Resurrection is a false concept

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Bahman said:
That is incorrect since otherwise God wouldn’t bother to combine soul and mater to create human.
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That makes no sense. Just because something doesn’t NEED a body, it doesn’t mean it can’t make use of one. So, that is correct: a soul CAN exist without a body, just as it CAN exist WITH(IN) a body.

Bahman, infinity is a concept beyond your comprehension, evidenced by your lack of understanding what God is considered to be. People have pointed out where your premises are wrong, concerning the Catholic understanding, but you deny their arguments with a childish “I don’t agree, so you are wrong”. This discussion has become effectively useless: we don’t accept your (supposedly) perfect arguments, and you won’t accept that you don’t really understand the concepts you speak of.

And, before you even ask: you show that you don’t understand of the God “concept” whenever you say “God can’t”. Let’s suppose God was a human invention: we invented the concept of God as something that can do just about everything. Period. He can make the impossible happen, He just won’t do it.

By that premise only, God can locate something that doesn’t exist in a place that doesn’t exist. He is **that **powerful. If He can create a place, then He can place whatever He wants in it.

Can we please stop arguing this already? I am starting to think Bahman some sort of troll, because this has reached ridiculous levels of stubbornness already.
 
robsully said:
Repeating your premise over and over is not proof. Please supply your evidence.
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Where does soul goes after death? Into immaterial world where there is no concept of space and time unless you believe contrary. Soul however cannot be located inside immaterial world since there is no concept of space there. Hence the resurrection is impossible because God cannot find soul.
 
You said:
…a soul doesn’t need a body to be functional…
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You said:
that is incorrect since the soul lives with God after death, and functions.
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Bahman said:
What is the point of resurrection if soul can function without body?
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Actually a persons soul is in an state after death that is not normal …for man is an embodied soul and will not be what he is fully meant to be until the resurrection.

Until the resurrection yes God enables man to “function” in that different not normal for him state - so yes he normally “needs a body to be functional” but given the fact that the soul has separated from the body at death - God enables it to function in a special way one could say.

Remember the resurrection of the just is not simply a return to normal life! Tis not just a “coming back to bodily life” but a coming event that out-stripes our thought and our frame of reference now.

“We look forward to the resurrection”…what joy that will be …beyond what we could imagine now.
 
NovusFidem said:
That makes no sense. Just because something doesn’t NEED a body, it doesn’t mean it can’t make use of one. So, that is correct: a soul CAN exist without a body, just as it CAN exist WITH(IN) a body.
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This is not related to the claim presented in OP. The main question is where does soul goes after death? Soul does go into immaterial world where there is no concept of time and space. Nothing can however be located in this world since nothing can occupy any room hence God cannot find soul and perform the resurrection.
NovusFidem said:
Bahman, infinity is a concept beyond your comprehension, evidenced by your lack of understanding what God is considered to be. People have pointed out where your premises are wrong, concerning the Catholic understanding, but you deny their arguments with a childish “I don’t agree, so you are wrong”. This discussion has become effectively useless: we don’t accept your (supposedly) perfect arguments, and you won’t accept that you don’t really understand the concepts you speak of.
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Then what is the point of creating a philosophy forum here? God cannot possibly perform something which is logically impossible. This is the main point of this thread. Do you believe that God could perform something which is logically impossible?
NovusFidem said:
And, before you even ask: you show that you don’t understand of the God “concept” whenever you say “God can’t”. Let’s suppose God was a human invention: we invented the concept of God as something that can do just about everything. Period. He can make the impossible happen, He just won’t do it.
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That is ridiculous. If some action is impossible then it is by definition impossible. I think you need to think more before you try to argue something.
NovusFidem said:
By that premise only, God can locate something that doesn’t exist in a place that doesn’t exist. He is **that **powerful. If He can create a place, then He can place whatever He wants in it.
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Please read previous comment.
NovusFidem said:
Can we please stop arguing this already? I am starting to think Bahman some sort of troll, because this has reached ridiculous levels of stubbornness already.
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No I cannot stop arguing. Why do you even bother when you think that God can do impossible thing? This forum is for people who are interested to provide an argument and “God can perform impossible things” is only a false claim. This claim is ridiculous.
 
Bahman said:
No I meant what I wrote: I am happy that you accepted the fact that soul doesn’t occupy any room upon the death. This however means that the soul cannot be located hence resurrection is impossible.

Assuming that God could create soul upon conception, God cannot locate soul hence he cannot unite soul with the matter to create body. Conception and resurrection suffer from the same problem.
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I am sorry but I do not see where I said the soul does not occupy any room upon death.

The soul is alive and well in all human beings. Just because you cannot see the soul in this world with your eyes does not prove it does not exist.

You seem to believe you can put restraints on God. You cannot do that, unless you can prove to us here that you are above God and restrain him.

Nothing is IMPOSSIBLE for God. NOTHING. So if nothing is impossible for God, this we have seen. God showed how he can even take away death. Which he has done, and many have seen.

God has and can do anything, and has proven himself to many. But God does not have to prove himself to everyone or anyone for that fact to have people believe in him. But for those who give their whole heart and Soul, which you deny, God does great things.

Not because he has to, but because he chooses to.

So until you can prove what God can and cannot do, you are pretty much out in the cold here. Which you cannot do, for no one has the mind of God.
 
Bookcat said:
Actually a persons soul is in an state after death that is not normal …for man is an embodied soul and will not be what he is fully meant to be until the resurrection.

Until the resurrection yes God enables man to “function” in that different not normal for him state - so yes he normally “needs a body to be functional” but given the fact that the soul has separated from the body at death - God enables it to function in a special way one could say.

