Richard Dawkins to Atheist Rally: 'Show Contempt' for Faith, the Eucharist

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unafraid said:
The only thing I have taken away from all of your postings is the sound of a self-congratulatory snicker regarding your misperceived cleverness at having been able to surreptitiously slip in the epithet, “child rapist”, as many times, in as many contexts, as is humanly possible, while you watch everyone dance around all of your other ancillary hogwash.

Why not just type “child rapist, child rapist, child rapist”, ad infinitum…But, please spare us the moral outrage-empathetic victim advocate routine. It is an old ruse by now, which serves as cover for you to stick the knife in that same old wound, over and over again. Just another disingenuous, meanspirited atheist attack strategem that has, frankly, worn out its welcome.
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I take no joy in any of this. But I do think that we should call it what it is.
 
anEvilAtheist said:
What do you mean spin it? I said that the term was derogatory and I know it was coined as a slur against Catholics. I also said that when I hear the term in political contexts, it’s usually used by people who claim the Catholic politician will blindly follow the pope rather than use his or her own judgement. But maybe I’m the only one who thinks the term now has that implication.

By the way, do you have a source that establishes Martin Luther as the originator of the term? I didn’t know that he was the one who coined it. I’m just curious because I always like learning new things and I couldn’t find any sources establishing its origin with Luther in my cursory Google search.
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No real definitive source, outside of the fact that you don’t see the term in use until Luther breaks from the Catholic Church and uses it in his later anti-Catholic diatribes. While I don’t think he used the term specifically (he was German, not English). The term catches on more broadly in Europe, and take a really strong hold in England during the schism of Henry VIII. It survives the colonization of the new world and is one of the favorite terms of some of hte founding fathers, such as John Adams. So, while he may not have coined the actual term, it was his ideology that was the cause of its creation with English speaking people.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
No real definitive source, outside of the fact that you don’t see the term in use until Luther breaks from the church and uses it in his later anti-Catholic diatribes. The term catches on more broadly in Europe, and take a really strong hold in England during the schism of Henry VIII. It survives the colonization of the new world and is one of the favorite terms of some of hte founding fathers, such as John Adams.
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Thanks!
 
anEvilAtheist said:
Child rape is evil whether perpetrated against young children (pedophilia) or adolescents (ephebophilia), against people of the same sex or against people of the opposite sex.
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True. However, it is important to know the facts. A culture of homosexuality invaded the seminaries and then the priesthood and the results are evil.
 
unafraid said:
Not only am I suspicious of academia in the general sense, but I am more so of intellectuals, in particular. I do not apologize for this perspective, but rather feel better served for possessing it, since it allies me with some very sagacious characters, for example:

G.K. Chesterton once remarked, “A large section of the intelligentsia seems wholly devoid of intelligence” ; Edward Dahlberg once quipped, “Intellectual sodomy, which comes from the refusal to be simple about plain matters, is as gross and abundant today as sexual perversions and they are in no wise different from one another”

I simply believe that the true seeker of wisdom is one who is humbled by the task. I’ll leave you with a quote from Socrates, the epitome of a wise man, who once proclaimed, “I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance”. Not something we’ll ever likely hear spoken by Richard Dawkins, the consumate intellectual.
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Add to that list Noam Chomsky, hailed by the NY Times as the world’s “most important intellectual.” Now, granted, he’s an atheist and an anarchist, but he’s had some surprisingly nice things to say about the Catholic Church (a rarity in the atheist intelligentsia for sure; he has participated with Church organizations in humanitarian efforts.)

