Republican hopefuls in TV debate

[ishii]

bbarrick, hardly does the extreme left rule the Democratic Party. Instead of “Obamacare” as ya’ll like to call it, if the extreme left ruled the Democratic Party, instead of it we would have single payer. But the extreme left couldn’t even get a public option. We actually have 2 major parties, an extreme conservative one and a more moderate one.

You display a lack of knowlege of the tactics and goals of the left. If the left tried to ram their whole agenda down our throats the country would reject them outright. The only way to achieve their goals is pass their agenda piecemeal. Hence, Obamacare doesn’t have the public option you want, but it paves the way for it. The social agenda of the left - redefining the family, supplanting the Church with the government, etc. is passed a little bit at a time so as not to wake up the masses who are too busy enjoying their material goods and watching Monday night football to care. The agenda and goals of the left is based on secularism and ought to be rejected by christians.

Ishii

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

The normal function of government is to supplant all private charity and provide cradle to grave welfare for all. Housing, a chicken in every pot, a car in every garage, a free liberal arts college education for every protester, a laptop in every desk. In the world of leftism, the government replaces the Church. And many otherwise well-intentioned christian folks buy into it because they think this ideology will “help the poor”.

Ishii

I’ve said it for years, the goal of the left is to replace God with government.

“Render unto Caesar” and all that…

 

[irishpatrick]

IrishPatrick, a lot of what you say is true here - I have always admired Santorum, and will never forget how he reduced Barbara Boxer to a babbling idiot on the senate floor in a debate on partial birth abortion. However, I think the problem is not that we are not going on twitter or facebook and talking up the Santorum candidacy, the problem is that too many catholics aren’t serious about their faith. I live in a region where catholics not only don’t get enthusiastically behind the great catholic (or similar) candidate, they actually support the pro-abortion Democrat! The problem with the 70 million catholics goes deeper than one of mere “mobilization” of the catholic vote. I think much of the problem can be attributed to lack of leadership and education on th epart of the bishops and catholic schools. Also materialism and relativism of our culture has sucked in a lot of catholics. The bottom line: you wouldn’t get many catholics on the west coast to support santorum because he has an “R” next to his name. In Washington, we had a good catholic gubernatorial candidate - Dino Rossi, up against a pro-abortion catholic (!!) candidate. Guess who won, and with the votes of many catholics? Guess who was invited to an archdiocese event to speak? Yes, the pro-abortion governor. Its very frustrating. I think the leadership in the CAtholic church has, by many of their decisions, added to the confusion. Also, remember, there are good catholics who also support other good candidates for valid reasons - Cain, Perry or even Romney.

Ishii

I agree with everything you wrote. However, we must make a stand or we have no right to complain. We want the very best candidate possible–for Catholics (and really for the nation), that candidate is Santorum. I agree many Catholics will not vote for him because of the “R” before his name, but millions might just listen to us if we raise his name to them. One step at a time, we cannot get there unless we try and ask the Lord for help while we try.

 

[irishpatrick]

This is the primary season–we Catholics do NOT have to settled for a candidate. We have an awesome Catholic family man running! Every faithful Catholic should be voting for him during the primary season and they should doing what they can to get the word out.

Are we Catholics, or not?

WE are allowing the GOP establishment, and the MSM to push us toward two candidates, Romney and Cain (we are acting like sheep). Why, during this primary period, are we allowing anyone to push us toward candidates who do not fully represent our values when we have one candidate who does?

 

[Mudgely]

This is the primary season–we Catholics do NOT have to settled for a candidate. We have an awesome Catholic family man running! Every faithful Catholic should be voting for him during the primary season and they should doing what they can to get the word out.

Are we Catholics, or not?

WE are allowing the GOP establishment, and the MSM to push us toward two candidates, Romney and Cain (we are acting like sheep). Why, during this primary period, are we allowing anyone to push us toward candidates who do not fully represent our values when we have one candidate who does?

I have come to favor a more parliamentary system. If “catholics” get 17% of the vote, then they would get 17% of the house and senate. If the “greens” get 3%, then they get their proportion of seats, etc… this way moderate ground can be found among those who are close in interests, and and the legislature is not deadlocked. Different minority positions would come together on differing issues. The two party system locks our legislators into impossible ideological positions in order to support a party that is too large to have a cohesive platform.

 

[rlg94086]

This is the primary season–we Catholics do NOT have to settled for a candidate. We have an awesome Catholic family man running! Every faithful Catholic should be voting for him during the primary season and they should doing what they can to get the word out.

Are we Catholics, or not?

WE are allowing the GOP establishment, and the MSM to push us toward two candidates, Romney and Cain (we are acting like sheep). Why, during this primary period, are we allowing anyone to push us toward candidates who do not fully represent our values when we have one candidate who does?