Remember the resurrection of the just is not simply a return to normal life! Tis not just a “coming back to bodily life” but a coming event that out-stripes our thought and our frame of reference now.

“We look forward to the resurrection”…what joy that will be …beyond what we could imagine now.
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Are these part of revelation or what Church claims?
 
Bahman said:
Are these part of revelation or what Church claims?
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The Resurrection yes is quite central to Revelation.

As to the “functioning of a person” after death but before the Resurrection - that they do “function” that is part of Revelation - “how” they do is part of reasoning from Revelation - in Theology and Philosophy.

And Church Teachings are not something the “Church Claims”.
 
jonathan_hili said:
If the soul needs a location for a person to be resurrected seems to be based on the idea that a soul needs a location for a person to have one. However, souls are immaterial and therefore cannot have a location by that very definition. If this is what you are arguing, you seem to be saying people cannot have souls at all.

If, on the other hand, you are arguing that a soul needs to be embodied to exist, that’s a different matter, and one that Aquinas wrestled with. Certainly, a human soul is incomplete without a body, but it doesn’t follow that the soul cannot exist disembodied. There are other immaterial beings, like angels, who exist disembodied and I don’t think it’s metaphysically impossible for God to sustain the soul in a disembodied state.
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You bring up the only real reason to argue anything about a soul.

Bahman’s idea is either not understood by all of us or it’s so totally out of the realm of consideration that discussion is to be dismissed. The God who created souls to begin with can surely find them no matter where they are. What is impossible to God? And to argue the validity of the resurrection on this is totally useless.

However, I wondered why Aquinas would wrestle with the idea of a soul existing without a body. The question becomes: Where do we go upon death? Christianity, not only catholicism, believes that we go immediately to be where we’re supposed to be. Our soul goes there, not our body. But we’ll feel like ourselves and be conscious of ourselves and will still be “I”.

So the soul is going to a different dimension, not really a place. Seems like a small feat to me that the God who created everything will be able to get that soul back into my body at the resurrection. it seemed to have worked for Jesus! And He is the resurrection, so whatever happened with Him, will also happen with us.

Read some study that was done years ago which found that the body lost a minute amount of weight at death. I had thought that this could be caused by all air leaving the body (our breath) but surely the researchers must have taken this into consideration.

Anyway, just wanted to mention about Aquinas. I was surprised to hear he had to wrestle with the idea.

Fran
 
rinnie said:
I am sorry but I do not see where I said the soul does not occupy any room upon death.

The soul is alive and well in all human beings. Just because you cannot see the soul in this world with your eyes does not prove it does not exist.

You seem to believe you can put restraints on God. You cannot do that, unless you can prove to us here that you are above God and restrain him.

Nothing is IMPOSSIBLE for God. NOTHING. So if nothing is impossible for God, this we have seen. God showed how he can even take away death. Which he has done, and many have seen.

God has and can do anything, and has proven himself to many. But God does not have to prove himself to everyone or anyone for that fact to have people believe in him. But for those who give their whole heart and Soul, which you deny, God does great things.

Not because he has to, but because he chooses to.

So until you can prove what God can and cannot do, you are pretty much out in the cold here. Which you cannot do, for no one has the mind of God.
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Could we agree that God cannot perform any act which is logically impossible?
 
I’m surprised to see all the people so offended if you say there is no Santa Claus, as he has been depicted.( flying in a sled with enough toys for every kid in the world.)

In Dec. I play all the Christmas songs, except “Grandma got Run Over by a Reindeer.”

I always end with, “Silent Night”, though. The Real meaning of Christmas. 👍
 
In Dec. I play all the Christmas songs, except “Grandma got Run Over by a Reindeer.”
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I hate that song, plus a few others. (Santa Baby, Dominic the Donkey).
 
You claim God cannot create something that is logically impossible. Where was that ever said? Just because you cannot understand something it is impossible right?

If that is your stance, you have a big problem. Or you should be running the world if you have all the answers.

Here is an example. We have One God who is made up of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. That is a fact. It is the true word of God.

But how can One God be made into the 3 persons, but yet be one God? To you it is logically impossible, but in reality it is the true word of God.

So it shows us all one thing, God said it, he means it, and it is the true word that he has spoken. But we have a problem, he understands it, but did not give us as humans a clear understanding of it.

This creates another huge problem for you, but not us. We know that God will reveal this to us when he chooses, and then we will have the true understanding.

Jesus said I am the lamb of God who takes the way the sins of the world. Not one Apostle understood this at the time he said it. They did not understand it until he laid down his life like a lamb, and died for the sins of all.

Again, my point, there is no way anyone could understand why he said that. Until he opened their minds to this understanding. Which makes a clear case for God, and not so good case for you.

So you would claim God cannot be the Son, God cannot be the Father, God cannot be the Holy Spirit, correct? Because you cannot understand how this can be. But as I stated, because you cannot understand God and his ways, you reject them. But fortunately because one person rejects truth, in no part takes away truth.
 
Bahman said:
Could we agree that God cannot perform any act which is logically impossible?
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Let me give you a GREAT example, How can a Priest by the power of the Holy Spirit take regular bread, and regular wine, and turn it into the true Body and Blood of Christ?

I have no answer to you that is logical. But I believe and know it is indeed the true blood and body of Christ.

Now you need to give me concrete proof I am wrong.
 
By the way God said I knew you BEFORE you were even born. So that means our soul indeed was in existence long before we were born to this world.

The soul is created in the human body at the moment of conception. Now that soul that you claim God cannot find, was put into the human body at the time God choose to do so.

So that kind of puts you into a bad position, that God cannot locate a soul, when he knew that soul long before he united it into a human body.
 
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