Republican Primary

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President Reagan as governor of California (then a more conservative state) passed an abortion law that was the most heinous of it’s time to that point.

I want someone to explain, using present day political positions where Romney isn’t conservative, please.

Thanks
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
President Reagan as governor of California (then a more conservative state) passed an abortion law that was the most heinous of it’s time to that point.

I want someone to explain, using present day political positions where Romney isn’t conservative, please.

Thanks
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I don’t know what you have in mind but this kind of conservatism we don’t need, Reagan or Romney:

youtube.com/watch?v=P_w9pquznG4

youtube.com/watch?v=9CUL8I3KZO4&feature=related

youtube.com/watch?v=Kk1bJOpYUqE&feature=related
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
President Reagan as governor of California (then a more conservative state) passed an abortion law that was the most heinous of it’s time to that point.

I want someone to explain, using present day political positions where Romney isn’t conservative, please.

Thanks
Click to expand...
In a word, Romneycare.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
I want someone to explain, using present day political positions where Romney isn’t conservative, please.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I for one do not limit myself to how well one hits all the talking points on a during the campaign season. The past is relevant. Realize, we do not know his position. We only know two things. We know what he says. We know what he has done. I consider the latter a more reliable measure of a man.
 
pnewton said:
I for one do not limit myself to how well one hits all the talking points on a during the campaign season. The past is relevant. Realize, we do not know his position. We only know two things. We know what he says. We know what he has done. I consider the latter a more reliable measure of a man.
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What a coincidence. That’s how I feel about Ron Paul. 😃
 
Nec5 said:
I heard the same logic with Dole. Didn’t happen. I heard it with McCain. Didn’t happen.

If you keep accepting slop, all you’ll ever end up with is slop.
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But there are differences between those cases and now that make what you’re saying not apply to 2012:
  1. Dole vs Clinton in 1996: Clinton was perceived as a moderate - he had signed welfare reform. Also congress was controlled by the GOP - America seems to like divided government - perhaps to keep both parties in check? You had two moderates going up against each other - and the Democrat incumbent won in a time of peace and prosperity. Not sure how you can apply that to 2012.
  2. McCain vs Obama 2008: McCain was trying to win in a time of “GOP fatigue” - Bush has been in power for 8 years. The economy was in the doldrums and McCain was part of the incumbent party - atleast at the executive level. Iraq and Afghanistan didn’t help the incumbent party either. Obama successfully tricked enough voters into thinking he was some kind of moderate.
  3. Obama vs Romney 2012: Obama is a far left liberal who wants to re-shape America according to the goals of the far left. He fooled enough voters in 2008. This year he will have a much harder time of it. Romney may be a moderate - based on his record in office - but he would sign the repeal of the HHS mandate, nominate constructionist judges, and he understands how an economy works.
There is a big difference between what is going on now, what the stakes are, and the moral necessity of opposing the evil of Obama’s policies -by doing something effective to end them.

Ishii
 
mary_bobo said:
In a word, Romneycare.
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  1. He has stated again and again that he will repeal Obamacare. Having said that, it is almost certain that the SCOTUS will rule it unconstitional before then
  2. RWR passed the most sweeping pro-abortion law as governor and was a prolife President.
Again: not voting for the Republican candidate (whichever of the remaining 4 he is) is the equivalent of voting for Obama, who is the most proabortion president ever. Hold your nose if you have to, but vote Republican (even if only for just this once)
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Again: not voting for the Republican candidate (whichever of the remaining 4 he is) is the equivalent of voting for Obama, who is the most proabortion president ever. Hold your nose if you have to, but vote Republican (even if only for just this once)
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I will wait an see, then vote for the most Catholic candidate even if it is not a Democrat or Republican.
 
ishii said:
But there are differences between those cases and now that make what you’re saying not apply to 2012:
  1. Dole vs Clinton in 1996: Clinton was perceived as a moderate - he had signed welfare reform. Also congress was controlled by the GOP - America seems to like divided government - perhaps to keep both parties in check? You had two moderates going up against each other - and the Democrat incumbent won in a time of peace and prosperity. Not sure how you can apply that to 2012.
  2. McCain vs Obama 2008: McCain was trying to win in a time of “GOP fatigue” - Bush has been in power for 8 years. The economy was in the doldrums and McCain was part of the incumbent party - atleast at the executive level. Iraq and Afghanistan didn’t help the incumbent party either. Obama successfully tricked enough voters into thinking he was some kind of moderate.
  3. Obama vs Romney 2012: Obama is a far left liberal who wants to re-shape America according to the goals of the far left. He fooled enough voters in 2008. This year he will have a much harder time of it. Romney may be a moderate - based on his record in office - but he would sign the repeal of the HHS mandate, nominate constructionist judges, and he understands how an economy works.
There is a big difference between what is going on now, what the stakes are, and the moral necessity of opposing the evil of Obama’s policies -by doing something effective to end them.