I haven’t decided who I will vote for in the primary, but I like Romney and voted for him last primary. I resent being told that I’m “settling,” “allowing the GOP establishment, and the MSM” to “push” me toward a particular candidate, or that I’m “acting like sheep.” It is a rude thing for you to say.

We all need to assess the strengths and weaknesses of all the candidates. I like Santorum, but I’m not yet convinced he is the best choice. Perhaps he will convince me before I vote. There are flaws in all of these candidates (after all, they are all human beings), but I assure you I make my decisions based on my well-formed conscience. I will leave my fellow Catholics to also make their choices based on their well-formed consciences.

BTW…part of the reason I am remaining undecided until voting time is that I mailed my vote for Romney in…he quit the following day. By the time my primary occurs, Rick Santorum may not even be a choice.

 

[irishpatrick]

I haven’t decided who I will vote for in the primary, but I like Romney and voted for him last primary. I resent being told that I’m “settling,” “allowing the GOP establishment, and the MSM” to “push” me toward a particular candidate, or that I’m “acting like sheep.” It is a rude thing for you to say.

We all need to assess the strengths and weaknesses of all the candidates. I like Santorum, but I’m not yet convinced he is the best choice. Perhaps he will convince me before I vote. There are flaws in all of these candidates (after all, they are all human beings), but I assure you I make my decisions based on my well-formed conscience. I will leave my fellow Catholics to also make their choices based on their well-formed consciences.

BTW…part of the reason I am remaining undecided until voting time is that I mailed my vote for Romney in…he quit the following day. By the time my primary occurs, Rick Santorum may not even be a choice.

Well, I spoke plainly, and so did you. Clarity is good.

I think Santorum plans to stay in for a while. We will see. I just don’t want to hear Catholics whining if they don’t get a good candidate–we have a great candidate in Santorum. I cannot fathom why faithful Catholics would look to anyone else–Santorum is right on all the issues.

I believe that Romney is far better than Obama, yet Romney is still a moderate candidate at best (in 08 he was called the ‘Democrat lite’ candidate).

 

[ishii]

Well, I spoke plainly, and so did you. Clarity is good.

I think Santorum plans to stay in for a while. We will see. I just don’t want to hear Catholics whining if they don’t get a good candidate–we have a great candidate in Santorum. I cannot fathom why faithful Catholics would look to anyone else–Santorum is right on all the issues.

I believe that Romney is far better than Obama, yet Romney is still a moderate candidate at best (in 08 he was called the ‘Democrat lite’ candidate).

One other thing about Rick Santorum is that the last election he was in, he lost by 18 points, hardly recommending him as a strong candidate for national office. While he is a strong social conservative - reflecting his solid Catholic values - he is actually solidly GOP establishment on foreign policy - the Iraq war, War on terror, etc. Many Catholics believe that its time for America to tone down its committments abroad and that the wars we’ve been engaged in the past 8 years were wrong or atleast its time to bring back the troops. Those with that perspective - and there are many catholics who share that perspective - would not see Santorum as the ideal candidate.

Its kind of the old chicken versus egg question. Is Santorum unelectable because not many catholic or values voters support him? Or do not many voters support him because he’s unelectable? Not living in the main primary states, I don’t have much direct influence on his candidacy. I will admit to not having contributed to his campaign, nor anyone elses. I would support him enthusiastically if he got the nomination. I understand the concerns people have about Romney, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say he and Obama are opposite sides of the same coin. Atleast with Romney, he would actually know what to do to get the economy back on track, and I truly believe that Obamacare would be repealed if he were elected.

Ishii

 

[meltzerboy]

The normal function of government is to supplant all private charity and provide cradle to grave welfare for all. Housing, a chicken in every pot, a car in every garage, a free liberal arts college education for every protester, a laptop in every desk. In the world of leftism, the government replaces the Church. And many otherwise well-intentioned christian folks buy into it because they think this ideology will “help the poor”.

Ishii

Don’t you think they also buy into this ideology because they’re afraid of becoming poor themselves and because some of them have already become the working, as well as the non-working, poor as the middle class continues to shrink?

 

[rlg94086]

One other thing about Rick Santorum is that the last election he was in, he lost by 18 points, hardly recommending him as a strong candidate for national office. While he is a strong social conservative - reflecting his solid Catholic values - he is actually solidly GOP establishment on foreign policy - the Iraq war, War on terror, etc. Many Catholics believe that its time for America to tone down its committments abroad and that the wars we’ve been engaged in the past 8 years were wrong or atleast its time to bring back the troops. Those with that perspective - and there are many catholics who share that perspective - would not see Santorum as the ideal candidate.

