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estesbob
Guest
Yet we we post Church teaching you dismiss them. What issue or combination of issues trumps abortion
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ringil
Guest
You are repeating yourself. Read my last posts as you seem to have missed them.
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TEPO
Guest
Does Perry have the means to actually make abortion illegal on a national level…?
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estesbob
Guest
I, am are others, are still waiting for you to post any souces to back up your opinions.
I, am are others, are still waiting for you to tell us what issue or combination of issues trump abortion
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estesbob
Guest
He most certainly has the means to quit funding it internationally
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ringil
Guest
I answered your question regarding proportionality and my personal conscience.
Your sources do not state that it is a sin to vote for a pro-choice candidate if the voter is Pro-Life and they have proportionate reasons for doing so.
Is it a sin to vote for Obama? No, it’s not. Can Catholics vote for Obama and other Democrats in good conscience? Yes.
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ringil
Guest
Potential voters should seek the advice and council of their priests if they feel confused on the matter of using their conscience as a guide.
Apparently, posters here feel that they are in a better position to provide council to those looking for it.
Perhaps, they don’t trust that the ordained are “properly” disposed as they are in transmitting the Truth.
Apparently, posters here feel that they are in a better position to provide council to those looking for it.
Perhaps, they don’t trust that the ordained are “properly” disposed as they are in transmitting the Truth.
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bbarrick8383
Guest
Just so I’m understanding this, you believe a Catholic can vote for a pro choice candidate as long as the candidate isn’t personally pro choice?
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ringil
Guest
The personal stance of the candidate would be immaterial. It is the public policy stance that is in error. For instance Obama is in error- grievous error- regarding his stance on abortion.
A Catholic can vote for a Pro-Choice candidate like Obama despite the fact that the voter disagrees with the stance of the candidate and be in good conscience. The voter would believe that proportionately, and despite this, their cadidate would be the better choice.
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
Maybe Perry, if elected, will follow in George W. Bush’s footsteps.
politicalresponsibility.com/consequences.htm
politicalresponsibility.com/consequences.htm
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ishii
Guest
Okay then. Let the record show that you have refused to answer my simple and direct question, “which issue trumps abortion?”. Your inability to answer the question speaks volumes about the moral bankruptcy of the Democrat catholic Obama voter. I hope there are lurkers viewing this thread as I think its quite educational.You are repeating yourself, as am I, I suppose.
I did add to my last post so that you may fire back with your invincible and pre-fabricated logic.
Perhaps reposting from Chaput or Burke is in order. . . . .
Ishii
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estesbob
Guest
Simply not true. If you have evidence to back up this assertion please post it.
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ringil
Guest
Read posters’ histories.
Talk to your priests. Why would posters not want you to trust your priests? They state that priests don’t know the teaching of the Church and could lead you astray.
Pray and read Church documents.
There is no sin in voting for a Pro-Choice Candidate given that you desagree with this stance, but through prayer and council believe there is proportionate reason to do so.
As the Bishops say “Catholics are not one-issue voters”.
That’s all I have to say on this thread.
Talk to your priests. Why would posters not want you to trust your priests? They state that priests don’t know the teaching of the Church and could lead you astray.
Pray and read Church documents.
There is no sin in voting for a Pro-Choice Candidate given that you desagree with this stance, but through prayer and council believe there is proportionate reason to do so.
As the Bishops say “Catholics are not one-issue voters”.
That’s all I have to say on this thread.
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Cider
Guest
Really, why do you keep posting the same thing over and over and over in this thread?
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estesbob
Guest
Actually what the Bishops said was :
- As Catholics we are not single-issue voters. A candidate’s position on a single
issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter’s support. **Yet a candidate’s position on a ****single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the ****promotion of racism, may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from **receiving support.
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estesbob
Guest
*Prof. Kmiec argues that there are defensible motives to support Senator Obama. Speaking for myself, I do not know any proportionate reason that could outweigh more than 40 million unborn children killed by abortion and the many millions of women deeply wounded by the loss and regret abortion creates.To suggest - as some Catholics do - that Senator Obama is this year’s ‘‘real’’ prolife candidate requires a peculiar kind of self-hypnosis, or moral confusion, or worse. To portray the 2008 Democratic Party presidential ticket as the preferred ‘‘prolife’’ option is to subvert what the word ‘‘prolife’’ means. Anyone interested in Senator Obama’s record on abortion and related issues should simply read Prof. Robert P. George’s Public Discourse essay from earlier this week, ‘‘Obama’s Abortion Extremism,’’ and his follow-up article, ‘‘Obama and Infanticide.’’ They say everything that needs to be said. *
Achbushop Charles Chaput
A Catholic can support a democrat (or a repulican) if they do not support abortion. Obama does.
*
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ishii
Guest
So you believe there are proportionate reasons to vote for a pro-abortion Democrat. On what issues specifically do you think rise to that level of proportionality comparted to abortion, and why? If you are so sure that you are right then you ought to have an answer to the question.
Ishii
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bbarrick8383
Guest
I can’t argue from a Catholic’s perspective, so I won’t even try.
But it sounds to me like you’ve developed an opinion that allows free interpretation of your Church’s teaching on abortion. As long as you keep that opinion you can convince other Catholics that if they feel that a candidates social positions align more with their own then they can vote accordingly without any regard to abortion.
Personally, I’d hang up all my political beliefs and vote for Obama if it meant the end of abortion. I can not use the word proportional to personally justify the continuation of murder.
Name whatever positions you want, do they really compare to abortion? Think about the fact that most of them are probably third rail programs that Republicans wouldn’t touch anyway, what are they worth to you to consider them more important than protecting a child?
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ringil
Guest
ditto
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bbarrick8383
Guest
As far as pro-life, sure I’m all for it.
As far as spending, if he drops another 5 trillion on the government 信用卡 (Xìnyòngkǎ), the Republicans can stick their head between their legs and kiss their own tail goodbye for all I care.
For those of you who are wondering, Google translate tells me that is Chinese for credit card. Might as well start brushing up on it, just in case.
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