Republican senator announces support for gay marriage

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The ‘change in heart’ is based on ridiculous reasoning. No doubt the MSM and the supporters of gay ‘marriage’ will use this to further their agenda. What a RINO this guy is.
Indeed, I think it was quite irresponsible to sort of shoot from the hip without thinking of the ramifications to both his constituants and his party. Rather like Todd Akin with a slightly less serious case of foot in mouth disease.

At best he sounds unprincipled if not two faced, phony and disingenuous. Nothing worse than changing your mind only because your ox was gored.

Lisa
 
This is what I do not understand. So many seem so unconcerned about the fate of our children. How can anyone of goodwill favor indoctrinating children into such an evil ideology?
I do care about the children, but if we hit the ‘truth’ of ‘homosexuality’ than hopefully for most it will not eventuate to the children, the truth needs to be exposed:

I know myself that the acts of ‘homosexuality’ are a disordered desire that is not natural or normal at all, so therefore it should not be persued and it is something to be controled and not encouraged.

Now imagine telling a homosexual this, how hard it would be for them, no doubt that’s why alot would become desperate and become depressed or even contemplate sucide etc.

The depression rate of homosexuals is far greater than for anyone else (not sure the percentage but I know it is) and this is why.

It is because in their foremind or deep down they know that their desires are disordered, but hetrosexuals also have disordered desires aswell that we must control, we must be telling them that they themselves are not infact disordered and that they can still live a full and fruitful life with the rest of us, with Christ, in controlling their desires.

So knowing this, a truth that all homosexuals and hetrosexuals already know whether it is in their foremind of shoved deep down inside, I ask myself why would they be supporting the acts of ‘homosexuality’ to be ecouraging that kind of behaviour?

The answer is that they see that it is a disordered desire, but to tell a homosexual what I have mentioned above and what we are all saying, would be no doubt very hard and depressing for them to hear, because it may be the truth, but it is a painful truth, this is why other hetrosexuals think that by telling them a lie, by saying “Your desires are fine, your desires are not disordered at all, it’s everyone else who doesn’t understand, who are intolorent, who are attacking who you are, we need to get the message out that homosexuals should be able to live a lifestyle the same as hetrosexuals do in the gifts of marriage and family.” that this lie will help them feel more acceptable and content with themselves.

This lie that people are telling homosexuals is only going to worsen the situation that they are in, as it already has, because they are saying to homosexuals that their goal (to live a lifestyle like hetrosexuals do) is an achievable goal, when infact it is obviously a very unachievable goal, so by passing these laws for same sex marriage’s etc, they are encouraging homosexuals to aim for an unachievable goal, they don’t see it now, but when they have exhausted all opposition, until there is nothing in their way, they will get to the end of their destructive path and realise that the goal they set their sights on, the goal in which others opposed, was infact an unachievable goal, that they could never obtain it, no matter how hard they tried, no matter how many people they stepped on in trying to achieve it.

So we need to be telling hetrosexuals that are supporting homosexual acts such as same sex marriage, that they are trying to do the right thing, but infact they are doing the wrong thing and making it worse by being cruel towards homosexuals, because they are telling them a lie, that their unachievable goal for equality with hetrosexual acts, is achievable, so than people start believing a lie, in which will become more and more evident how unachievable it actually is the more and more homosexuals try to persue it.

If we can help everyone to see that, the goal for equality as a homosexual or for homosexual’s is an unachievable goal, their cross may become heavy by accepting their disordered desires and letting go of that goal that they want, but ultimatly it will be lighter than if they try to persue their desires, because if they try and persue their desires, they will get to the end of their destructive path only to find that their goal was infact impossible to achieve in the first place, and this cross will be far heavier than the one at the beginning, the one of acceptance, of being content with themselves and controling their disordered desires through Christ.

This is how we can help, this is why those in support for same sex relations are labeling us as ‘hate speech’ because they don’t see the harm that they are causing to the homosexuals that they are trying to help, because infact the ones in support are causing more harm to homosexuals than we are, those who are against same sex relations are the ones who are really helping homosexuals, we need everyone to see this.

I no longer feel threatened by gay-activists, I feel pity for them, because they have no idea of the harm they will inflict on themselves and others.

