Reload this Page BAHA'I thread IV - feel free to ask of Baha'i any questions

[rinnie]

That is a good question.

The first two parts of your question could both be answered with a yes.

It is the fulfillment of all the previous Divinely Inspired Religions and at the same time the latest process in the unfolding of Gods Word for mankind. We are told their will be another Prophet after the full expiration of a Thousand years and that the Baha’i Dispensation will last for at lease 500,000 years. (I will be corrected if this time line is incorrect, I took it from memory).

If one looks at religion up to date, The heralds of those religions (Christ being one of these) all tell us that God has more to say unto us and that He would send another to bring about the Day of God on Earth. We beleive that Baha’u’llah is that Prophet.

It is called Progressive revelation, each Prophet bringing a message suited to that particular time and able to progress man to the next level of knowledge.

So you asked “Does God have some sort of personality disorder”? One could conclude that looking at the mess we have made of this world, or we could put the blame justly to where it truly lies, and that is with/on man. We have this thing called Free Will which requires a great deal of freedom to exercise it. The world is a powerhouse of Opposites and this is how it all works, including us. Thus we must use our free will to do good and this has always been the message of the Prophets.

Can we blame a parent that has given their children all the best advice available and then the child chooses to do wrong? This is a complex issue with many years of meditations to pursue. The first two Hidden Words of Baha’u’llah are worth thinking about and applicable to your questions. Link to all - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/HW/

O SON OF SPIRIT! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting.

O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.

Regards Tony

Actually Jesus gave that another as you state as the Holy Spirit to guide us, and he indeed came on the day of Pentecost to guide the Church.

 

[rinnie]

Hi Tony,

I never heard of Baha’i until now . I had to Google it. I found it interesting that in Baha’i they teach -

"…the unity of religion, that all major religions have the same spiritual source and come from the same God;…"

How could it be from the “same source” if the religions disagree? What if one religion considers a certain behavior a sin and the other doesn’t?.. The same goes for Sacraments and so on???

The reason why there are so many different religions and so many different denominations is that they disagree, sometimes on major issues. So, where is the “unity of religion”? What if one religion believes that members of another religion should “convert or die” ?

As, you can see, I can go on and on… there are probably many beliefs found in Baha’i that as a Christian I could agree with but that’s true with other religions. It seems to me that the “unity” described in Baha’i comes down to, those who adhere to the beliefs found in Baha’i and in that sense, Baha’i isn’t any different than any other religion that disagrees with the truth found in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, the only true religion. Right?

I look forward to your response.

Thank you.

My biggest question is where is Baha’i in the Holy Trinity. He is not the God the Father, nor Christ the Son, nor the Holy Spirit. So how is Baha"i God?

I have asked this previous but still have not got an answer.

 

[rinnie]

Yes I’m aware of the doctrine of your church …which we do not share. You’re aware I believe that we do not accept the doctrine of original sin… The immaculacy we talk about is being innocent of the charges or suspicions of those around her. we don’t believe she was immaculately conceived.

Okay so then she has the stain of original sin. Although as stated you deny original sin does not make it a false teaching.

Now I am curious you state Abraham was like Baha"i but yet Abraham was held in hades until the death of Christ who released him.

Now how do you explain why Abraham was held in hades in the O,T.?

 

[SteveVH]

My biggest question is where is Baha’i in the Holy Trinity. He is not the God the Father, nor Christ the Son, nor the Holy Spirit. So how is Baha"i God?

I have asked this previous but still have not got an answer.

The name of their Prophet is not Baha’i, but rather Baha’u’llah. They believe that he is the second coming of Christ. They do not have the same understanding of the Trinity (though they profess to believe it).

 

[frazelle09]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
My biggest question is where is Baha’i in the Holy Trinity. He is not the God the Father, nor Christ the Son, nor the Holy Spirit. So how is Baha"i God?

"I have asked this previous but still have not got an answer.
The name of their Prophet is not Baha’i, but rather Baha’u’llah. They believe that he is the second coming of Christ. They do not have the same understanding of the Trinity (though they profess to believe it). "

Thank you, SteveVH.

Have a great morning!

 

[Nick44]

Actually Jesus gave that another as you state as the Holy Spirit to guide us, and he indeed came on the day of Pentecost to guide the Church.

All of the great revealed religions promise in their scriptures of a time when there would be “peace on earth”, “one fold and one shepherd”, “swords into pruning hooks”; a golden age of civilization that would go from increase to increase. Baha’is believe that God has sent Baha’u’llah to inaugurate that cycle of heavenly fulfillment. Just as the earth renews itself each spring, we are taught that God renews His religion every 1,000 years, or so. Baha’u’llah didn’t come to simply add yet another religion to the mix, but to remind men that there has always been, at its basic reality, just one religion sent from one God.

