Republican Primaries

[Scott_Lafrance]

But were commerce taxes not the original form/source of American govt revenue? Allowing our forefathers to make The Louisiana Purchase?

What American precedent is there for abolishing corporate taxes in favor of individual income taxes Scott?

jomoco

I am not for abolishing corporate taxes, levies, or duties. I am not a fan of income taxes, but if they have to be, then I want everyone who has to pay them to feel the pain, not get it dulled by the government “borrowing” their money at zero interest and then “refunding” them what they overpaid. It makes it seem like they are getting a gift from the government, and reinforces the system. I want everyone who has to pay income taxes to pay them. I want them to filll out the forms, and the calculate what their annual “duty” is, and then write a check and send it in to the IRS the day before they go and vote for the people who are going to spend it.

 

[jomoco]

I am not for abolishing corporate taxes, levies, or duties. I am not a fan of income taxes, but if they have to be, then I want everyone who has to pay them to feel the pain, not get it dulled by the government “borrowing” their money at zero interest and then “refunding” them what they overpaid. It makes it seem like they are getting a gift from the government, and reinforces the system. I want everyone who has to pay income taxes to pay them. I want them to filll out the forms, and the calculate what their annual “duty” is, and then write a check and send it in to the IRS the day before they go and vote for the people who are going to spend it.

Unlike your plan, which has no American historical precedent to gauge it by, the middleclass zenith years of the 50’s and 60’s, and their taxrates, provide a successful American precedent that can be easily repeated, allowing the middleclass to grow and prosper again in these sovereign United States, in my opinion.

jomoco

 

[RACJ]

RACJ, I have to ask you question, prompted by your, let’s say, frivolous (I think a generous word) use of the word ‘Marxist.’ Have you ever read a single word ever written by Marx? By any Marxist? Do you know what a Marxist is?

PS: What did your cousin do, that he gets a $68,000 a year pension? Forgive my incredulity. Anyway, who do you think makes the most money in the provate sector? Paper pushers.

Tom Sowell has an entire book on Karl Marx. He was an evil man, but his ideas live on, through guys like Obama. Rob

 

[bbarrick8383]

Unlike your plan, which has no American historical precedent to gauge it by, the middleclass zenith years of the 50’s and 60’s, and their taxrates, provide a successful American precedent that can be easily repeated, allowing the middleclass to grow and prosper again in these sovereign United States, in my opinion.

jomoco

The latter part of the 20th century up until now is quite different than the 1950’s in so many aspects. Look at the nuclear family then vs. now. The average household income then vs. now. One major problem the middle class has today that they didn’t then was credit card debt. My wifes grandfather told me his first refrigerator was coin operated or something like that. I can go tomorrow and get a payday loan at a ridiculous interest rate. Most of the middle class today, and I’m not even sure I’d qualify as middle class, is in debt to some extent or another. We’ve gone from a society that pays cash to a society that buys on credit and that is just plain stupid.

Heck, I’m 33 years old and I knew before you posted that link that the tax rate then was around 90 percent. But I’m not gullible enough to believe that the rich paid 90 percent of their income in taxes.

I don’t for one second believe that tax rates, the source of revenue to the government, make or break the middle class. It’s the economy that does. The more the government takes out of the economy the harder it makes it for the little guy like me to make it.

 

[Caldera]

Santorum, Bachmann, sign Family Leader’s marriage vow

caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/07/08/santorum-bachmann-sign-family-leaders-marriage-vow/

Former U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum and U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann have made commitments to sign pledges in support of traditional marriage sought by the Family Leader, an Iowa group that backs Christian conservative social values.
…
The Family Leader is asking all presidential candidates to sign the pledge, which includes support of personal fidelity to his or her spouse, appointing “faithful constitutionalists” as judges, opposition to any redefinition of marriage, and prompt reform of uneconomic and anti-marriage aspects of welfare policy, tax policy, and divorce law. The Marriage Vow also outlines support for the legal advocacy for the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), humane efforts to protect women and children, rejection of Sharia Islam, safeguards for all married and unmarried U.S. military personnel, and commitment to downsizing government and the burden upon American families.

 

[Raskolnikov]

RACJ:

Tom Sowell has an entire book on Karl Marx. He was an evil man, but his ideas live on, through guys like Obama. Rob

I know, I read Sowell’s book, but why would you trust one man’s analysis of Marxism as the scriptural authority? Especially without having ever read a work by Marx himself? WHy not go straight to the source.