So it’s not whether or not we want to legalise homosexual marriage etc, it’s whether or not we want to tell them a lie, which I think is a cruel thing to do.

Thank you for reading
Josh.
 
The words of emptiness and the emptiness of words. All is nothing and nothing is all.

Pure gibberish.
If their view of emptiness is wrong,
those of little intelligence will be hurt.
Like handling a snake in the wrong way,
or casting a spell in the wrong way.

– Nagarjuna Mulamadhyamakakarika 24:11

Your appreciation of the details of Buddhist philosophy is lacking. How much Nagarjuna have you read?

rossum
 
This is how we can help, this is why those in support for same sex relations are labeling us as ‘hate speech’ because they don’t see the harm that they are causing to the homosexuals that they are trying to help, because infact the ones in support are causing more harm to homosexuals than we are, those who are against same sex relations are the ones who are really helping homosexuals, we need everyone to see this.

I no longer feel threatened by gay-activists, I feel pity for them, because they have no idea of the harm they will inflict on themselves and others.

So it’s not whether or not we want to legalise homosexual marriage etc, it’s whether or not we want to tell them a lie, which I think is a cruel thing to do.

Thank you for reading
Josh.
Josh I read your post several times and still not sure of your point but this is what I THINK you mean; that we should not stand in the way of homosexual activists who want to upend traditonal marriage because their miserable and disordered lives are punishment enough.

Is this your suggestion?

If so, I have to disagree because of the collateral damage that such social experiments caused in past instances and what many of us suggest will happen in the future. A “cost benefit” analysis leads me to believe we should continue to fight against this change and focus on the collateral damage to children, religious liberty and the freedom of private organizations to operate as they see fit.

Lisa
 
So we need to be telling hetrosexuals that are supporting homosexual acts such as same sex marriage, that they are trying to do the right thing, but infact they are doing the wrong thing and making it worse by being cruel towards homosexuals, because they are telling them a lie, that their unachievable goal for equality with hetrosexual acts, is achievable, so than people start believing a lie, in which will become more and more evident how unachievable it actually is the more and more homosexuals try to persue it.

Josh.
That will never happen josh. Too many fallacies have taken easy root in our increasingly shallow and narcissistic society.

Heterosexual advocates of same-sex marriage find relief and an illusion of freedom from the lack of moral restraints that are exemplified in the extreme acceptance of gay “marriage”. You will find that most of these advocates also support divorce, abortion, and unrestrained feminism. They are the coalition of narcissistic moral relativism. Their very identity is wrapped up in the delusion of free-expression-of-love-without-shame. For these advocates to promote personal responsibility in the homosexual movement, they would have to accept personal responsibility for their own sordid lives. And there is no way they would ever do that.

I applaud your charitable intentions, but as a former member of the liberal progressive Left, I can assure you you will be wasting your precious time. Your energies would be better served saving the children from this runaway society of imploding self indulgence. It’s time to shake the dust of this culture off of your shoes and let your peace return to you.

Time will prove that my words are wisdom. I know from whence I came.:o
 
If their view of emptiness is wrong,
those of little intelligence will be hurt.
Like handling a snake in the wrong way,
or casting a spell in the wrong way.

– Nagarjuna Mulamadhyamakakarika 24:11

Your appreciation of the details of Buddhist philosophy is lacking. How much Nagarjuna have you read?

rossum
How exactly does one “appreciate” nothingness? How does nothingness possess “details”?

How much Chesterton have you read?
 
The ‘change in heart’ is based on ridiculous reasoning. No doubt the MSM and the supporters of gay ‘marriage’ will use this to further their agenda. What a RINO this guy is.
His logic is stunningly bad, and the only reason it has support among the left is because they agree with the end result, not the logic itself.

Again, if you think something is wrong, it is wrong. He must think everything his son ever did wrong is now okay. Underage drinking, failing a test, missing curfew - all good things. If his son has an affair, will he endorse adultery? He was weak in his faith, and obviously, never that grounded in the strength of a strong conviction to begin with. Only people with weak beliefs (like the President) change that quickly. Unless of course, they never really believed it to begin with…

Portman was tested by God, and unfortunately (as many of us do), he failed. He was told to sacrifice his son like Abraham, and he balked.

