Republican hopefuls in TV debate

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I think that debate was worst one so far. Perry is just annoying me. I’m glad someone in the debates finally mentioned the fact that Cain’s 999 will just give the Feds yet another new tax, because I’ve been saying that for ages.
 
Unfortunately, people care more about feelings than about facts. Herman Cain’s 999 has numbers, but it doesn’t have the sex appeal that feelgooders want. Many will run once they focus on the 9% sales tax, even though people are getting a 6% reduction in payroll tax. Their net is still an increase of 3%. How is that appealling? What am I missing here?
 
More scrutiny of 9-9-9 to come tomorrow, we will see how it holds up. I don’t think it will. Do Republicans really want a national sales tax?
 
Top choices:
  • Gingrich, Bachmann, Santorum
  • Paul, Romney, Cain
  • Perry and Huntsman are done. (IMO)
Gingrich is the man, but I’d love to see Bachmann as the first woman president. Santorum was good as usual, but doesn’t get the credit.
 
Sex Appeal
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?

What an odd way to put it.

Fact is that 666, err I mean 999 means a 27% tax, in addition to state taxes. So that actually means more taxes, for everyone.
All to fund more war.
Not to mention the guys blatant willingness to discriminate on the basis of religion.
Not to mention his lying in his books (he says he was in high school during the “Civil Rights”, even though he was actually in college).
Not to mention his dodging the draft (he had a nice cushy job mopping floors for the Navy Research labs).

Cain couldn’t even run his pizza shop (people should look into actually how terrible of an exec he actually was, in terms of real numbers), how are we going to let fox news talk us into letting that “dear leader” run the country? The same way MSNBC talked us into letting the current “dear leader”?

Heck Tom Monaghan took Dominos from a local Pizza Shop to a internationally recognized franchise, why didn’t the media nominate him for pres? Oh wait, he is a Catholic, actually has political experience, and not as likely to send our kids to die in foreign wars.

What makes McCain… oops I mean Cain, so special, aside from his stint with the Fed (in which he oversaw some disgusting scandals) and his failed (and possibly fraudulent) stint as a pizza exec?
:confused:
 
Caldera said:
Top choices:
  • Gingrich, Bachmann, Santorum
  • Paul, Romney, Cain
  • Perry and Huntsman are done. (IMO)
.
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Huntsman has some funds to keep him going. But I don’t know how much longer

I really don’t know what keeps Santorum in the race.

Gingrich is selling books and speaking tours.

Perry has LOTS of money (17 million) so he isn’t going anywhere.

From experience in the past, these candidates stay in until their money runs dry.

Bachmann is playing spoiler in these events. Now she is going after Cain.

Romney dominated to night.
 
gilliam said:
Huntsman has some funds to keep him going. But I don’t know how much longer

I really don’t know what keeps Santorum in the race.

Gingrich is selling books and speaking tours.

Perry has LOTS of money (17 million) so he isn’t going anywhere.

From experience in the past, these candidates stay in until their money runs dry.

Bachmann is playing spoiler in these events. Now she is going after Cain.

Romney dominated to night.
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Agree (except for Romney dominating), I believe they are the best choices in that order regardless of finances.
 
What does our Catholic faith say about supporting a Morman for President? The Mormans I know are very anti-Catholic. I am not being hateful here, I am only want an answer seeing how things are progressing.
 
mrsjeang said:
What does our Catholic faith say about supporting a Morman for President? The Mormans I know are very anti-Catholic. I am not being hateful here, I am only want an answer seeing how things are progressing.
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You vote on the issues and who is most likely to support and promote our views on the issues. See: USCCB “Faithful Citizenship” None of the candidates are anti-Catholic. Some may be more pro-life than others and we should probably vote for those who are more pro-life. Remember, The direct and intentional destruction of innocent human life from the moment of conception until natural death is always wrong and is not just one issue among many. It must always be opposed.
 