Both Jesus and Baha’u’llah renewed spiritual teachings but Jesus did not deal with affairs of government (render unto Caesar) while Baha’u’llah did in great detail (and the government shall be upon His shoulders). Both taught to the level of the people to receive.

These changes never happen in a miraculously imposed flash, as God always preserves free will, but in a slow grind with lots of pitfalls and tribulations along the way.

 

[SteveVH]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
My biggest question is where is Baha’i in the Holy Trinity. He is not the God the Father, nor Christ the Son, nor the Holy Spirit. So how is Baha"i God?

"I have asked this previous but still have not got an answer.
The name of their Prophet is not Baha’i, but rather Baha’u’llah. They believe that he is the second coming of Christ. They do not have the same understanding of the Trinity (though they profess to believe it). "

Thank you, SteveVH.

Have a great morning!

By the way, in order to prevent confusion as to who has said what, it is good to place the words to which you are responding in quote boxes. You can do this very simply:

Begin with

, enter the text, and end with

.

 

[SteveVH]

Originally Posted by rinnie

No problem. It would help if you could separate the different quotes so that we know who said what (as I have done above). It’s easy to get confused otherwise.

Welcome to CAF and I hope you have a great morning as well.

 

[daler]

My biggest question is where is Baha’i in the Holy Trinity. He is not the God the Father, nor Christ the Son, nor the Holy Spirit. So how is Baha"i God?

I have asked this previous but still have not got an answer.

Rinnie,
. Please allow me to do my best to clarify my understanding of the Baha’i view of what is commonly referred to as the Trinity, a term which we do not normally use, but which has useful application for explanation of the relationship between God, His Messengers, and the Holy Spirit.

. Baha’is view God as infinitely beyond corporeal existence, His ultimate essence and reality is beyond the comprehension of men. What can be comprehended by men is the Word of God sent to us from age to age to reflect His glory and show us the Way, His Way for us, that we may live according to His Laws and submit our free-will to His will in obedience to Him, and thus grow and blossom as the fruits of His vineyard.

. We often use the analogy of the sun, a perfect mirror, and the rays … as a metaphor for God, His Manifestation, and the Holy Spirit. So in this analogy the sun does not come down to earth, but rather a perfect mirror appears which gives us as much light as we can accept. If the sun came to earth, we would be fried to a crisp, but a dose of pure sunlight can be accepted and we may receive the light of the spirit by this means.

. Insofar as Baha’is stating that we do not identify Jesus as God, this means we say that the mirror is not the sun, although it perfectly reflects the light and heat of the sun. Also, if we gaze at the mirror, we do in fact gaze at the sun. Thus, we agree with the words of Jesus: “He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father” We believe that fully.

. So even though the mirror is not the sun, it reflects the attributes of the sun. Even though Jesus Himself, the human reality, is not God, to be in His Presence is to be in the Presence of God. We fully believe that. Do you follow?

. So even as we cannot say that God is 5 foot 6 inches tall, weighs 150 pounds (or whatever Jesus was for example) we identify the Person of the Manifestation with those physical attributes while God is beyond all physical limitations. Jesus is His representative, reflecting God’s will and teachings. “These are not My words, but Him that sent Me.” So as a Perfect Mirror of God’s will and purpose, He is the vehicle on earth which expresses to humanity God’s love and desire for us.

. When Jesus was crucified, this particular “Mirror” was broken and killed, but God was not broken and killed, and in fact the true reality of Jesus as the Christ was not broken and killed either, for His true reality existed even before His physical body was conceived “Before Abraham was, I am”. If He (Christ) was before Abraham, He was also before the physical person of “Jesus”, for Abraham was before Jesus. So His real identity existed before and apart from an earthly form.

. I hope this helps a little. Thank you.

 

[tonyfish58]

i may have missed it, but i asked the bahai to please explain to me what was missing from Jesus’ teachings that mankind needs to know about the nature of mankind, the Godhead and salvation, or, for that matter anything else that it is essential for mankind to know?

what did Jesus not reveal that human beings need to know?

are there any bahai out there who will answer that question or point me to the #'d entry that already has answered that question.

if there is more than one bit of information missing from Jesus’ teachings maybe the bahai responder might number them?

if Jesus gave mankind the fullness of truth, then nothing more is needed.

if Jesus did not give mankind the fullness of truth, it should be easy to identify what Jesus missed that made His teachings lack the fullness of truth.

Eddie - Considering I did give you an answer only a couple of posts above this reply, is in itself an answer to your question. This needs to be thought about. Consider, is one asking questions already knowing the answer they will supply, or is one asking the question to gain more understanding?

I noticed you have replied to another answer given and think that we are insulting you good works as a Catholic. This is not correct. I applaud your Love for Christ, I applaud your Steadfast Faith and you are free to continue as you wish!