And Obama is not a Marxist. He’s not even close. That’s not apology, not an opinion, it’s just a fact. If Obama was a Marxist, my middle class family wouldn’t still be living in our nice, we wouldn’t still bevtaking vacations, and I (with substantial help from my parents) would be unable to pay my college tuition after having all my property seized by the state. But lo, that has not happened. No state appropriation of all bourgeois property, no abolition of division of labor, and excepting the buying out of GM, where’s the government appropriation of the means of production? Why is this “Marxist” so chummy with all these wealthy bankers? Where are all the workers marching through the streets singing La Marseillaise or L’Internationale? I’m sorry, but Obama simply is not close to being a Marxist, he’s just a liberal democrat.

 

[valentino]

I know, I read Sowell’s book, but why would you trust one man’s analysis of Marxism as the scriptural authority? Especially without having ever read a work by Marx himself? WHy not go straight to the source.

And Obama is not a Marxist. He’s not even close. That’s not apology, not an opinion, it’s just a fact. If Obama was a Marxist, my middle class family wouldn’t still be living in our nice, we wouldn’t still bevtaking vacations, and I (with substantial help from my parents) would be unable to pay my college tuition after having all my property seized by the state. But lo, that has not happened. No state appropriation of all bourgeois property, no abolition of division of labor, and excepting the buying out of GM, where’s the government appropriation of the means of production? Why is this “Marxist” so chummy with all these wealthy bankers? Where are all the workers marching through the streets singing La Marseillaise or L’Internationale? I’m sorry, but Obama simply is not close to being a Marxist, he’s just a liberal democrat.

No he’s not a Marxist.I don’t even know that he has ever read the communist manifesto or not.I doubt it but rather read books that followed Marxist principles.The democrats by their nature are socialists and Marxists.Obama has bought into this democratic party’s way of thinking.Obama doesn’t claim to be anything but a good American.Obama can’t see the light in front of his eyes.He’s a hanger on but unwittingly pusher of socialism.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

How has your Failed Redistributionist done so far with his Marxist policies? We are taking in ASTRONOMICAL revenue to fund government NOW. It’s not OUR fault that policies such as sub prime mortgages, TARP, “stimulus” bills, bailouts and Obamacare have robbed billions from our children and grandchildren. All these have been nothing more than disguised slush funds to buy votes, straight from the playbooks of Marx and Alinsky. The private sector is being robbed blind NOW, and guys like you aren’t satisfied. You WILL be satisfied when our system collapses and the Constitution is scrapped. Rob

The political and economic model they are striving for is Zimbabwe.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

No he’s not a Marxist.I don’t even know that he has ever read the communist manifesto or not.I doubt it but rather read books that followed Marxist principles.The democrats by their nature are socialists and Marxists.Obama has bought into this democratic party’s way of thinking.Obama doesn’t claim to be anything but a good American.Obama can’t see the light in front of his eyes.He’s a hanger on but unwittingly pusher of socialism.

When Obama was a youth, he was “tutored” for many years by a man named Frank Marshall Davis, who was, in fact, a Communist ideologue.

You need to look up a variety of references to the relationship between Obama and Frank Marshall Davis. It’s very important.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I know, I read Sowell’s book, but why would you trust one man’s analysis of Marxism as the scriptural authority? Especially without having ever read a work by Marx himself? WHy not go straight to the source.

And Obama is not a Marxist. He’s not even close. That’s not apology, not an opinion, it’s just a fact. If Obama was a Marxist, my middle class family wouldn’t still be living in our nice, we wouldn’t still bevtaking vacations, and I (with substantial help from my parents) would be unable to pay my college tuition after having all my property seized by the state. But lo, that has not happened. No state appropriation of all bourgeois property, no abolition of division of labor, and excepting the buying out of GM, where’s the government appropriation of the means of production? Why is this “Marxist” so chummy with all these wealthy bankers? Where are all the workers marching through the streets singing La Marseillaise or L’Internationale? I’m sorry, but Obama simply is not close to being a Marxist, he’s just a liberal democrat.

Try reading “The Roots of Obama’s Rage” by Dinesh D’Souza.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

3 things would fix the problem

1. Abolish the Federal Reserve system and all laws related to it.
2. Abolish “confiscatory” income taxes. Make all of them payable by the individual taxpayer rather than being confiscated by the government through the employer.
3. Move “tax day” to the first Monday of November. That is the day that all tax forms and tax checks are due to the IRS. Also, consequently, the day before voting day.

I would disagree with this list, to the extent that this one should be #1:

1. Move “tax day” to the first Monday of November. That is the day that all tax forms and tax checks are due to the IRS. Also, consequently, the day before voting day.