Phase 1 - 9-9-9
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Code: 
Current circumstances call for bolder action.
The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan incorporates the features of Phase One and gets us a step closer to Phase two.
I call on the Super Committee to pass the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan along with their spending cut package.
The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan unites Flat Tax supporters with Fair tax supporters.
Achieves the broadest possible tax base along with the lowest possible rate of 9%.
It ends the Payroll Tax completely – a permanent holiday!
Zero capital gains tax
Ends the Death Tax.
Eliminates double taxation of dividends
Business Flat Tax – 9%
    Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders.
    Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for payroll employed in the zone.
Individual Flat Tax – 9%.
    Gross income less charitable deductions.
    Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.
National Sales Tax – 9%.
    This gets the Fair Tax off the sidelines and into the game.
Click to expand...
Phase 2 – The Fair Tax
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Code: 
Amidst a backdrop of the economic boom created by the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan, I will begin the process of educating the American people on the benefits of continuing the next step to the Fair Tax.
The Fair Tax would ultimately replace individual and corporate income taxes.
It would make it possible to end the IRS as we know it.
The Fair Tax makes our exported goods and services the most competitively internationally than any other tax system.
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Phase 1 Enhanced Plan – Summary
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Code: 
Unites all tax payers so we all pay income taxes and no one pays payroll taxes
Provides the least incentive to evade taxes and the fewest opportunities to do so
Lifts a $430 billion dead-weight burden on the economy due to compliance, enforcement, collection, etc.
Is fair, neutral, transparent, and efficient
Ends nearly all deductions and special interest favors
Ends all payroll taxes
Ends the Death Tax
Features zero tax on capital gains and repatriated profits
Lowest marginal rates on production
Allows immediate expensing of business investments
Eliminates double taxation of dividends
Increases capital formation. Capital per worker drives productivity and wage growth
Capital formation will aid capital availability for small businesses
Features a platform to launch properly structured Empowerment Zones to revitalize our inner cities
We all know the Fed has tripled the money supply since 2008. They have been printing money out of thin air to finance the Obama spending machine. While true Fed reform that restores sound money may have to wait for my election, the best thing we can do now is to pursue policies that increase the DEMAND for dollars to help mitigate the risks associated with the increase in the supply.
Pro-growth economic policies equal a strong dollar policy
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Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is basically a pair of proposals: deep cuts in the existing federal taxes on individual and corporate income, both of which would be reduced to a flat rate of 9 percent from existing rates that run above 30 percent, combined with a new 9 percent national sales tax.

Mr. Cain has provided only a broad sketch of how such a plan would work, making it impossible to evaluate exactly how much money the government would raise.
But one clear feature of the proposal is that it would shift the burden of taxation, as Bruce Bartlett noted in a recent piece for The New York Times. By cutting income tax rates and imposing a sales tax to make up the difference, the plan would reduce taxes on higher-income families and raise taxes on lower-income families — including many families who pay no taxes under the current system. Some of those lower-income families, who now receive payments from the government, would instead be required to pay taxes.

It’s also important to note that the plan is intended as a transitional stage. Mr. Cain proposes the ultimate elimination of income taxes, in favor of a flat 30 percent sales tax.

thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/fact-checking-the-republican-debate-on-the-economy/?smid=tw-thecaucus&seid=auto

As Michelle Bachmann pointed out tonight it simply sets up a new federal income tax that the federal government can raise over time (like cities and states have.)

Does anyone really trust the federal government that much?
 
gilliam said:
Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is basically a pair of proposals: deep cuts in the existing federal taxes on individual and corporate income, both of which would be reduced to a flat rate of 9 percent from existing rates that run above 30 percent, combined with a new 9 percent national sales tax.

Mr. Cain has provided only a broad sketch of how such a plan would work, making it impossible to evaluate exactly how much money the government would raise.
But one clear feature of the proposal is that it would shift the burden of taxation, as Bruce Bartlett noted in a recent piece for The New York Times. By cutting income tax rates and imposing a sales tax to make up the difference, the plan would reduce taxes on higher-income families and raise taxes on lower-income families — including many families who pay no taxes under the current system. Some of those lower-income families, who now receive payments from the government, would instead be required to pay taxes.

It’s also important to note that the plan is intended as a transitional stage. Mr. Cain proposes the ultimate elimination of income taxes, in favor of a flat 30 percent sales tax.

thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/fact-checking-the-republican-debate-on-the-economy/?smid=tw-thecaucus&seid=auto

As Michelle Bachmann pointed out tonight it simply sets up a new federal income tax that the federal government can raise over time (like cities and states have.)

Does anyone really trust the federal government that much?
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No, but I dang sure don’t trust them now either. With multi-billion dollar corporations paying 0 taxes, something has to change. It’s not like we are being taxed by the feds now anyway. Through fuel and FCC charges, business taxes are passed on to the consumer. Democrats try to throw “trickle-down” in our face and laugh as if it doesn’t exist, go ahead and tax and regulate corporations to the teeth and tell me it doesn’t trickle down.

I don’t know who has the right answers, but when I look at Romney I see Bush/Clinton/Obama all wrapped up in a high dollar suit. Perry isn’t far behind and Cain is the only one that really is connecting with me for some reason.

I’m tired and fed up with people and their liberal and union bs. What’s the solution? I don’t know I just want them to leave me the heck alone, but their too dang ignorant to know what’s good for themselves but so egotistical that they think what they have is what everyone should have whether they want it or not.

/rant off
 
mrsjeang said:
What does our Catholic faith say about supporting a Morman for President? The Mormans I know are very anti-Catholic. I am not being hateful here, I am only want an answer seeing how things are progressing.
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Most Mormons I know are personally not really Anti-Catholic, although their RELIGIOUS DOGMA is. Difference. I personally agree that Mormons are NOT Christian, but…

Many evangelicals and Catholics I also know have told me they are willing to overlook Romney’s Mormonism for the “greater good”-------getting Obama out of office. We simply cannot have four more years of Obama in office----wouldn’t you agree?

Romney has also said and promised that he will not let his Mormonism be a large part of his presidency----and I basically trust him on that.

