen slightly differently, but here goes:

Adam … …marraige…promise of redemption …s abbath
Noah … …household …promise of no future flood … …the rainbow
Abraham…tribe…promise of the seed to outnumber the stars…circumcision
Moses…nation…promise of land for obediance…pas sover
David…kingdom…promise of eternal future kingdom & messiah…throne
Jesus… Catholic Church/world…promise of eternal life & resurrection…the Eucharist

Baha’u’llah …world…promise of the unification of the human race…Divine Institutions

I hope that is all you asked for?

Please realise that the Divine Institutions are (according to Baha’is) as much revered and as much cherished as the Eucharist is to Catholics.

Servant19 - I might give that a go too

Adam … …marraige…promise of redemption …s abbath
Noah … …household …promise of no future flood … …the rainbow
Abraham…tribe…promise of the seed to outnumber the stars…circumcision
Moses…nation…promise of land for obediance…pas sover
David…kingdom…promise of eternal future kingdom & messiah…throne
Jesus… Catholic Church/world…promise of eternal life & resurrection…the Eucharist

Baha’u’llah …Fulfillment…Foundations for One God One Faith…Divine Institutions

It would be interesting to put the Bab in there as well, IMHO - This could be also interesting…

Bab…Universal…Door to fulfillment…Keys to understanding !!!

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” [9] Jesus answered: "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father’? [10] Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”

John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

John 10:37-38 [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

Matthew 27:43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’"

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name–the name you gave me–so that they may be one as we are one.

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” [33] “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

The above passages can be viewed in a different manner if the following is considered

The Bahá’í Writings contain many passages that elucidate the nature of the Manifestation and His relationship to God. Bahá’u’lláh underlines the unique and transcendent nature of the Godhead. He explains that “since there can be no tie of direct intercourse to bind the one true God with His creation” God ordains that “in every age and dispensation a pure and stainless Soul be made manifest in the kingdoms of earth and heaven”. This “mysterious and ethereal Being”, the Manifestation of God, has a human nature which pertains to “the world of matter” and a spiritual nature “born of the substance of God Himself”. He is also endowed with a “double station”:

The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself… The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”

Bahá’u’lláh also affirms that, in the spiritual realm, there is an “essential unity” between all the Manifestations of God. They all reveal the “Beauty of God”, manifest His names and attributes, and give utterance to His Revelation. In this regard, He states:

Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God”, He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His names and His attributes, are made manifest in the world…

While the Manifestations reveal the names and attributes of God and are the means by which humanity has access to the knowledge of God and His Revelation, Shoghi Effendi states that the Manifestations should “never … be identified with that invisible Reality, the Essence of Divinity itself”. In relation to Bahá’u’lláh, the Guardian wrote that the “human temple that has been the vehicle of so overpowering a Revelation” is not to be identified with the “Reality” of God.

Concerning the uniqueness of Bahá’u’lláh’s station and the greatness of His Revelation, Shoghi Effendi affirms that the prophetic statements concerning the “Day of God”, found in the Sacred Scriptures of past Dispensations, are fulfilled by the advent of Bahá’u’lláh:

To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the “Everlasting Father”, the “Lord of Hosts” come down “with ten thousands of saints”; to Christendom Christ returned “in the glory of the Father”; to Shí’ah Islám the return of the Imám Ḥusayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the “Spirit of God” (Jesus Christ); to the Zoroastrians the promised Sháh-Bahrám; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha.

Bahá’u’lláh describes the station of “Divinity” which He shares with all the Manifestations of God as

…the station in which one dieth to himself and liveth in God. Divinity, whenever I mention it, indicateth My complete and absolute self-effacement. This is the station in which I have no control over mine own weal or woe nor over my life nor over my resurrection.

And, regarding His own relationship to God, He testifies:

When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things “verily I am God”; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!

Regards Tony

 

[SteveVH]

First of all, my apologies to you Steve for not making myself clear, and here you are doing a whole load of referencing for me…thankyou for that
My question was one of curiosity to see if there was a “distinction” made by Jesus between calling Himself God or the Father.

I see nothing there where Jesus says that He is God, rather than the Father.

If you understood even the most basic principles of the doctrine of the Trinity you would not ask such a question. I do not say this to belittle you in any way, but rather to urge you to at least do a minimal amount of research if you wish to discuss this doctrine.

Of course Jesus never said that he was God rather than the Father. He is God with the Father and with the Holy Spirit. They are distinct, but not separate.

I think the problem here is that you anthropomorphize the nature of God. While this is a natural tendency you must understand that He is not like us. We are human. God is divine. God is eternally Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Each of the “Persons” are entirely God and the only distinction between them is one of relationship. A mystery? You bet. We have nothing in the human experience that we can compare to the nature of God.

Is there a distinction then between God and the Father in the Trinitarian doctrine, and if so what is it?

I only ask this because as a Baha’i I have never seen a distinction between God and the Father, but to all external attempts to understand, it seems as though there is this distinction in the Trinitarian doctrine…

I hope that makes sense, its still very early (I slept late last night zzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

The Father is God, whole and entire.
Jesus is God, whole and entire.
The Holy Spirit is God, whole and entire.

