Revelations...are we ready...

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Nice try, in a religious sense is what Jesus and Matthew meant. Gotta read that Bible uno to get the meaning…
 
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tommy1234:
Nice try, in a religious sense is what Jesus and Matthew meant. Gotta read that Bible uno to get the meaning…
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Exactly. Read the tract. 👍
 
I read it. Jesus had two commandments one was to love each other. The other was to give 100% devotion to his Father. Having saints, popes and fathers receiving praise hurts God and that what Jesus is telling us in Matthew 23:9 in my opinion.

Doctines, councils and apologetic departments add to scripture and we only need what is in the Book. That is why in my opinion everybody should spend their own time reading the Bible in addition what is read from a man. tommy
 
Also Tommy, don’t blame the Catholic Church, your parents ought to have been your first teachers in the faith. I could flip through the Bible younger than your 8 year old could, I think I was four when I started to read it myself.
 
Alright, you asked for one question at a time. Take a shot at this one. In Revelations who is the beast, the wild beast, babylon the great and what does all of the ten horns represent? One question…
 
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tommy1234:
I read it. Jesus had two commandments one was to love each other. The other was to give 100% devotion to his Father. Having saints, popes and fathers receiving praise hurts God and that what Jesus is telling us in Matthew 23:9 in my opinion.

Doctines, councils and apologetic departments add to scripture and we only need what is in the Book. That is why in my opinion everybody should spend their own time reading the Bible in addition what is read from a man. tommy
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Tommy,
You want us to respond to you so I hope you will respond to me. This will be the third time I have asked you this.

You say above that “we only need what is in the Book.”

Okay, where did the Book come from?

What did the Early Church (or Christains if you wish) do the first couple of centuries when there was no Book?
 
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tommy1234:
… but seriously think about what the beast, the wild beast and babylon the great is telling us in the last chapter of the Bible.

no thank you tommy, you think about what the beast is telling you, I prefer to think about what God is telling us:rotfl:

Got to go be with family and thanks for readying my heck of long stuff. Peace to you all! tommy
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----have a good night, and don’t forget to check out that site they gave you, you can talk to them on there.
www.catholicxjw.com
 
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tommy1234:
Judy your great! But let me try this one, the priest opens the Bible and reads Matt:9 “Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the Heavenly one”. Hmmm, I don’t remember hearing that one read from the Altar?
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Thanks for the compliment!
31st Sunday in Ordinary Time (I believe that is October 30 this year): Matthew 23:1-12 (I assume that is what you meant, not Matt:9).
If you only have the Bible read to you, it is not possible to remember the Chapter and verse number and refer to it later.
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No need to write it down to remember it later-- it is usually in the weekly bulletin, it can be found in the on-line lectionary (as you saw in my link), and of course Catholics are more than welcome to buy a copy of the Missal, as well.
Plus, we do not as humans absorb material that is being read to us versus reading it ourselves
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Now, I am sure you don’t want to make such a broad generalization like that, do you?🙂
There are probably as many variations in learning styles as there are people. Many people do much better hearing instruction than they do reading it, and vice versa.
Plus, by researching the material your mind works on what you are taking in both awake and asleep. Plus it becomes addicting reading it. Plus, there is something strange that happens when you read it yourself when you “happen” to stumble across the thing you are trying to figure out in some strange way. Or, you are plying the CDs of the Bible in your car and your struggle of the day is answered for you some how. Happened to me ALOT! Lots of reasons to read it yourself.
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You seem to be falling into the either/or trap of many Protestants. Either read OR listen. We are fully capable of doing both. We HEAR the Word during Mass, and are encouraged to READ and study the Word in our daily lives.
Two other things mentioned on the Finance Committee was supposed to be about money. We drained our poor members to try and build a school. Collected 3 million dollars from them. The school never happen five years later, no plans on finishing it and the Parish kept the cash. Money went farther then the committee. We discussed strategies to pick up more members, not to feed to community spiritually, but to gain revenue. I did see it from the inside guys.
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It seems to me that the one of the purposes of a finance committee would be to figure out ways to raise money and increase membership. The money donated to the church is understood to be used as the church sees fit to use it best. If the plans fell through, there were probably other needs that were met with the donations. When I donate to the Church, I am not giving for any specific financial area, and I am fully aware that my donation will be put where it is needed. There are other ministries within a parish that have more community-specific purposes
Last worship was brought up, We worship in group prayer and song.
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While song and prayer are certainly aspects of worship, worship also requires sacrifice. When we participate in the Mass, we participate in the very sacrifice that Christ made at Calvary.
I still can’t say only one religion is right, but the spiritual blessings in our household are much more intenst then they were three years ago.
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How wonderful for you and your family! I pray that your devotion and desire for the Truth will lead you to find the Church that Christ Himself founded.
Every person has their own beliefs in what works for them and as this post was an essay about Revelations I do believe we will have a chance in the afterlife to drop our following of men and will be given the opportunity to show that we can give a 100% devotion to God in the afterlife regardless of what sect we follow and therefore I am not saying Catholics are all wrong (the members) but seriously think about what the beast, the wild beast and babylon the great is telling us in the last chapter of the Bible.
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This lifetime is our opportunity to choose to follow Christ and give our devotion to Him, God and the Holy Spirit. We won’t have a chance once we are standing before God in our personal judgement. As for the Catholic Church being the Whore of Babylon, that old nag of a horse has been beaten beyond death! 🙂 I would only point you to the Catholic.com article on it for further enlightenment.
Got to go be with family and thanks for readying my heck of long stuff. Peace to you all! tommy
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Enjoy your time with the family! It’s been great talking to you. Peace be with you, also!
 