But I agree again------Mormons are NOT Christian. Sorry if I offend any Mormons here. I will vote for the man, but don’t ask me to pretend he’s a TRUE Christian. My opinion and I’m sticking to it.
 
gilliam said:
Republican hopefuls in TV debate

bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15269094
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I think Romney won the debate. He sounded presidential, talking about the importance of leadership, and looked presidential. I couldn’t care less that he’s a Mormon. What I do worry about is his economic competence although he supposedly has the background in this area according to…himself. What should we make of his Romney Care package in Massachusetts? Many say it has not been a success, so why didn’t Perry pursue this more? Also, Romney’s attitude toward China seems a bit troubling. And so far he appears to speak in generalities despite his detailed, multi-pronged proposal for job growth.

Perry was a disappointment even from the perspective of a non-supporter, not appearing in command at all but rather timid and on the defensive, accompanied by an energy mantra as a solution to the job problem; while Gingrich behaved like the elder statesman of the group, often praising others’ remarks and fostering once again party unity for the purpose of defeating Obama. Cain was a broken record with his 999 plan, and his praise of former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan was odd. Huntsman is a non-entity in this race, and Bachmann and Santorum, while both sounding sincere in their beliefs, didn’t seem to have the “gravitas” needed for the nomination, at least in the economic arena. Paul expressed his usual libertarian views, which most people probably don’t really understand anyway.
 
gilliam said:
Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is basically a pair of proposals: deep cuts in the existing federal taxes on individual and corporate income, both of which would be reduced to a flat rate of 9 percent from existing rates that run above 30 percent, combined with a new 9 percent national sales tax.

Mr. Cain has provided only a broad sketch of how such a plan would work, making it impossible to evaluate exactly how much money the government would raise.
But one clear feature of the proposal is that it would shift the burden of taxation, as Bruce Bartlett noted in a recent piece for The New York Times. By cutting income tax rates and imposing a sales tax to make up the difference, the plan would reduce taxes on higher-income families and raise taxes on lower-income families — including many families who pay no taxes under the current system. Some of those lower-income families, who now receive payments from the government, would instead be required to pay taxes.

It’s also important to note that the plan is intended as a transitional stage. Mr. Cain proposes the ultimate elimination of income taxes, in favor of a flat 30 percent sales tax.

thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/fact-checking-the-republican-debate-on-the-economy/?smid=tw-thecaucus&seid=auto

As Michelle Bachmann pointed out tonight it simply sets up a new federal income tax that the federal government can raise over time (like cities and states have.)

Does anyone really trust the federal government that much?
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I tend to agree with Bachmann on that one.
 
What does our Catholic faith say about supporting a Morman for President? The Mormans I know are very anti-Catholic. I am not being hateful here, I am only want an answer seeing how things are progressing.
Click to expand...
There will always be pro-life options outside of the two party system. If we keep voting along the lines of democrat or republican, we will always be stuck with the lesser of two evils.
 
I like Perry and Cain.

My only reservation about Cain is the 9% sales tax.

Anybody would be better than Obama.
 
Gingrich: the statesman and most knowlegeable of the whole group. He has the most gravitias and could run circles around Obama in a debate. But he also has the most baggage.

Cain: His 999 plan would increase my sales tax from 9% to 18% (to start with). I know that supposedly other taxes would go down, but I agree with Bachmann in that giving the federal govt. a sales tax is a dangerous thing.

Bachmann: not really a factor. At times she seemed to be angling for a possible veep? But I doubt after McCain/Palin the next nominee would be willing to gamble with picking Bachmann, even if she’s more articulate and has more political experience than Palin.

Romney: his front runner status seems to be increasingly a fait accompli. I don’t consider Cain to be much of a threat to his status. Romney is polished, has good answers and always performs well in these debates.

Huntsman: why is he still in this?

Paul: Why is he still invited to the debates?

Santorum: He had a great point that the others have overlooked- the connection between prosperity, economic growth, poverty and the strenght of the family in our society. Families with only one parent are much more likely to be poor than families with two parents. That would seem a no-brainer, but its too bad that its only Santorum who is bringing this up. Unfortunately, Santorum’s campaign is going nowhere.

Favorite question: Gingrich asking Romney why he is for cutting the capital gains tax on people earning 250K or less and not on people making more (who would be more likely to re-invest the money they save from a cut in capital gains taxes - thus expanding the economy and creating jobs). Romney didn’t really answer the question.

Worst question: from one of the debate co-hosts to Cain: “why did you say to all of those millions who are unemployed that its their fault they don’t have a job?” This was a low blow “gotcha” type attempt. Cain was referring specifically to the protesters at Wall Street when he said that, not the unemployed in America, and the co-host knew that.

Ishii
 
So it looks by the current poll results here that Romney won another Republican debate. :yawn:

Huntsman might be staying in until NH to see if he can upset Romney there. But I saw 2 polls today with Romney ahead in IA where from what I hear he’s personally not putting forth a whole lot of time, and with a huge lead in NH.
 
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