Its kind of the old chicken versus egg question. Is Santorum unelectable because not many catholic or values voters support him? Or do not many voters support him because he’s unelectable? Not living in the main primary states, I don’t have much direct influence on his candidacy. I will admit to not having contributed to his campaign, nor anyone elses. I would support him enthusiastically if he got the nomination. I understand the concerns people have about Romney, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say he and Obama are opposite sides of the same coin. Atleast with Romney, he would actually know what to do to get the economy back on track, and I truly believe that Obamacare would be repealed if he were elected.

Ishii

That pretty much sums up my reasoning at this point.

 

[ishii]

Don’t you think they also buy into this ideology because they’re afraid of becoming poor themselves and because some of them have already become the working, as well as the non-working, poor as the middle class continues to shrink?

Maybe. Perhaps some have bought into this ideology out of fear of poverty. But I think there are also those who have been brought up thinking that the good ol’ Democrat party is the party of the “little guy” and the big bad GOP is the party of “the man” who will exploit you. If you’re talking about catholics, there is a deeply ingrained feeling among some that the Democrat party is still basically the party of our grandfathers - the party of FDR and Truman. Or they think that the social liberalism can be tolerated because the Democrat party does so much for the poor.

Ishii

 

[CMatt25]

Who is the moderate in the democrat party?

Nancy Pelosi… she was the speaker…chosen by democrats and chosen again to be minority leader.
uh…

Perhaps Maxine Waters? Harry Reid? Jesse Jackson Jr? James Clyburn? Barney Frank? Chris Dodd? Charles Schummer? Patty Murray?
Oh I know… maybe its Dennis Kuchinich?

Where is this moderate party? I cant seem to locate it.

I won’t take the time to name every single moderate and conservative Democrat in Congress for you. But I’ll locate some for you.

Moderate to conservative Democratic Senators include Bill Nelson, Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu, Joe Manchin, Max Baucus, Kent Conrad. John Tester, Jim Webb…

One could include a number of other Senators in the moderate camp.

And the Blue Dog Coalition is a group of Congressional moderate and conservative Democrats. Membership for the 112th Congress is 26 seats.

Jason Altmire (PA-4)
Joe Baca (CA-43)
John Barrow (GA-12), Co-Chair for Policy
Sanford Bishop (GA-2)
Dan Boren (OK-2), Blue Dog Whip
Leonard Boswell (IA-3)
Dennis Cardoza (CA-18)
Ben Chandler (KY-6)
Jim Cooper (TN-5)
Jim Costa (CA-20)
Henry Cuellar (TX-28)
Joe Donnelly (IN-2)
Gabrielle Giffords (AZ-8)
Tim Holden (PA-17)
Jim Matheson (UT-2)
Mike McIntyre (NC-7)
Mike Michaud (ME-2)
Collin Peterson (MN-7)
Mike Ross (AR-4), Co-Chair for Communications
Loretta Sanchez (CA-47)
Adam Schiff (CA-29)
Kurt Schrader (OR-5)
David Scott (GA-13)
Heath Shuler (NC-11), Co-Chair for Administration
Mike Thompson (CA-1)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Coalition#New_Democrat_Coalition

Barack Obama is not even of the extreme left wing of his party. Compared to Dennis Kucinich who you mentioned, Barack Obama is center left at best.

Hope that helps!

 

[CMatt25]

Calling the Tea Party “extreme right” is just a tactic to demonize them. Liberals love demonizing their enemies. The Tea Party is just regular folks who are concerned about government spending, the economy, etc. I had a conversation with a liberal yesterday who was saying the same thing: that the Tea Party is admirable for raising the issue of government spending.

Ishii

Thank you Ishii for passing judgement on what you call my “demonizing”.

 

[ManOnFire]

I agree, Santorum’s message, just like the message of Christ in the Catholic Church, is polarizing. Isn’t that what we need at this trying time (someone with a strong moral foundation built about Jesus’ truth)?

We Catholics can look across the candidate board and see a very strong Catholic man (Santorum), who is bound tightly to his family, to Jesus and to Jesus’ Church, and yet we ignore that and lean toward the non-Catholic and much more secular candidates. And, then when things do not improve, and when babies continue to die through abortion, and when marriage and the family grow weaker and weaker–we will wonder why!

Unity of life seems to mean very little to many Catholics today. There are 70,000,000 Catholics in this nation–we could easily usher in the next President, but we won’t stand behind our own faith and morals, so we will just get more of the same.

Sometimes I think Catholics don’t want to be seen as being “too Catholic.” College and the culture has made many desire a “Catholic lite.”

Santorum won’t win because he is a good man with the proper perspective and foundation for nearly every issue. It is a deeply sad reality that this nation so easily rejects good people.

Today, we are living in a culture that is becoming increasingly hostile toward the Catholic Church and toward Christianity in general. Isn’t a strong Catholic President the very antidote we need?

We should be writing blogs, and filling Twitter, and speaking with people we know about Rick Santorum. We should help raise his numbers so that at least he might become a viable VP candiate. Yet, sadly, with a nation filled with Catholics who enjoy a “lighter” faith, the odds of this happening are quite slim…but all things are possible with God and it only takes one person to start a new direction.