OK lets do this. Let try and answer as a group what the beasts, wild beasts, babylon the great and the ten horms represent and give the JW stuff a hold for a day or two, I will respond when I get back with my views. My wife is home with groceries, the puters going off and I will be at the Cow Palice tommorow on the JW annual convention (sorry if this bugs anyone). But give me your thoughts tonight and tomorrow on what these pieces mean and Daniels dream I I will sincerely let you you what I think. tommy
 
OK, I am only one person on this side and this is my thread, Let’s try and answer as a group if we can what the beasts, wild beasts, babylon the great and the ten horns are? One question as you requested…
 
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tommy1234:
OK, I am only one person on this side and this is my thread, Let’s try and answer as a group if we can what the beasts, wild beasts, babylon the great and the ten horns are? One question as you requested…
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Pagan Rome and it’s various vassal states.👍
 
What is the Catholic view in Rev. of:

a) The beast

b) the wild beast

c) babylon the great

d) What do all ten horns represent?

What is the significant about these relating to our future and prophecies? tommy
 
Tommy, sorry to go back to what we were discussing before, but:

About Thomas’ “my Lord and my God” statement in John 20:28, you said:

Sort of like if we were saying “oh my God” referring to the God in heaven when he discovered that Jesus came back. When we are shocked by something we say "Oh my God"

That won’t hold up. What you are trying to do is take a 20th C. English idiom (and somewhat blasphemous at that) and apply it to a first C. Aramaic speaking Jew (Thomas). Nowhere in Scripture does the idiomatic phrase “Oh my God!” occur. Go to a public library and read what any commentary has to say on that verse. Thomas was calling Jesus “my God” in the same sense that you and I would call our mother “my mother”. But as I said in my earlier post,
“…sadly, some would take those words out of Thomas’ mouth, and say that he didn’t mean what he was saying.”

About the symbols in the book of Revelations, you may find that most Catholics are , wisely, reluctant to dogmatically assign meanings to them.

You apparantly have the JW commentary on the book of Revelation, because some of your posts have contained quotes from it. Take a look at the chart on page 173 where they state that the 7 trumpet blasts of Rev 8:6 -11:15 were 7 conventions of the International Bible Students from 1922 to 1928. Does that make sense to you? If you become a JW, you will be required to agree completely with that, and much more, and teach it to others also.

How long has that particular commentary on Revelation been out? What were the names of the commentaries before that? (Then is Finished the Mystery of God and Babylon the Great has Fallen) And before then? How many commentaries on Revelation, total, have they published? Why did they stop publishing them and come out with new ones? How long will it be before they come out with a new commentary on Revelation? When they come out with a new commentary, what will you do with the “truths” that you are learning from the current commentary? Also, ask your JW contacts about the change in the term “this generation” that occured in the mid 1990’s.

The leadership of the WT controls the thinking of their followers by controlling which books go in and out of print, and when. But, “To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is weariness” (Ecclesiastes 12:12). Take a look here: quotes.watchtower.ca/

Best wishes.
 
catsrus said:
Genesis315 answered you.
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Revelations refers to the end of the Bible, not pegan rome. It also includes prophecy, so how does pegan Rome tie to future prophecy and what about the beast, wild beast and 10 horns. Take care and have a good day. peace and love tommy
 
At His Feet:
Tommy, sorry to go back to what we were discussing before, but:

About Thomas’ “my Lord and my God” statement in John 20:28, you said:

Sort of like if we were saying “oh my God” referring to the God in heaven when he discovered that Jesus came back. When we are shocked by something we say "Oh my God"

That won’t hold up. What you are trying to do is take a 20th C. English idiom (and somewhat blasphemous at that) and apply it to a first C. Aramaic speaking Jew (Thomas). Nowhere in Scripture does the idiomatic phrase “Oh my God!” occur. Go to a public library and read what any commentary has to say on that verse. Thomas was calling Jesus “my God” in the same sense that you and I would call our mother “my mother”. But as I said in my earlier post,
“…sadly, some would take those words out of Thomas’ mouth, and say that he didn’t mean what he was saying.”