Yet there are not three Gods, but one. Therein lies the mystery as well as the uniqueness of Christian theology concerning the nature of God.

 

[SteveVH]

I’ll be happy to, Servant, but first of all, what is your position? You state that Jesus never said he was God. Then you say that no one denies that he said he was God including all Baha’is. Which is it?

Servant, I am still waiting for you to address this apparent contradiction.

 

[aragonjohn1]

Hi all you are very busy on these threads and the last one closed out before I could reply to a question that I gave thought to and a friend supplied a point.

It was on the Martyrdom of the Bab. This topic showing why miracles are a touchy subject.

My friend offered a solution that he noticed Shoghi Effendi would do when these questions arise, that is the accuracy of a story.

This is the story - Link - reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/TN/tn-2.html

During the course of the events which took place at Zanján the Prime Minister devised a final and trenchant remedy. Without the royal command, without consulting with the ministers of the subject-protecting court, he, acting with arbitrary disposition, fixed determination, and entirely on his own authority, issued commands to put the Báb to death. This befell in brief as follows. The governor of Ádhirbayján, Prince Hamzih Mírzá, was unwilling that the execution capable and competent. I had imagined that His Excellency the Regent would commission me to make war on the Afghans or Uzbegs or appoint me to attack and invade the territory of Russia or Turkey.” So Mírzá Hasan Khán wrote his excuse in detail to the Amír.
ack square of Tabríz, confined Him in a cell, and appointed forty of the Christian soldiers of two ropes volleys. From the fire of these volleys a mighty smoke was produced. When the smoke cleared away they saw that young man standing and the Báb seated by the side of His amanuensis Áqá Siyyid Husayn in the very cell from the staircase of which they had suspended them. To neither one of them had the slightest injury resulted.
Sám Khán the Christian asked to be excused; the turn of service came to another regiment, and the chief of the farráshes withheld his hand. Áqá Ján Big of Khamsíh, colonel of the bodyguard, advanced; and they again bound the Báb together with that young man to the same nail. The Báb uttered certain words which those few who knew Persian understood, while the rest heard but the sound of His voice.
The colonel of the regiment appeared in person: and it was before noon on the twenty-eighth day of Sha’bán in the year [A.H.] one thousand two hundred and sixty-six. 1 Suddenly he gave orders to fire. At this volley the bullets produced such an effect that the breasts [of the victims] were riddled, and their limbs were completely dissected, except their faces, which were but little marred.
CONTINUES IN NEW POST…

As one can see it is mostly as we know the story today and this was sent to other Historians. One would presume that those same people inquired into how many riflemen were in a regiment at that time and added this to their stories?

This is the story that will endure as scripture. IMHO

So if you have any more questions please ask.

Regards Tony

what are the main or recommended writings or practices of ba’hai?

is there a difference between being immoral, moral, or amoral; and if so what is considered healthy or not healthy and/or lukewarm?

are you based on any religions or do borrow “truths” from other religions?

how many gods or do You have something like unto one loving God?

thank Y’all

God bless

 

[SteveVH]

For Baha’is, the Mirror Image of God is present in the Manifestation. That is Who and What He is, an earthly Image of God: “These are not My (the Mirror’s) Words, but Him that sent Me.”

So you believe that Jesus is a mirror, but not the One standing in front of the mirror. Is that accurate?

“The Son (Mirror) can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father (the Sun) do.”

Yes, because there is only one God. For Christ to do anything not willed by the Father would be a contradiction of himself. There is only one divine will because there is only one God.

. So I am left saying that God cannot be measured and weighed, as the Mirror (Jesus, etc) can be, whether as a baby = 6 lbs 5 oz, or an adolescent = 5 foot inches, 95 pounds, or as an adult = 5 foot 7, 145 pounds, etc. <<<— “That” which can be weighed and measured is “Not” God.

According to who? It is true that that which can be weighed and measured is not “spirit”. But God became man by assuming human flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ. Jesus was 100% God and 100% human.

I still have trouble with the language of "God in three “Persons” ", as it reduces God to “one of us”, if you understand my meaning.

This is understandable. I believe you are equating the term “Person” with the term “Human Being”. Yet the term extends beyond the human being to angels and the divine Persons of the Trinity. These philosophical terms were defined in the 4th and 5th centuries by the Church in order to have a basis for discussing the nature of God in light of the revelation of Christ.

As to the Alpha and the Omega, Lord Krsna also said that, as did Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha’u’llah.

Well, daler, I could claim the same thing. So what? If I make the claim that I am the Alpha and the Omega does that somehow undermine the words of Christ? No, it just makes me either delusional or a liar.

I am curious, however, as to your statement that Muhammad said this. Please give your source.

Personally, I think that God is saying “I am the Alpha and the Omega” utilizing these Souls as a speaker through which one speaks as to a microphone. That imagery works better for me, as it still recognizes that God is infinitely beyond my comprehension, while I can at least relate, or connect on some level, with the Person of the Divine Manifestation.

I think it is better to seek Truth than to find imagery that works better for one, even if that truth cannot be completely comprehended.