I am sympathetic, because I am sure he loves his son, but he should love God more. I hope he gets voted out the next time around.

Social moderates are no friend to this country or to God.
 
If their view of emptiness is wrong,
those of little intelligence will be hurt.
Like handling a snake in the wrong way,
or casting a spell in the wrong way.

– Nagarjuna Mulamadhyamakakarika 24:11

rossum
“The center of every man’s existence is a dream. Death, disease, insanity, are merely material accidents, like a toothache or a twisted ankle. That these brutal forces always besiege and often capture the citadel does not prove that they are the citadel.”

― G.K. Chesterton *
 
Josh I read your post several times and still not sure of your point but this is what I THINK you mean; that we should not stand in the way of homosexual activists who want to upend traditonal marriage because their miserable and disordered lives are punishment enough.

Is this your suggestion?

If so, I have to disagree because of the collateral damage that such social experiments caused in past instances and what many of us suggest will happen in the future. A “cost benefit” analysis leads me to believe we should continue to fight against this change and focus on the collateral damage to children, religious liberty and the freedom of private organizations to operate as they see fit.

Lisa
No! Im saying we should oppose homosexual activists by showing them this truth, that they think they are trying to help, but actually they are telling a lie, and this lie in the end will cause more harm than the good they hope to come out of it.

I was viewing everything how you are all viewing it now!

I was asking myself how can they not see the horrible acts of homosexuality, the truth of homosexuality?

When, how could they not on some level see this truth?

I should have been asking myself, why are they choosing to ignore this truth?

That’s what I have outlined in my previous post and now that we know why, we know how to attack it.

Thank you for reading
Josh.
 
I do care about the children, but if we hit the ‘truth’ of ‘homosexuality’ than hopefully for most it will not eventuate to the children, the truth needs to be exposed:

I know myself that the acts of ‘homosexuality’ are a disordered desire that is not natural or normal at all, so therefore it should not be persued and it is something to be controled and not encouraged.

Now imagine telling a homosexual this, how hard it would be for them, no doubt that’s why alot would become desperate and become depressed or even contemplate sucide etc.

The depression rate of homosexuals is far greater than for anyone else (not sure the percentage but I know it is) and this is why.

It is because in their foremind or deep down they know that their desires are disordered, but hetrosexuals also have disordered desires aswell that we must control, we must be telling them that they themselves are not infact disordered and that they can still live a full and fruitful life with the rest of us, with Christ, in controlling their desires.

So knowing this, a truth that all homosexuals and hetrosexuals already know whether it is in their foremind of shoved deep down inside, I ask myself why would they be supporting the acts of ‘homosexuality’ to be ecouraging that kind of behaviour?

The answer is that they see that it is a disordered desire, but to tell a homosexual what I have mentioned above and what we are all saying, would be no doubt very hard and depressing for them to hear, because it may be the truth, but it is a painful truth, this is why other hetrosexuals think that by telling them a lie, by saying “Your desires are fine, your desires are not disordered at all, it’s everyone else who doesn’t understand, who are intolorent, who are attacking who you are, we need to get the message out that homosexuals should be able to live a lifestyle the same as hetrosexuals do in the gifts of marriage and family.” that this lie will help them feel more acceptable and content with themselves.

This lie that people are telling homosexuals is only going to worsen the situation that they are in, as it already has, because they are saying to homosexuals that their goal (to live a lifestyle like hetrosexuals do) is an achievable goal, when infact it is obviously a very unachievable goal, so by passing these laws for same sex marriage’s etc, they are encouraging homosexuals to aim for an unachievable goal, they don’t see it now, but when they have exhausted all opposition, until there is nothing in their way, they will get to the end of their destructive path and realise that the goal they set their sights on, the goal in which others opposed, was infact an unachievable goal, that they could never obtain it, no matter how hard they tried, no matter how many people they stepped on in trying to achieve it.

So we need to be telling hetrosexuals that are supporting homosexual acts such as same sex marriage, that they are trying to do the right thing, but infact they are doing the wrong thing and making it worse by being cruel towards homosexuals, because they are telling them a lie, that their unachievable goal for equality with hetrosexual acts, is achievable, so than people start believing a lie, in which will become more and more evident how unachievable it actually is the more and more homosexuals try to persue it.