About the symbols in the book of Revelations, you may find that most Catholics are , wisely, reluctant to dogmatically assign meanings to them.

You apparantly have the JW commentary on the book of Revelation, because some of your posts have contained quotes from it. Take a look at the chart on page 173 where they state that the 7 trumpet blasts of Rev 8:6 -11:15 were 7 conventions of the International Bible Students from 1922 to 1928. Does that make sense to you? If you become a JW, you will be required to agree completely with that, and much more, and teach it to others also.

How long has that particular commentary on Revelation been out? What were the names of the commentaries before that? (Then is Finished the Mystery of God and Babylon the Great has Fallen) And before then? How many commentaries on Revelation, total, have they published? Why did they stop publishing them and come out with new ones? How long will it be before they come out with a new commentary on Revelation? When they come out with a new commentary, what will you do with the “truths” that you are learning from the current commentary? Also, ask your JW contacts about the change in the term “this generation” that occured in the mid 1990’s.

The leadership of the WT controls the thinking of their followers by controlling which books go in and out of print, and when. But, “To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is weariness” (Ecclesiastes 12:12). Take a look here: quotes.watchtower.ca/

Best wishes.
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Would you agree that Jesus had said in John that his Father is superior to him? take care and God Bless, tommy
 
Tommy - You’ll have to quote me the scripture where He said that.

I already quoted you a clear scripture in the Bible that calls Jesus God. So does John 1:1. In John 1:1 a statement is made, that “the Logos was God”, and at the conclusion of John in ch 20:28. (most commentators consider ch 21 to be an epilog) John follows through and drives the point home with Thomas’ statement, directed clearly and plainly AT Jesus “…my Lord and my God.” What could be plainer? Also I’ve given you a list of scriptures in Revelation to compare where you will see that Jesus is being called the Alpha and Omega.

Jehovah’s Witnesses really have no good response for John 20:28. But it won’t go away. There it is, staring straight at you. If you and I were fully awake, we would consider that statement to be one of the most life-changing, illuminating things we’ve ever seen. But it was a scandal back in the 1st C. and it’s a scandal now. Many say “But it doesn’t make sense”…to them. Same with the Eucharist, same with the Virgin Birth, etc. If we approach the Bible by trying to explain away things that “don’t make sense” to us, then we will not likely stop until we have thrown out the Judgement and everything else. I, as a Bible student, cannot go against what Thomas (and John) were clearly saying.

The doctrine of the Trinity is the explanation that Christ’s Church gave to the following clear assertions that are made in Scripture
  • the Personhood of the Father
  • the Deity of the Father
  • the Personhood of the Son
  • the Deity of the Son (I’ve shown you scripture for this)
  • the Personhood of the Holy Spirit (Acts 13:2)
  • the Deity of the Holy Spirit
  • a Threeness in the Godhead. (“Baptize in THE name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” - one name, three entities)
The question you have raised, about the “Superiority” of the Father, has to do with the relation of those three entities within the Godhead, and during Christ’s time on earth. but it is NOT denying that Jesus is God. Others here can expain it further better than me (I’m inviting them to right now), and I won’t be on a computer for the rest of the weekend.

(Not to go off topic, but back up 3 verses in John to 20:25 and you will see that more than one nail was used in Jesus’ hands, contrary to WT pictures. See, having a picture doesn’t make it so.)

There is much more to say Tommy. You have probably already heard them say that they are the “one true organization” and that “God has ALWAYS worked through an organization”. Well, where was that organization in the year 1800? 1500? 1000?

You’ve hinted about their commentary on Daniel. Have they ever put out a commentary on Romans? Ephesians? Hebrews? Peter’s letters? Why not? Why always the emphasis on end-time prophecies?

Get your hands on a Catechism of the Catholic Church. Get the big green one for $20 because it has a scripture reference in the back. There you will find a sane explanation of the Christian faith. I wonder - is the WT willing to put out a “sure guide for faith” like the Catechism, something they will be willing to stick by for decades and decades and hundreds of years? If not, why not?

I asked you what you thought about the chart on page 173 of the Revelation Grand Climax book, but you havn’t answered me. There is much more to say about the Grand Climax book, for example their assertion that the Letters to the Seven Congregations from Jesus in the opening chapters were not really addressed to 1st C. congregations in Asia Minor at all (as they clearly say that they are) but to entities that existed after 1914!

And look at that “Quotes” site, please. God bless.
 
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