AND, end the process of withholding of taxes. They would be payable in ONE LUMP SUM ON TAX DAY. Instead of people getting taxes deducted all throughout the year and then saying they got money back when they filed their return.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

The latter part of the 20th century up until now is quite different than the 1950’s in so many aspects. Look at the nuclear family then vs. now. The average household income then vs. now. One major problem the middle class has today that they didn’t then was credit card debt. My wifes grandfather told me his first refrigerator was coin operated or something like that. I can go tomorrow and get a payday loan at a ridiculous interest rate. Most of the middle class today, and I’m not even sure I’d qualify as middle class, is in debt to some extent or another. We’ve gone from a society that pays cash to a society that buys on credit and that is just plain stupid.

Heck, I’m 33 years old and I knew before you posted that link that the tax rate then was around 90 percent. But I’m not gullible enough to believe that the rich paid 90 percent of their income in taxes.

I don’t for one second believe that tax rates, the source of revenue to the government, make or break the middle class. It’s the economy that does. The more the government takes out of the economy the harder it makes it for the little guy like me to make it.

When the highest marginal tax was 90%, there were a slew of exceptions and deductions and special cases, which were abolished when the tax rate was cut.

For example, athletes and others who had high income one year and low income another or people who worked on commission or people who won the lottery, etc, could average their income over ten years. I actually did that, when I took a new job with a higher salary. *

These were not loopholes; they were deliberate constructions in the tax code available to everyone.

The other thing is that in the 1950’s, my dad was making $5000 per year and his house cost $13,000. So taxes on that amount of income were minimal. That SAME HOUSE today would sell for around $500,000 … and it was a little dinky Cape style with an unfinished attic [he finished it himself] on a small lot [with no garage; he built it himself by hand … NO power tools] … but in an area with good transportation to the biggie city. For us, we thought the house was a palace. It was great, and it was ours! … [and the bank’s!] And his salary today would be around $100,000 for the same job. And he would be considered “rich” today and be subject to the AMT … Alternative Minimum Tax.

That’s how much inflation and the tax code has distorted everything.*

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Originally Posted by Scott_Lafrance
3 things would fix the problem

1. Abolish the Federal Reserve system and all laws related to it.
2. Abolish “confiscatory” income taxes. Make all of them payable by the individual taxpayer rather than being confiscated by the government through the employer.
3. Move “tax day” to the first Monday of November. That is the day that all tax forms and tax checks are due to the IRS. Also, consequently, the day before voting day.
   I would disagree with this list, to the extent that this one should be #1:
4. Move “tax day” to the first Monday of November. That is the day that all tax forms and tax checks are due to the IRS. Also, consequently, the day before voting day.

AND, end the process of withholding of taxes. They would be payable in ONE LUMP SUM ON TAX DAY. Instead of people getting taxes deducted all throughout the year and then saying they got money back when they filed their return.

Originally Posted by Scott_Lafrance
3 things would fix the problem

1. Abolish the Federal Reserve system and all laws related to it.
2. Abolish “confiscatory” income taxes. Make all of them payable by the individual taxpayer rather than being confiscated by the government through the employer.
3. Move “tax day” to the first Monday of November. That is the day that all tax forms and tax checks are due to the IRS. Also, consequently, the day before voting day.

QUOTE=Monte RCMS;8092161]I would disagree with this list, to the extent that this one should be #1:

1. Move “tax day” to the first Monday of November. That is the day that all tax forms and tax checks are due to the IRS. Also, consequently, the day before voting day.

AND, end the process of withholding of taxes. They would be payable in ONE LUMP SUM ON TAX DAY. Instead of people getting taxes deducted all throughout the year and then saying they got money back when they filed their return.

I would add one more mandatory item which would cost NOTHING:

ALL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND THEIR STAFFS MUST PREPARE THEIR OWN TAX RETURNS.

That’s it. Simple. On Tax Day, either November 1st or April 15th, the members of Congress and their staffs would bring in all their papers, files, records, check stubs, etc. And sit there at their ceremonial desks in the House and Senate and start filling out the forms [filling IN the forms?]. Or, for the staffs, they would sit on the floor cross-legged with clipboards and work in that uncomfortable position.

They would have to read the instructions prepared by the Treasury Dept and the IRS at their direction as indicated in the tax laws THEY passed and struggle with the forms and the calculators. Paper forms only. No computers or software.

By the end of the day, they would come up with a better system.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I would disagree with this list, to the extent that this one should be #1:

1. Move “tax day” to the first Monday of November. That is the day that all tax forms and tax checks are due to the IRS. Also, consequently, the day before voting day.

AND, end the process of withholding of taxes. They would be payable in ONE LUMP SUM ON TAX DAY. Instead of people getting taxes deducted all throughout the year and then saying they got money back when they filed their return.

