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mick321
Guest
Zero. Communion rails were smashed out of hatred for what they represented: Genuine Catholic Faith.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
Wow, how far we’ve drifted from the traditional virtue of obedience, and abhorrence of singularity (a form of pride.) Would you be even more impressed if a communicant came to the priest or emhc and prostrated himself on the floor and sprinkled himself with ashes and then rising to kneel was finally ready to receive Communion?I personally have been genuflecting before recieving Holy Communion, but still stand; this is because I was afraid of reprecussions from the (illicit) Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion. But now I think it’s about time I returned to the practice of kneeling on the floor before our Eucharistic God. I shouldn’t fear reprecussions; the Vatican is behind me.
EMHCs are NOT illicit. They are commissioned by the Bishop and serve at the request of the Pastor of your church.
FYI, the Vatican is not behind ANYONE who disrupts the Sacred Mysteries, or disregards (out of a disordered love of singularity) the practice that is in place in your parish.
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centurionguard
Guest
I find if odd that so many Archdioceses (“in themselves”) whether it be in the United States or Canada would differentiate between posture practice norms from kneeling to standing during the entire Eucharistic Prayer and the manner in which the Eucharist is received by communicants which is awfully conflicting and confusing. There’s no uniformity from one parish to another. In my Archdiocese between the English and French Deanery most parishioners in French parishes kneel throughout the entire Eucharistic Prayer. Most English parishes stand during the entire Eucharistic Prayer. Seems even the Archbishop can’t maintain any uniformity because every priest has his own idea how he wants the parishioners to behave when it comes to posture norms which get reformed in the G.I.R.M. every few years. In my Archdiocese I usually attend the mother English parish which happens to be the only English parish that kneels during the Eucharistic Prayer after the Holy, Holy.
adoremus.org/0409CDW_Kneeling.html April, 2009
Cardinal Cañizares: As is known, the current universal discipline of the Church requires that as a norm Communion is distributed into the mouth of the faithful. Then there is an indult that allows, at the request of episcopates, to distribute Communion on the palm of the hand also. This is worth remembering. The pope, then, to give greater prominence to the due reverence with which we must approach the Body of Christ, wished that the faithful who receive Communion from his hands do so on their knees. This seemed to me a beautiful and edifying initiative of the Bishop of Rome. The present norms do not require anyone to do the same. But neither do they prevent it.
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CradleCath
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I was 28 in 1969 when the council was winding down & I remember reading the Catholic periodicals & secular newspapers during the years when Cardinal Bernardin & friends were so busy petitioning the Pope for the indult.
There was a great deal of talk about the fact that our hierarchy considered kneeling to receive on the tongue was degrading to mankind. Their “reasoning” was that since we are made in the image of God, the “degrading” position of kneeling & receiving on the tongue should be replaced.
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Layman
Guest
Reminds me of that wonderful old hymn, O Holy Night, which has the memorable words:
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[heh heh heh]
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- Stand, on your feet! O, hear the angel voices!
O night divine, the night when Christ was Born;
O night, O holy night, O night divine!*
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[heh heh heh]
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Mattapoisett64
Guest
Some of us might think the Crucifix, and not a railing, would be a better representation of the Genuine Catholic Faith.
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pro_multis
Guest
Well those were moved out too.
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pro_multis
Guest
You do not need a formal communion rail. There is a novus ordo worship site in a nearby diocese that has TLM once a month. I am not sure if it was renovated in the spirit of vatican ii or simply built after VII. They bring in two kneelers at the front of the sanctuary and people receive communion two at a time at these kneelers.
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centurionguard
Guest
**You obvious believe two Prie Dieu Kneelers could handle the large influx of parishioners waiting to receive communion? My parish can hold 850 people to the bulkheads. In todays Novus Ordo Mass at communion time its a rushed crowd of parishioners coming up the aisle in orderly expediency. Like as if its some necessity to rush those coming to receive the Holy Eucharist like a pack of ravenous wolves. I remember the communion rail and apron when I was a kid. I though it was very symbolic. For there beyond the communion rail was God’s Sanctuary (“Holy Ground”) in the Eucharistic presence of God Almighty…Christ triune hidden from all wondering eyes.
