Remain isolated or restart the economy?

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It’s apparent that people are in denial about how bad things are truly going to be. Unemployment may reach record levels, homelessness is on the rise, a housing crisis is looming and foreclosures are set to skyrocket, but hey, everything will be back to normal when the quarantine ends, all businesses will open right back up as if nothing happened, and everyone will magically have their job back! The virus is going away in mid-May and never coming back!

Even if everything would open back up and the virus disappears in May (it won’t) it will take years to recover from this economic crisis. I’m not saying we should just flip a switch and open up right away, but let’s not minimize how bad things truly are going to be for awhile. Ask your local parish if things are going to be OK as soon as the quarantine ends. Ask them if they’re currently still paying all of their employees and can afford to keep them on at the same rates when masses start up again and collections start flowing at regular levels. It’s no different for many small businesses and even some larger ones. Take away most or all revenue for 3-4 months and see if they can just continue operating like normal afterwards. Good luck with that.
 
Inquisitor85 said:
those clamoring for an end to the current restrictions believe their profits are more valuable than your life is.
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Like the 11,000,000 unemployed, and the small businesses which do not have an infintie amount of cash with which to survive no business at all?

We are not talking about the CEO’s and CFO’s and mid-line managers of the multi-billion dollar companies. We are talking about your neighbor who had a buisness and it is closed; or has a business and is taking in less money than it is expending trying to stay afloat. The woman who cut my hair is not dealing with dollars on a balance sheet; she is an independent contractor who is out of business - along with all the other barbers in the shop, which is now closed.

How about the two substitute teachers who did not have a contract position but were on call - and now cannot pay their rent? And the small shop owner whose business was called “non essential” and closed - but still owes rent to the landlord?

3M might have gotten into a dustup with the Feds over who was getting critical face masks, but they are still in business - opening up business isn’t about them. Or Lockheed. Or Intel.
 
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tseleehw said:
Ask your local parish if things are going to be OK as soon as the quarantine ends. Ask them if they’re currently still paying all of their employees and can afford to keep them on at the same rates when masses start up again and collections start flowing at regular levels.
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Our parish has furloughed many – I really worry for them that they’ll never be rehired. All of them did such good work. 😦
 
I would suspect that if they were good workers, they will get their jobs back - they are a known quantity and they will be more effective going back to work there than someone who does not know the job.
 
otjm said:
I would suspect that if they were good workers, they will get their jobs back - they are a known quantity and they will be more effective going back to work there than someone who does not know the job.
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Parishes work on finite amounts of income. My guess is that if the economic predictions are as dire as I’ve read, their jobs will simply be absorbed by others, who will receive no increase in pay.
 
Especially if they get benefits. Cheaper to hire new people without them.
 
Then push your representatives to support them, rather than handing out out welfare to corporations. Honestly the US stimulus is a joke and it targets the wrong areas, you need to keep the majority above water the corps will look after themselves.
 
gracepoole said:
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otjm:
I would suspect that if they were good workers, they will get their jobs back - they are a known quantity and they will be more effective going back to work there than someone who does not know the job.
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Parishes work on finite amounts of income. My guess is that if the economic predictions are as dire as I’ve read, their jobs will simply be absorbed by others, who will receive no increase in pay.
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Yep - my priest sent out an email last week saying that all parish employees have been furloughed and hinted that some of them would not be retained if not enough people contributed while masses are still cancelled. He said that the parish financial situation is dire, and the parish had a significant surplus heading into 2020. Smaller or financially struggling parishes, businesses, etc., may not survive depending on how long this lasts.
 
tseleehw said:
Ask them if they’re currently still paying all of their employees and can afford to keep them on at the same rates when masses start up again and collections start flowing at regular levels.
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As a parish staffer, yes. We and the school staff are still working every day, still being paid. Was made clear to all of us even before the forgivable loans from SBA became available.

Each Diocese may have different policies, but, that does not mean all parish offices are shuttered
 
Melissa said:
Many hospitals and other medical resources are not overstretched. There have been massive layoffs in some facilities (all the CNAs in one of the two hospitals here were laid off, and I’ve read multiple accounts of similar layoffs for CNAs, RNs etc in other locations). Beds are under 50% filled. People are being denied necessary medical care because there “might be” covid patients. (I work for another facility here, not the one that laid off all their CNAs), and I have never seen census numbers so low.
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This is a bit of news no one will hear about. We all hear about shortages of beds and equipment, but your view is not exactly supporting the media mantra. I wonder how wide spread this phenomenon is. Are there others here who work in health/pharma field that could add to this?
 
The furloughs, layoffs of medical staff at clinics and hospitals is all over our print and TV news media here. The hospitals are not having routine and elective procedures. Folks who work in these jobs are going on unemployment.