If we can help everyone to see that, the goal for equality as a homosexual or for homosexual’s is an unachievable goal, their cross may become heavy by accepting their disordered desires and letting go of that goal that they want, but ultimatly it will be lighter than if they try to persue their desires, because if they try and persue their desires, they will get to the end of their destructive path only to find that their goal was infact impossible to achieve in the first place, and this cross will be far heavier than the one at the beginning, the one of acceptance, of being content with themselves and controling their disordered desires through Christ.

This is how we can help, this is why those in support for same sex relations are labeling us as ‘hate speech’ because they don’t see the harm that they are causing to the homosexuals that they are trying to help, because infact the ones in support are causing more harm to homosexuals than we are, those who are against same sex relations are the ones who are really helping homosexuals, we need everyone to see this.

I no longer feel threatened by gay-activists, I feel pity for them, because they have no idea of the harm they will inflict on themselves and others.

So it’s not whether or not we want to legalise homosexual marriage etc, it’s whether or not we want to tell them a lie, which I think is a cruel thing to do.

Thank you for reading
Josh.
 
Do you really equate what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their home to an adult raping a child??? These things are exactly the same in your eyes? And where is adultery and pre-marital sex on your list of evil things? I notice that never gets brought up in the comparisons-it’s always raping children and animals.

This is one reason why the Catholic Church has so much trouble gaining ground on this issue. Nobody rails against the sins heterosexuals commit on a regular basis-they only scream about the sin that less than 10% of the population would ever have the slightest inclination to consider. Nobody wants to tick off 90% of the population, so they don’t compare the sins they might commit to raping children and animals.
True, and the sad thing is that, due to these attitudes there are many Gays who commit suicide, there are others who feel shunned and are emotionally damaged because of the attitudes of people who, because they are not gay, think that they have a pipeline to The Man Upstairs.

At least Portman’s son will probably not be found hanging in his closet, and he will be able to share his life and his family with his original family.

I understand that many people who are writing in this thread are convinced that they have taken the right course because they refuse to respect the civil rights of the Gay community, I want to remind them that NO ONE is saying that the church should change it’s laws, however, the issue is not changing churches, it’s changing the civil rights as practiced in the communities. There are gay marriages that last until one partner dies, plenty of them.

There are many WRONG things happening in the world today, the Iraq war comes to mind as a biggie, so many American youth died and for what? There are families that have gone bankrupt because of medical problems of one member. Worst of all, in a country where there are families who throw out 70 dollars worth of food a week, there are also people who are hungry, all are worthy issues to be fought either for or against, Gay marriage is not one of them.

I’m certain that at least one pope demanded that all Gays were to be loved and respected, he did not said ‘except the married ones’…I know that a married Gay couple will never be welcomed in a Catholic church, that they will miss the joy of community and the spiritual benefits of Catholicism, but there will be churches that will say that they are welcome and will treat them with the love and respect they deserve. As for me, I wish them well. And I respect the senator who made a dangerous decision to come out himself in spite of the retribution he will and has received from the voters and from many in the Catholic community.
 
“The center of every man’s existence is a dream. Death, disease, insanity, are merely material accidents, like a toothache or a twisted ankle. That these brutal forces always besiege and often capture the citadel does not prove that they are the citadel.”

― G.K. Chesterton *
As stars, a fault of vision, as a lamp,
A mock show, dew drops, or a bubble,
A dream, a lightning flash, or a cloud,
So should one view what is conditioned.

– Diamond sutra 32

rossum
 
True, and the sad thing is that, due to these attitudes there are many Gays who commit suicide, there are others who feel shunned and are emotionally damaged because of the attitudes of people who, because they are not gay, think that they have a pipeline to The Man Upstairs.

At least Portman’s son will probably not be found hanging in his closet, and he will be able to share his life and his family with his original family.
Don’t you see what I have said?

Portman did the wrong thing, instead of helping his son by helping him with the truth, he has told his son and himself a lie, a lie that will make them feel better for the time being, but in the end this lie will cause more harm than the good they hoped to come from it.

Please read my above quoted post again.