Consider the Challenge comes from Baha’u’llah, we are just Humble carriers of His Message as you are of Christs.

You keep saying “if Jesus gave mankind the fullness of truth, then nothing more is needed”. This statement ignores Christs own teachings and you would be aware of the applicable passages.

It all comes back to doctrine, did the Church get it right or wrong? The Jews still stand as strong as Christians and still wait. Will the Church do the same?

So do you want explore different interpretations of scripture that will unite us all?

Regards Tony

 

[daler]

My biggest question is where is Baha’i in the Holy Trinity. He is not the God the Father, nor Christ the Son, nor the Holy Spirit. So how is Baha"i God?

I have asked this previous but still have not got an answer.

Rinnie,
. If I may further post something from the Baha’i Writings, it elaborates more fully on this Divine Relationship between God and His Manifestations. If you want, you could read this specifically to the relationship Christ has with God, but for Baha’is, all of the Manifestations of God are expressions of God’s will at the time of Their appearance.

. "Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity. He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle.

. The essence of belief in Divine unity consisteth in regarding Him Who is the Manifestation of God and Him Who is the invisible, the inaccessible, the unknowable Essence as one and the same. By this is meant that whatever pertaineth to the former, all His acts and doings, whatever He ordaineth or forbiddeth, should be considered, in all their aspects, and under all circumstances, and without any reservation, as identical with the Will of God Himself. This is the loftiest station to which a true believer in the unity of God can ever hope to attain. Blessed is the man that reacheth this station, and is of them that are steadfast in their belief."

 

[SteveVH]

So do you want explore different interpretations of scripture that will unite us all?

Regards Tony

Hi, Tony.

We hold Truth above unity. We believe that the fullness of truth was revealed to us by Jesus Christ and divinely preserved and protected in the Church that Christ founded. This truth is taught each and every day in our Church. We need no reminders. The bottom line is that we will never sacrifice truth for unity.

 

[tonyfish58]

My biggest question is where is Baha’i in the Holy Trinity. He is not the God the Father, nor Christ the Son, nor the Holy Spirit. So how is Baha"i God?

I have asked this previous but still have not got an answer.

Steve VH has also given a reply that is accurate.

The Doctrine of the Trinity can be thought of another way and in a post above I explained this and quoted from Baha’u’llah.

There is God the Creator
There is the Holy Spirit
There is Christ

The Holy Spirit and Christ are of the Created, not God.

Christ is a perfect reflection of the Holy Spirit and thus Can say “I am the Father are one”. At the same time Christ is not God and thus says the “Father is Greater than I” or “I can do nothing but what the Father tells me”.

We the followers of that light can not obtain to that station, we can only partake of the reflection of Christ. How much we polish the mirrors of our souls to reflect Christs Light to mankind is up to us.

Thus all religions have a Trinity…

The One and only God is the Focal Point

The Holy Spirit Gods Bounty

The Messenger who is the Perfect Reflection of that Spirit.

Regards Tony

 

[daler]

Actually Jesus gave that another as you state as the Holy Spirit to guide us, and he indeed came on the day of Pentecost to guide the Church.

Rinnie,
. If you wish to study just a few pages which directly pertain to the quote from Jesus: “When He the Spirit of Truth comes”, it is addressed in the following Tablet, often referred to as “The Tablet to the Christians”, by Baha’u’llah

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-3.html

 

[tonyfish58]

Hi, Tony.

We hold Truth above unity. We believe that the fullness of truth was revealed to us by Jesus Christ and divinely preserved and protected in the Church that Christ founded. This truth is taught each and every day in our Church. We need no reminders. The bottom line is that we will never sacrifice truth for unity.

SteveVH - Good to hear from you - Thank you for a reply.

Of course you a free to do as you wish

Consider - Truth can change overnight. I have learned over the years that one must never say never God is the source of all Truth, what we do with His Truth may not be that accurate!

Could it be that history teaches us that we must be able to let go to get a fuller measure of Truth, do you think the Jews know it all? Why and how can they continue to reject Christ? If you can answer this you can reflect on our current situation!

Regards Tony

 

[frazelle09]

Someone above asked about Abraham and His being in hell until Christ’s coming. i’m trying to find a reference to this in Genesis, 11 - 25, where it talks about Abraham’s ministry, but cannot seem to find any reference that He was sent to hell after He died.

Any thoughts?

Have a great afteroon!