Google brings up dozens and dozens of news stories:

https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/t...-during-coronavirus-pandemic/M56S2KIYTVBTLAQX

https://www.kltv.com/2020/04/13/eas...lough-workers-amid-covid-pandemic/AY4KKJACUM/

www.inquirer.com

Philly-area hospitals furlough employees as coronavirus prep depletes revenue

As hospital's clinical workers face an increasing workload, their nonclinical coworkers are losing their jobs.
www.inquirer.com www.inquirer.com
 
Melissa said:
Many hospitals and other medical resources are not overstretched. There have been massive layoffs in some facilities (all the CNAs in one of the two hospitals here were laid off, and I’ve read multiple accounts of similar layoffs for CNAs, RNs etc in other locations). Beds are under 50% filled. People are being denied necessary medical care because there “might be” covid patients. (I work for another facility here, not the one that laid off all their CNAs), and I have never seen census numbers so low.
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The nature of this virus is such that nothing but severe isolation and hygiene measures can keep it in check. This is pretty much the consensus of medicine and science globally. After that factual foundation, the debate becomes about whether protecting lives is more important the protecting an economy.

I feel blessed that our treasurer (Australia) is Jewish and is fearlessly applying tribal principles of saving the lives of our own while handing out money to ensure that employees and small businesses are financially sustained in a kind of suspended animation. This will end and hopefully people can be placed back into the economy where they left off. We’ll have huge debt of course but preserving the national ‘family’ sets us in good stead for a healthy, holistic recovery.
 
Inquisitor85 said:
Remain isolated until you are told otherwise, if you reopen too quickly you’ll harm the economy more by forcing a second and much more severe lockdown. As an atheist I’d say that your life has more value than a dollar on a balance sheet, those clamoring for an end to the current restrictions believe their profits are more valuable than your life is.

This will take time to restart and social distancing will remain in place for at least the next 12-18 months, so my advice would be to get used to the current situation.
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Emeraldlady said:
The nature of this virus is such that nothing but severe isolation and hygiene measures can keep it in check. This is pretty much the consensus of medicine and science globally. After that factual foundation, the debate becomes about whether protecting lives is more important the protecting an economy.

I feel blessed that our treasurer (Australia) is Jewish and is fearlessly applying tribal principles of saving the lives of our own while handing out money to ensure that employees and small businesses are financially sustained in a kind of suspended animation. This will end and hopefully people can be placed back into the economy where they left off. We’ll have huge debt of course but preserving the national ‘family’ sets us in good stead for a healthy, holistic recovery.
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I am in total agreement with both of you on this. I am not an economist (15 credit hours of econ in college, minored in it, because of quirky degree requirements, ended up with more duplication of subject matter than I’d have liked) but I have to think that fiat-creation of all this money to put in people’s pockets, is going to lead to inflation in the long run. Well, I hate to say it, but that may just have to be the way things turn out, the lesser of two evils. As long as it’s not hyperinflation (Weimar Germany, Venezuela, Zimbabwe), we can handle it. Prices went up in the 1970s and never really came back down. Just the nature of the beast in a fiat-money economy.

The largely conservative-cum-libertarian argument seems to run something like this:
  • we’ve got to get the economy up and running sooner instead of later
  • the effects of this virus are being exaggerated, possibly by liberal interests with their own agenda
  • we need to avoid going into a depression, even if it means more people die, than would die if we isolated longer
  • we need to establish “herd immunity”, again, even if it means more people die
  • just “giving people money” is a bad thing
  • it’s fiat money, it doesn’t exist until it is “created” out of thin air (this much is just a fact)
  • people shouldn’t be told what to do by their government
  • and there could be an agenda of more and more government control on a rolling basis (the “frog in the pot of gradually warming water” argument)
  • and even more sinister things on top of that (the more lurid conspiracy theories surrounding Bill Gates, etc.), some things even tying back to the Book of Revelation
 
That’s what our Governor says he’s going to do.

I think it’s too soon. But what do I know? I’m just someone who’s playing it safe.
 
Our governor is one of those Trump is accusing of making a mutiny in terms of their reluctance to throw open the businesses and public places too soon. Much has been posted here about Catholics’ obligation to “render unto Caesar” in obeying legal authority. So if Trump orders businesses to open, does it become sinful for Catholics to remain at home, to continue to self-isolate out of fear of the virus? Several posts above seem to make the argument that human life is less important than restarting the economy. Currently failure to self-distance seems to be a moral wrong; tomorrow, does continuing to self-distance become the new moral wrong?
 
Reopening the economy has me feeling squeamish. We are three generations in our house, my husband and I are past 65, my daughter, who is the primary caregiver for her fiancé who is immunosuppressed due to a liver transplant less than a year ago, and two grandkids, one elementary school and the other high school.

Gradually returning some people at low risk seems ok, but if the reopen the schools? Kids are a cesspool of germs anyway. That they might bring home CV19 to my husband…who is diabetic or to my daughter who cares for a very vulnerable person! Please, don’t reopen schools yet!
 
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