 

[SteveVH]

The above passages can be viewed in a different manner if the following is considered

And, regarding His own relationship to God, He testifies:

When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things “verily I am God”; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!

Regards Tony

So is Baha’u’llah speaking to himself? He prays to God and then claims to be God himself, does he not?

 

[Nick44]

So is Baha’u’llah speaking to himself? He prays to God and then claims to be God himself, does he not?

The Manifestations, in relation to God in His Essence, are not God.

The Manifestations, in relation to humans on earth, are God.

Absent the appearance of the Manifestations on earth, we would have no knowledge of God whatsoever since there can never be a direct tie between the Essence of God and the creation. The Manifestations of God are the mediators between the two and impart God’s will by their very persons, teachings and writings.

 

[SteveVH]

The Manifestations, in relation to God in His Essence, are not God.

The Manifestations, in relation to humans on earth, are God.

Say what? I think the entire notion of various “manifestations” of God has you confused. One is either God or one is not. More accurately, God is God and we are not. Divinity is not dependent upon human perception. Neither Muhammad, nor the Bab, nor Baha’u’llah, nor Moses, nor Abraham, nor Noah are God. They are his creatures. Jesus, however, is God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father.

Absent the appearance of the Manifestations on earth, we would have no knowledge of God whatsoever since there can never be a direct tie between the Essence of God and the creation.

Jesus Christ is the union of God with man. He is the direct tie between God and his creation.

 

[Nick44]

Say what? I think the entire notion of various “manifestations” of God has you confused. One is either God or one is not. More accurately, God is God and we are not. Divinity is not dependent upon human perception. Neither Muhammad, nor the Bab, nor Baha’u’llah, nor Moses, nor Abraham, nor Noah are God. They are his creatures. Jesus, however, is God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father.

Jesus Christ is the union of God with man. He is the direct tie between God and his creation.

You asked if Baha’u’llah was praying to Himself.
Post #717 contains Baha’u’llah’s explanation of the relationship(s) between God in His Essence, His Manifestations, and us.

 

[SteveVH]

You asked if Baha’u’llah was praying to Himself.
Post #717 contains Baha’u’llah’s explanation of the relationship(s) between God in His Essence, His Manifestations, and us.

Yes I know. That s what I quoted from.

 

[tonyfish58]

what are the main or recommended writings or practices of ba’hai?

is there a difference between being immoral, moral, or amoral; and if so what is considered healthy or not healthy and/or lukewarm?

are you based on any religions or do borrow “truths” from other religions?

how many gods or do You have something like unto one loving God?

thank Y’all

God bless

aragonjohn1 - Thank you for the questions

There are a lot of writings in the Baha’i Faith and there are a still a lot yet to be translated. The main works can be found here - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ - This link is to the Kitáb-i-Íqán, which is an important work if one wants to know how all religions are One.

Yes there is degrees of Morality and as you can appreciate as lovers of God we are called to the Higher degree of Morality. What I would consider to be healthy is that one strives with all their being to obtain to the highest Morality. Where a person is on this scale then becomes a issue between them and God. It is not up to me to Judge another!

There are no borrowed Truths. Truth is one and that is God. Truth only varies because of out limited understanding. It is because of our Limited understanding that God sends His messengers to remind us of our Purpose, that is to Know and Love God. To do this we have to know our true selves. All religions have their foundations in the Faith that came before them. This is called progressive revelation. As man understands more, more religious concepts are laid out in front of him.

There is only one God - The God of all Faiths. That they differ is only because our limited understanding.

Hope that answers your questions

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

So is Baha’u’llah speaking to himself? He prays to God and then claims to be God himself, does he not?

I think this subject has been explained enough, do you not think so?

You have a wonderful Mysterious Unexplained Trinity and we have explained another meaning for the Trinity through the Sun and Mirror analogy. If you use your Trinity for Baha’u’llah I guess the answer you are looking for is within that concept.

Bahá’u’lláh also affirms that, in the spiritual realm, there is an “essential unity” between all the Manifestations of God. They all reveal the “Beauty of God”, manifest His names and attributes, and give utterance to His Revelation. In this regard, He states:

Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God”, He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His names and His attributes, are made manifest in the world…

While the Manifestations reveal the names and attributes of God and are the means by which humanity has access to the knowledge of God and His Revelation, Shoghi Effendi states that the Manifestations should “never … be identified with that invisible Reality, the Essence of Divinity itself”. In relation to Bahá’u’lláh, the Guardian wrote that the “human temple that has been the vehicle of so overpowering a Revelation” is not to be identified with the “Reality” of God.

Regards Tony

 

[arthra]

Aragon John asked about the Baha’i Writings and Tony referred to

reference.bahai.org/en/

You can find English translations of the Arabic and Farsi and the Writings in Arabic and Farsi… there is also a search engine so you can see topically what the Writings have.

There also a good introductory book that’s been a classic introduction to the Baha’i Faith for many years at

bahai-library.org/books/new.era/

and is also at

reference.bahai.org/en/t/je/BNE/

 

[Servant19]

So is Baha’u’llah speaking to himself? He prays to God and then claims to be God himself, does he not?

Did Jesus not pray to God on the cross before He drew His last breath?