I would add one more mandatory item which would cost NOTHING:

***ALL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND THEIR STAFFS MUST PREPARE THEIR OWN TAX RETURNS. ***

That’s it. Simple. On Tax Day, either November 1st or April 15th, the members of Congress and their staffs would bring in all their papers, files, records, check stubs, etc. And sit there at their ceremonial desks in the House and Senate and start filling out the forms [filling IN the forms?]. Or, for the staffs, they would sit on the floor cross-legged with clipboards and work in that uncomfortable position.

They would have to read the instructions prepared by the Treasury Dept and the IRS at their direction as indicated in the tax laws THEY passed and struggle with the forms and the calculators. Paper forms only. No computers or software.

By the end of the day, they would come up with a better system.

 

[jomoco]

When the highest marginal tax was 90%, there were a slew of exceptions and deductions and special cases, which were abolished when the tax rate was cut.

For example, athletes and others who had high income one year and low income another or people who worked on commission or people who won the lottery, etc, could average their income over ten years. I actually did that, when I took a new job with a higher salary. *

These were not loopholes; they were deliberate constructions in the tax code available to everyone.

The other thing is that in the 1950’s, my dad was making $5000 per year and his house cost $13,000. So taxes on that amount of income were minimal. That SAME HOUSE today would sell for around $500,000 … and it was a little dinky Cape style with an unfinished attic [he finished it himself] on a small lot [with no garage; he built it himself by hand … NO power tools] … but in an area with good transportation to the biggie city. For us, we thought the house was a palace. It was great, and it was ours! … [and the bank’s!] And his salary today would be around $100,000 for the same job. And he would be considered “rich” today and be subject to the AMT … Alternative Minimum Tax.

That’s how much inflation and the tax code has distorted everything.*

Any mess that congress has created, can be repealed and corrected in the same manner it was created. American anti-trust laws can be strengthened and vigorously enforced to the same degree they were in the 50’s and 60’s. Any uppity American corps trying to outsource their labor or managerial jobs overseas to a communist country and laying off their workforce here at home, would soon find themselves out of business in America.

This notion that govt can be shrunken and minimized aint realistic, while the rest of the world and its dangers grow exponentially larger and more complicated, both numerically and atomically speaking, throw in the internet, shake well, and tell me how the good guys win this battle without a govt far more capable than today’s PhD’d bandits on Wall street, and elsewhere?

jomoco

 

[bbarrick8383]

Any mess that congress has created, can be repealed and corrected in the same manner it was created. American anti-trust laws can be strengthened and vigorously enforced to the same degree they were in the 50’s and 60’s. Any uppity American corps trying to outsource their labor or managerial jobs overseas to a communist country and laying off their workforce here at home, would soon find themselves out of business in America.

** aint realistic**
jomoco

Aint realistic…yeah, keep telling us about all this stuff that aint realistic. I’m starting to find it amusing.

 

[estesbob]

I have come to the conclusion that once someone posts “Abolish the federal reserve” the thread has irretrievably jumped the shark.

 

[RACJ]

I know, I read Sowell’s book, but why would you trust one man’s analysis of Marxism as the scriptural authority? Especially without having ever read a work by Marx himself? WHy not go straight to the source.

And Obama is not a Marxist. He’s not even close. That’s not apology, not an opinion, it’s just a fact. If Obama was a Marxist, my middle class family wouldn’t still be living in our nice, we wouldn’t still bevtaking vacations, and I (with substantial help from my parents) would be unable to pay my college tuition after having all my property seized by the state. But lo, that has not happened. No state appropriation of all bourgeois property, no abolition of division of labor, and excepting the buying out of GM, where’s the government appropriation of the means of production? Why is this “Marxist” so chummy with all these wealthy bankers? Where are all the workers marching through the streets singing La Marseillaise or L’Internationale? I’m sorry, but Obama simply is not close to being a Marxist, he’s just a liberal democrat.

Did you see the nuts and thugs in Wisconsin, who damaged their Capitol building to the tune of $7M minimun? Have you seen ACORN creeps in big cities? They're out there. This Marxist is not capable, under our Constitutional proscriptions, to destroy everything at once. But using the Cloward and Piven and Alinsky strategy, he is attempting to overwhelm it to the point of collapse. You are truly naive if you believe that the insidious man in the White House has any love for America. AGAIN, you and others fail to answer my question. Do you REALLY think that nearly $2T defits every year are sustainable? BHO SAID that he wanted a "fundamental transformation" in America. Now we KNOW beyond all doubt that what he had in mind was its ruination. And it's working. I'm glad that you are one of those folks whose house is not under water! :imsorry: Rob

PALIN/RUBIO '12!!!

 

[RACJ]

The political and economic model they are striving for is Zimbabwe.

Thanks for the laugh! It's difficult to be optimistic when I think of the future my daughters and granddaughter have in store for them, thanks to the radical left. :D Rob

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Do you have a link to Cloward-Piven?