This is where I seem to have a problem accepting that we are not accountable to God for other souls which we may lead astray. Same would seem to be true for scandal. I tend to think that, for example, a priest who leads many souls down the wrong road by teaching something false is also somehow responsible for all the souls that may be lost as a result.
Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Now would you say that the men who do these things to women and ultimately if a woman were to fall, that the man would share some responsibility in providing the occasion of sin for this woman? Your opinion welcome.
Lobster.Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Now would you say that the men who do these things to women and ultimately if a woman were to fall, that the man would share some responsibility in providing the occasion of sin for this woman? Your opinion welcome.
… but I just want to make sure you did see my response to you which I posted on page 1. Due to the fact that it was a bit extensive it became the last post on that page. But at least I think I adequately explained my thoughts to you, as a 26 year old Catholic woman who has thought about this problematics a lot.It’s all right. I don’t think you were trying to intentionally be disrespectful. I believe you. And, this is the place for you. There’s people from a lot of different backgrounds and persuasions and I’ve learned a lot from my time here. I’m thankful to have found this place. I’ve been lurking since 2004.After reading through a couple of the other threads on this forum I can see this is a very touchy subject for some and I did not realize it strikes such a strong nerve in some people who find it offensive. I will try to be more respectful of those people. Although I posted (my very first post to these forums having just joined) in complete sincerity wanting to discuss this topic to broaden my understanding, I will in the future be more careful to respect others feelings and not ask about things which are too controversial. In all honesty I stumbled upon these forums and figured it would be a great way to learn more about my faith and ways in which I can get more help in learning to live more charitably with others around me.
Welcome to the Forum. Lobster. You must be feeling rather like a real lobster who has been in the pot for awhile.
Lobster, we all have a duty to respect other persons feelings as we express our views whether we agree or do not agree with the original poster or any other poster.
Yes, we have a responsibility for setting a good example and helping people. But we cannot be held responsible for what they do when they are away from us. We cannot be with them 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
Again something which has a lot of truth in it. But there are limits. I believe that what people wear influences what they can and cannot do.
There are some things that most people would agree are inappproriate - at least in some situations eg few people would consider a bathing suit suitable for going to the mall. So it’s not too much asking people not to wear them there.
The second post I’ll link to is one I wrote in response to a user who criticized my first one, and in particular my thoughts on the responsibility women bear towards their brothers in not presenting an occasion of temptation. This post itself is important in a way similar to the way the above quotation is, because I try hard to talk very specifically about how many men’s minds work in general and how women dressed in various ways can be a temptation. forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4701772&postcount=233
Anyone who leads another into sin by what they do/say, or how they act, are partially responsible for the sin committed. That being said, the one sinning isn’t guilt free, but it is shared. The accountability of each before God will be determined by the intention of the tempter and the desire/perseverance in avoiding the temptation of the tempted. Redundant enough?
I agree but women should wear modest clothes in order not to visually entice lust in men since men are visual. If a woman is wearing clothing to entice lust in men, then she is technically at greater fault than the man because she is in a premeditated position. As they say “dressed to kill”.
A woman should wear womens clothing. As deurteronomy says that a woman who wears man clothings is an abomination to him. Putting women in suits and black tuxs is just as bad as wearing revealing clothing. As timothy states, women should wear modest humble apparel.
This sums up what I was getting at. Since men are ‘visual’ and since women know this fact, that would seem to indicate women have a responsibility to take extra care in that regard.
This is what I was asking in my OP. I would agree that we can indeed be responsible for the sins of others. In the case of scandal for example, being responsible for all the souls we lead astray. If we were to teach an innocent child something immoral, could we not say we are now responsible for that child’s behaviour? Are not parents responsible for their childrens’ behaviour? Do they share some of the burden of instructing them properly in the faith so they get to heaven? If they become lost surely we will have to answer for them being lost. If our answer is we did everything in our power to bring them up correctly and they still become lost, then we may be given mercy. If our answer is they can fend for themselves and decide on their own, we don’t have much to say on our behalves. If women say wear whatever we want and say let men control themselves, it is not my responsibility, would such women also not have much to say on their behalves for the souls lost because of their indifference?
I totally agree, none of this excuses the personal guilt of the sinner himself, but that the guilt is shared by others as well. I would however go so far as to believe the culpability of the sinner may be reduced when subjected to unwanted temptation presented purposefully by others.That being said, the one sinning isn’t guilt free, but it is shared. The accountability of each before God will be determined by the intention of the tempter and the desire/perseverance in avoiding the temptation of the tempted. Redundant enough?
A woman who stirs up a man’s fantasies is sinning, wouldn’t you agree?
Indeed the way one dresses can be seducing.
When she blatantly seduces vulnerable men with very provocative attire, she indeed shares some culpability in the sinful effects spiraling from grace being blotted out of the situation.
Incorrect. It is neither hers nor even likely his fault if he is crazy.
Depends on the specific situation. Yes it is possible to provoke someone to sin. She may have provoked him, she may not have. Need more specifics.
Morality doesn’t need to be sold. It needs to be abided with by all.