Ishii
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Brilliant post, sir:thumbsup:
 
pnewton said:
I will wait an see, then vote for the most Catholic candidate even if it is not a Democrat or Republican.
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A vote for a 3rd party is a vote for Obama, though (almost no one votes for the wacko far left parties)

Perot gave us Clinton-twice. (I admit that Clinton looks like George Washington compared to Obama)
 
pnewton said:
I for one do not limit myself to how well one hits all the talking points on a during the campaign season. The past is relevant. Realize, we do not know his position. We only know two things. We know what he says. We know what he has done. I consider the latter a more reliable measure of a man.
Click to expand...
Perhaps not the best measure but I also consider the characters of spouse and children. I still think it speaks volumes that all first ladies since Jackie Kennedy have admitted being pro-choice inter alia.
 
Ishii brilliant post. So nice to see some analysis instead of bumper sticker slogans.

I am so thoroughly sick of people saying that Romney is a flip flopper therefore they don’t trust him.

A) He may have flipped but he didn’t flop. IOW while his public stance on life issues was not acceptable at one point, in his actions he proved that not only had he changed personally but that he was willing to back it up by vetoing the stem cell bill.

I do not believe for one second that he was ever pro-choice. He is a devout Mormon and they are strongly pro-life and frankly unlike a lot of Catholics they demonstrate it with large families and strong marriages. He said that Roe was “the law of the land.” That’s a fact. It’s an ugly fact but it’s a fact. FWIW so did Justice John Roberts. Do you find his stance unacceptable because he recognized that Roe is the law? We may hate it but it exists. Further had he showed his hand by saying “And I’m determined to see it overturned” do you think he’d be the Chief Justice? Sometimes you don’t start a war until you have the troops and ammunition to win.

B) Dont we WANT people who are pro choice to change? Some of you seem to think that if one is ever pro-choice there is no forgiving them. Not sure how that attitude fits with our Catholic faith. Frankly if a pro-choice person says they want to come over to our side why do we criticize them incessently for what were bad choices in the past?

Maybe I can understand this better because I grew up with atheist parents who were militantly pro abortion. My father even facilitated an abortion for a young daughter of family friends and was proud of it…disgusting. I have learned a few things and am now strongly pro life. I am NOT GOING TO GO BACK TO THE DARK SIDE PEOPLE. Do you believe me? Why don’t you believe Romney or other politicians who have changed…can we say Ronald Reagan?

You who say you won’t vote for our nominee because some single objection to him are just handing the election to Obama. When I hear this it just makes me nuts…

Lisa
 
**Rasmussen poll: Romney 48% Obama 43, Santorum 46% Obama 45%
**
With the perception growing that he will be the GOP nominee, Romney leads President Obama by five points in a hypothetical 2012 matchup. Today’s numbers show Romney at 48%, Obama at 43%. That’s Romney’s largest lead since December.
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If Santorum is the Republican nominee, he is up by one point over the president, 46% to 45%. This is the second time since polling began in 2011 that Santorum has had a slight lead over Obama. Romney is the only other candidate to lead the president more than one time in the polls.
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rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
 
LisaA said:
B) Dont we WANT people who are pro choice to change? Some of you seem to think that if one is ever pro-choice there is no forgiving them.
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Lisa, I’ve heard similar arguments from those voting for other pro-choice candidates, that they’ll pray for them once in office that they will change, or something to that effect.

I think it still behooves one to do some DD and look at their entire character, not what they say for the sake of raising money, wowing delegages, and running a campaign.
 
ProVobis said:
Lisa, I’ve heard similar arguments from those voting for other pro-choice candidates, that they’ll pray for them once in office that they will change, or something to that effect.

I think it still behooves one to do some DD and look at their entire character, not what they say for the sake of raising money, wowing delegages, and running a campaign.
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Sure but again Romney is not pro-choice and I don’t think he ever was pro-choice. He acknowledged that Roe was the law of the land. So did Justice Roberts. So did Justice Alito. I bet if we looked back at when Antone Scalia was nominated he probably had to acknowledge he understood Roe was the law. Has he ever been in the same league as John Kerry or Bill Clinton or even “Republicans” like Arlen Spector?

There would be a lot more difficulty if someone who was well known as an abortion supporter who changed to pro-life but we’ve seen it in people like Abby Johnson and Dr Nathienson (sp) the doc whose performed thousands of abortions and I believe testified for abortion “rights.” Why do people eagerly believe these people but don’t believe Romney? Why do people think Reagan changed but not Romney? He is not an untrustworthy man in his other endeavors. Look at his family and the way he stood by his wife through two serious illnesses.

Contrast that with Newt whom I like a lot but wonder at his personal morals. OTOH people jump to support Newt and say well he’s changed and he’s a devout Catholic now so no worries he’ll go off the reservatione. Heck even Saint Santorum voted to support Planned Parenthood. Oh he can say well it was for the Title 10 Clinics as if money were not fungible. He also supported Spector who was a disaster in his final years. He voted against Right to Work laws. Far as I can see, Santorum is far more of a political animal, doing things he knows are not right but for political reasons.

So I guess what I’m saying is apply the same standard to all of them and don’t forgive in Santorum or Gingrich the same unacceptable behavior/positions in them if you aren’t willing to give the same grace to Romney.

Lisa
 
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