 

[eddie_too]

the bahai are far more like mormons than they are like any christian sect.

just as do the mormons, they use a man to justify telling us that the interpretations of sacred scripture (meaning the Holy Bible as defined by the RCC) that we received from the apostles is wrong. then they ask us to believe that the meanings they give to sacred scripture are more accurate than the ones we received from the apostles.

they then justify changing the interpretations by saying that bahaullah’s teachings require them to reject the teachings of Christ’s apostles.

the most important thing to remember is that the bahai do not believe in the faith we received from the apostles. however, they do, in a perhaps completely innocent way although a quite self-serving way, in keeping with the practices of their bahaullah, pretend that they know Christ better than the apostles knew Christ.

i would recommend that if you know people weak in their christian faith, that you help them avoid any and all encounters with a bahai.

the very fact that they reject the eternal and infinite Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, is reason enough for a christian to reject bahaullah and all that he taught. for truly, if anything bahaullah taught agrees with Jesus it is mostly by chance and not by divine inspiration. if God were involved in the teachings of bahaullah, bahaullah would have become RC.

so, i will leave you with this, the teachings of the bahai are not the teachings of the Savior of the World. whether intentionally or not, they serve to keep people away from Christ and that cannot come from God.

 

[arthra]

Eddie,

I think I’ve read your argument before…and certainly you are most welcome to your opinions and no doubt many Catholics here would likely agree with you…

I don’t think we are trying to change anything here or your beliefs… we just happen to have a different take on things.

As far as comparing Baha’is and Mormons which you seem to have stated before. all I can tell you is that Mormons do consider themselves Christians and they are also welcome to their beliefs… many of which we don’t share either.

We do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet… nor do we accept the Book of Mormon as a scripture.

*"Regarding your question concerning Joseph Smith and the ‘Book of Mormon’; 511 as the Bahá’í Teachings quite clearly outline the succession of Prophets from the days of Christ as being Muhammad, the Báb, and finally Bahá’u’lláh, it is obvious that Joseph Smith is not a Manifestation of God.

“The Bahá’ís should deal with the members of all religious sects, however, with the greatest tolerance and friendliness, and try to point out to them the significance of the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh to the world in this great Day. The Guardian would advise you to teach the Mormons like everyone else, the Faith, when you find them receptive. They have many good principles, and their teachings regarding chastity, not drinking or smoking, etc., are quite similar to ours, and should form a point of common interest.”
*
(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, August 18, 1942: Bahá’í News, No. 416, November 1965)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 510)

We also do not consider ourselves Christians or Muslims.

Baha’i Faith has had a very independent identity in the middle east from the beginning …with our revealed Writings… our sites of pilgrimage…our Calendar and ways of doing things are unlike previous dispensations…At the same time we share spirituual values and look forward to the realization of our principles which include achieving world peace, equality of men and women and abandoning racial and nationalist prejudices…

 

[SteveVH]

Steve VH has also given a reply that is accurate.

The Doctrine of the Trinity can be thought of another way and in a post above I explained this and quoted from Baha’u’llah.

There is God the Creator
There is the Holy Spirit
There is Christ

The Holy Spirit and Christ are of the Created, not God.

With no offense intended, you should understand that this statement alone, from the Christian viewpoint, identifies the Baha’i faith as a false religion.

It is also another great example of applying a false meaning to a Christian term and thereby causing confusion and miscommunication. Once again, you cannot hijack a Christian term, give a completely contradictory definition in place of the one originally intended, and then claim that you believe it in the interest of unity. Unity with falsehood is a unity I want to avoid.

In the Trinity there is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. It is a familial relationship of three divine Persons in one God. It is not God and two of his creations. Each of the divine Persons, in and of themselves are wholly and entirely God.
He is not a being like us. He is a Being beyond our grasp. What we know is only because it has been divinely revealed, not because we could attain it through human effort. And what has been revealed is that there is one God, and that this one God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. A mystery, to be certain. But then I believe the Baha’i are the first to admit that God is beyond our comprehension.

This is what escapes those who accept the Baha’i faith. Jesus is God. He is not someone like Moses or Abraham or Muhammad, or Baha’u’llah. Jesus is not a manifestation of God; he is God with us; a God that loved us so much that he became one of us while never loosing his divinity. No one is like Jesus. HE IS GOD. And to deny His divinity is a fundamental error for one seeking the truth and contradictory for one claiming to believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. The Baha’i need to get their own doctrine, and not call it the Trinity.

 

[eddie_too]

athra,

i assure you that i do understand the nature of bahai. out of one side of their mouths they say we respect all other religions and do not attack them while out of the other side of their mouths they say we are on a mission to have only one religion and that religion will be a worldwide government. no, i understand perfectly the nature of bahai. the bahai’s opening statement is one of deceit.

you see, the bahai is perfectly clear to me. it is not about me that i worry. i know there are simple people who are easily bamboozled by smooth talkers. it happens all of the time. why do you think there are groups like the branch davidians and the followers of jones who led hundreds to their deaths in latin america? because smooth talkers often confuse simple people who may have weak faith.