Support Santorum!

The unelected liberal pop culture media is the new god which has reduced people into acting on neanderthalic basic instincts which supplies the instant feelgood and creates more dependents, but since they own the airwaves, they can laud people for being open-minded, hoping they won’t discover this reality.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Barack Obama is not even of the extreme left wing of his party. Compared to Dennis Kucinich who you mentioned, Barack Obama is center left at best.

This is what they call ****ing on someone and trying to convince them it’s raining.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

This is what they call ****ing on someone and trying to convince them it’s raining.

One of my favorite lines from The Outlaw Josie Wales.

 

[irishpatrick]

One other thing about Rick Santorum is that the last election he was in, he lost by 18 points, hardly recommending him as a strong candidate for national office. While he is a strong social conservative - reflecting his solid Catholic values - he is actually solidly GOP establishment on foreign policy - the Iraq war, War on terror, etc. Many Catholics believe that its time for America to tone down its committments abroad and that the wars we’ve been engaged in the past 8 years were wrong or atleast its time to bring back the troops. Those with that perspective - and there are many catholics who share that perspective - would not see Santorum as the ideal candidate.

Its kind of the old chicken versus egg question. Is Santorum unelectable because not many catholic or values voters support him? Or do not many voters support him because he’s unelectable? Not living in the main primary states, I don’t have much direct influence on his candidacy. I will admit to not having contributed to his campaign, nor anyone elses. I would support him enthusiastically if he got the nomination. I understand the concerns people have about Romney, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say he and Obama are opposite sides of the same coin. Atleast with Romney, he would actually know what to do to get the economy back on track, and I truly believe that Obamacare would be repealed if he were elected.

Ishii

It is a sad reality today that many people (obviously not all) are followers. Romney and Cain are seen as the only electable candidates at this point, so according to the media people like Santorum have no chance, so we should not consider him (or any of the others). This is all based on polling, and not on actual votes, and it is all based on agendas, not what might actually be good for the nation.

Santorum has a very impressive public record, including national office. He is correct on all the issues (at least from a Catholic pov), and he certainly has far more to offer than does Cain or Romney–yet he has not been crowned by the GOP of the media, so he is out. Of course, if Catholics actually kept their faith when they voted, Santorum would rush to the top, but we know it would take a huge change for that to happen.

I hear all the time Catholics saying things like: where are all the good leaders? Where are the strong men and women we need? How come we cannot get a strong moral and ethical person to run for the Presidency? Why can’t a strong Catholic run? on-and-on…yet, Santorum is the answer to those questions and yet people don’t really want a good man for President.

 

[ishii]

Thank you Ishii for passing judgement on what you call my “demonizing”.

We pass judgement all the time, Cmatt - you included. If you wrongly call the tea party movement “extreme right” I will most certainly “pass judgement” on your mischaracterization. The tea party has been demonized by others since they began- usually they are called “racists”, but calling them “extreme right wing” is another attempt to demonize them. The left uses scare tactics against their opponents regularly - as Nancy Pelosi’s recent comments show - she said, “Republicans want women to die on the floor”. (there is another thread on that). Yes, the left routinely demonizes their opponents and engages in scare tactics. I would not want to be associated with such a group.

Ishii

 

[ManOnFire]

One other thing about Rick Santorum is that the last election he was in, he lost by 18 points, hardly recommending him as a strong candidate for national office. While he is a strong social conservative - reflecting his solid Catholic values - he is actually solidly GOP establishment on foreign policy - the Iraq war, War on terror, etc. Many Catholics believe that its time for America to tone down its committments abroad and that the wars we’ve been engaged in the past 8 years were wrong or atleast its time to bring back the troops. Those with that perspective - and there are many catholics who share that perspective - would not see Santorum as the ideal candidate.

Its kind of the old chicken versus egg question. Is Santorum unelectable because not many catholic or values voters support him? Or do not many voters support him because he’s unelectable? Not living in the main primary states, I don’t have much direct influence on his candidacy. I will admit to not having contributed to his campaign, nor anyone elses. I would support him enthusiastically if he got the nomination. I understand the concerns people have about Romney, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say he and Obama are opposite sides of the same coin. Atleast with Romney, he would actually know what to do to get the economy back on track, and I truly believe that Obamacare would be repealed if he were elected.

Ishii

Santorum lost to an Irish Catholic Democrat. Most people in Pennsylvania are either Irish, Catholic, Democrat, or some combination. How could a principled man defeat a man who says yes to everyone on everything? Until now, being a yes man was the easiest job in the world.

 

[SalesianSDB]

Compared to Dennis Kucinich who you mentioned, Barack Obama is center left at best.

I like Kucinich. He’s one of the few politicians, let alone liberals, that I respect.