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
Indeed, I think it was quite irresponsible to sort of shoot from the hip without thinking of the ramifications to both his constituants and his party. Rather like Todd Akin with a slightly less serious case of foot in mouth disease.

At best he sounds unprincipled if not two faced, phony and disingenuous. Nothing worse than changing your mind only because your ox was gored.

Lisa
Hardly the same thing, and he’s been in politics for years, he decided that his kid was more important than his job.
Besides I don’t understand your second comment, of course if your ox was being gored due to your own stupidity you would change your mind. Before new information became available the best minds in the world thought that the world was flat, changing your mind is a sign of maturity and continuous learning.
 
As stars, a fault of vision, as a lamp,
A mock show, dew drops, or a bubble,
A dream, a lightning flash, or a cloud,
So should one view what is conditioned.

– Diamond sutra 32

rossum
"I want to love my neighbour not because he is I, but precisely because he is not I. I want to adore the world, not as one likes a looking-glass, because it is one’s self, but as one loves a woman, because she is entirely different. If souls are separate love is possible. If souls are united love is obviously impossible. A man may be said loosely to love himself, but he can hardly fall in love with himself, or, if he does, it must be a monotonous courtship. If the world is full of real selves, they can be really unselfish selves. But upon Mrs. Besant’s principle the whole cosmos is only one enormously selfish person.

It is just here that Buddhism is on the side of modern pantheism and immanence. And it is just here that Christianity is on the side of humanity and liberty and love. Love desires personality; therefore love desires division. It is the instinct of Christianity to be glad that God has broken the universe into little pieces, because they are living pieces. It is her instinct to say “little children love one another” rather than to tell one large person to love himself. This is the intellectual abyss between Buddhism and Christianity; that for the Buddhist or Theosophist personality is the fall of man, for the Christian it is the purpose of God, the whole point of his cosmic idea. The world-soul of the Theosophists asks man to love it only in order that man may throw himself into it. But the divine centre of Christianity actually threw man out of it in order that he might love it. The oriental deity is like a giant who should have lost his leg or hand and be always seeking to find it; but the Christian power is like some giant who in a strange generosity should cut off his right hand, so that it might of its own accord shake hands with him."
  • G.K.Chesterton (The Romance of Orthodoxy)
 
Don’t you see what I have said?

Portman did the wrong thing, instead of helping his son by telling him the truth, he has told his son and himself a lie, a lie that will make them feel better for the time being, but in the end this lie will cause more harm than the good they hoped to come from it.

Please read my above quoted post again.

Thank you for reading
Josh
Josh, thank you for your comment, however I disagree with the original premise, I believe that people are born gay, why would anyone embrace the lifestyle unless they were naturally inclined towards it? Put up with the abuse, the high handedness of certain non Gays, the outright cruelty of some, (thinking of Matthew Shepard here). ???
Jesus never addressed the issue of homosexuality. If it had been all that important He would have mentioned it. Jesus did say that the greatest of these is charity.
It took great courage for Portman to come out with his statement, I respect him for it.
 
Josh, thank you for your comment, however I disagree with the original premise, I believe that people are born gay, why would anyone embrace the lifestyle unless they were naturally inclined towards it? Put up with the abuse, the high handedness of certain non Gays, the outright cruelty of some, (thinking of Matthew Shepard here). ???
Jesus never addressed the issue of homosexuality. If it had been all that important He would have mentioned it. Jesus did say that the greatest of these is charity.
It took great courage for Portman to come out with his statement, I respect him for it.
No! please read my above quoted post again, I don’t know how you could miss it, Portman along with you only think that they are doing the right thing, but what you are saying is a lie.

He may have been born gay, but we are all born with some disordered desires that we must control.

Portman should have said to his son “the truth is that those desires are disordered, no different to disordered desires that everyone else suffers from including hetrosexuals, we must control them, Im in no way saying that you yourself are disordered, becuase that is not true, you are no different to anyone else able and capable to live a full and fruitful life with Christ, but to try and aim for a lifestyle that’s the same as a hetrosexual one with those desires, is only going to cause you more harm as the reality of those desires you are acting on will become more evident the more you persue them, carry your cross with me in opposing our disordered desires that we all suffer from.”

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
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