Anyway, getting back on topic: this man who is proclaimed as the world’s most important living intellectual consistently shows disdain for the title and advises his audiences to be skeptical of intellectualism in general.
 
qui_est_ce said:
Ever read Goodbye Good Men? It’s an eye-opener.
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You’re not doubting that Buffalo’s remark was a generalization, are you? From the description on Amazon:

Goodbye, Good Men provides the real story behind the sex scandal currently rocking the Catholic church. Investigative reporter Michael Rose has conducted countless interviews and exhaustive research to uncover several out-of-control seminaries as the root cause of the scandal. Several doesn’t mean “most” or “all.”
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
You’re not doubting that Buffalo’s remark was a generalization, are you? From the description on Amazon:

Goodbye, Good Men provides the real story behind the sex scandal currently rocking the Catholic church. Investigative reporter Michael Rose has conducted countless interviews and exhaustive research to uncover several out-of-control seminaries as the root cause of the scandal. Several doesn’t mean “most” or “all.”
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It is pervasive Rich. Check out some of the clergy surveys.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
I did hear something about a pervasive, but little known “Lavender Mafia” that had taken hold in the seminaries. Not sure how true because it is nearly impossible to investigate.
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“Not sure how true” is the right attitude to take. I’d say “taken hold in SOME seminaries.” Those kinds of generalizations are on the same order as the generalizations that say that most Catholic clergy are paederasts.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
You are still generalizing. Can you name names?
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There was a thread a few years back about it. There were several ex-seminarians and priests on it who had experienced it.

I don’t want to name names, but I know a person in St. Louis that left the seminary because of it.

I’m really amazed at how many good 50-something priests we have here in St. Louis who would have had to endure this. I wouldn’t dare to ask them about the problem and I doubt they would discuss it with me.
 
qui_est_ce said:
There was a thread a few years back about it. There were several ex-seminarians and priests on it who had experienced it.
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No doubt - “several.”
I don’t want to name names, but I know a person in St. Louis that left the seminary because of it.
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Not doubting you that some would leave their seminary because of it.
I’m really amazed at how many good 50-something priests we have her in St. Louis had to endure this. I wouldn’t dare to ask them about the problem and I doubt they would discuss it with me.
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Which means that we don’t learn about it except through innuendo. 😦
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
“Not sure how true” is the right attitude to take. I’d say “taken hold in SOME seminaries.” Those kinds of generalizations are on the same order as the generalizations that say that most Catholic clergy are paederasts.
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The renegade Polish priest at St. Stanilaus in St. Louis is gay. He went to seminary in Poland before he came to St. Louis.

Why do you think the Pope had to come out on the subject of gay priests?
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
No doubt - “several.”

Not doubting you that some would leave their seminary because of it.

Which means that we don’t learn about it except through innuendo. 😦
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billcork.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/vatican-says-gay-seminary-problem-overcome-mostly/
A few years ago the book, Goodbye, Good Men, stunned the Catholic world by letting everyone in on a secret that priests and seminarians already knew: many Catholic seminaries were “pink palaces,” recruiting grounds for a homosexual network. Faculty were involved with each other and with their students; students preyed upon weaker students. You survived seminary, and entered the priesthood, by joining or by staying silent. Those who protested were often forced out for being “rigid.”
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In the wake of the sexual abuse scandal (and more stories of cover up), the Vatican vowed an investigation of seminaries. NCR reports on the outcome; the Vatican says the problem has been overcome at diocesan run seminaries. Seminaries run by religious orders still have some problems.
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qui_est_ce said:
The renegade Polish priest at St. Stanilaus in St. Louis is gay. He went to seminary in Poland before he came to St. Louis.

Why do you think the Pope had to come out on the subject of gay priests?
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No doubting that it was and is a problem, but I’d not think it pervasive. If it were, where ever would we be able to go to church? I cling to the hope that there are a “few good men” among our clergy.

As to that renegade priest, I hope he simply was able to fool the seminary into considering him straight rather than that he joined a sodomy den of iniquity…

There’s enough anti-Catholicism out there already.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
No doubting that it was and is a problem, but I’d not think it pervasive. If it were, where ever would we be able to go to church? I cling to the hope that there are a “few good men” among our clergy.

As to that renegade priest, I hope he simply was able to fool the seminary into considering him straight rather than that he joined a sodomy den of iniquity…

There’s enough anti-Catholicism out there already.
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Fair enough. 🙂

Mr. Bozek has turned the Polish heritage parish into a nonCatholic parish. They give the Sacraments to gay, lesbian, openly cohabitating couples, divorced and remarried. It’s so radically changed that even the original dissenters want to come back to the Archdiocese.

It’s a very sad situation, because many of our Polish population (including our pastor and his family) has their heart there.
 
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