The average Catholic Church lost one hell of a lot grandeur in architectural craftmanship when Altar Rails were removed, High Altars, beautiful ten, twelve foot statues ripped and smashed from their mountings, taken away to the garbage dump. All in the name of Modernity.**
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ProVobis
Guest
Now that you mention it, I do see some more modern-looking churches that have split communion rails. These probably are just for communion as many churches removed the complete railing so there would be no barrier between the sanctuary and the rest of the Church. They needed to remove the Holies part from the Holy of Holies for some wacky reason.
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Canto
Guest
GIRM 295. The sanctuary is the place where the altar stands, where the word of God is proclaimed, and where the priest, the deacon, and the other ministers exercise their offices. It **should suitably be marked off from the body of the church **either by its being somewhat **elevated or by a particular structure **and ornamentation. It should, however, be large enough to allow the Eucharist to be celebrated properly and easily seen.
And what could a particular structure be - an altar rail
And what could a particular structure be - an altar rail
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Like
Guest
:blush:I’m a year older.
In South Texas in 1965, as a member of the local K of C, we were informed by our pastor that the altar was going to be cut out and brought forward for the new Mass. And if he so much as heard one word questioning this, the council would be moved off Church grounds. Well, needless to say it didn’t take long for the council to find a new meeting space & this Church took quite a loss in support from that council.
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centurionguard
Guest
It is my belief from Catholic books that I have read decades past that many hundreds of thousands of priests, and even some bishops and cardinals were angered and dismayed by the many drastic changes from the TLM to the new Novus Ordo Mass.
Proof of this is from the droves of Jesuit priests that left and resigned their priesthood after 1965. The change in the Mass left an awful deep wound in the Church. Needless to say that profound wound is still quite evident today and it will be for a very long time to come.
Pope John Paul II knew of this and so does Pope Benedict XVI.
The changes were radical at best. What was it that Pope Paul VI said near his death,
(“The Smoke of Satan has Entered the Church”).
Proof of this is from the droves of Jesuit priests that left and resigned their priesthood after 1965. The change in the Mass left an awful deep wound in the Church. Needless to say that profound wound is still quite evident today and it will be for a very long time to come.
Pope John Paul II knew of this and so does Pope Benedict XVI.
The changes were radical at best. What was it that Pope Paul VI said near his death,
(“The Smoke of Satan has Entered the Church”).
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Layman
Guest
Tut, tut, how can you deny the great improvements to our worship that have occurred since the 1940’s, resulting in many more vocations and the sanctification of millions through fervent devotions.
Especially helpful were:
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errr …
[note: sarcasm]
Especially helpful were:
- De-facto banning of the TLM (it needed replacing);
- Replacing it with a more populist Mass* (the easier you make it for people, the more fervent they become);*
- Dropping all the old indulgences (they needed streamlining. Remission of time in Purgatory through acts here on Earth? For the Holy Souls as well? A quaint idea.);
- Supression of Prime in the Divine Office *(Far too fervent and forthright); *
- Bishops conferences ignoring the Pope (democracy in action);
- CITH, Altar girls, rail-removal, EMHCs (removed barriers between the sacred and the mundane)
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errr …
[note: sarcasm]
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Mattapoisett64
Guest
Is “novus ordo worship site” a term meant to indicate “a Catholic church where the Ordinary Form of the Liturgy is celebrated?” And if you do not recognize either the Ordinary Form as a valid Catholic liturguy, or the church in which it is celebrated as a true Catholic church, does that put you in schism?
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CradleCath
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CradleCath
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Or maybe BOTH!! Like it was before the council??
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CradleCath
Guest
Good for you!! My parents still lived across the street from the Cathedral parish where I had attended elementary school. I remember watching the statue of Our Lady going down the street on a flatbed truck.:blush:I’m a year older.
In South Texas in 1965, as a member of the local K of C, we were informed by our pastor that the altar was going to be cut out and brought forward for the new Mass. And if he so much as heard one word questioning this, the council would be moved off Church grounds. Well, needless to say it didn’t take long for the council to find a new meeting space & this Church took quite a loss in support from that council.
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Seamus_L
Guest
Mandating it would be a positive step towards restoration and increased reverence for the eucharist. We should always show humility when receiving Jesus in the eucharist. In many churches, along with the communion rails, they’ve removed the kneelers and the confessionals. A person who refuses to kneel is a person who has no humility.
In regards to Eastern Catholics receiving communion standing, it should be added that they perform a bending at the knees in reverence to Our Lord as they receive.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
In regards to Latin Catholics receiving communion standing, it should be added that they perform a bow in reverence to the Sacred Presence as they receive.
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