Rick Santorum Thread

[CMatt25]

Why does it have to be at the federal level? Can’t this be taken care of at the state level? What happened to “we’re a democracy of plural beliefs” ? Why does your way have to be applied to the whole country?

Ishii

No Ishii, everything can’t be taken care of at the state level. Otherwise we might as well be 50 separate countries. When states won’t protect the rights of the sick to have adequate affordable care, or the rights of minorities, think in terms of the Civil Rights Act, or the rights of women, the federal government has to jump in. Being guaranteed affordable adequate healthcare for instance shouldn’t depend on where one resides any more than it should depend on what state one resides in as to whether for instance a person’s race should determine where they can dine or what hotel they can stay in.

 

[socialcath101]

Rick Santorum sure does have an excellent pro-life record and family values…

But his views on welfare are disturbing to me… I value the social safety net… I cannot in good conscious vote for any major candidate… Obama is pro choice and all the Republicans are anti-poor…

 

[rlg94086]

No Ishii, everything can’t be taken care of at the state level. Otherwise we might as well be 50 separate countries. When states won’t protect the rights of the sick to have adequate affordable care, or the rights of minorities, think in terms of the Civil Rights Act, or the rights of women, the federal government has to jump in. Being guaranteed healthcare for instance shouldn’t depend on where one resides any more than it should depend on what state one resides in as to whether a person’s that race should determine where they can dine or what hotel they can stay in.

You’re mixing constitutionally covered civil rights and social welfare issues. The federal government does not have to jump in on healthcare. There is no constitutional guarantee of healthcare.

 

[ishii]

Rick Santorum sure does have an excellent pro-life record and family values…

But his views on welfare are disturbing to me… I value the social safety net… I cannot in good conscious vote for any major candidate… Obama is pro choice and all the Republicans are anti-poor…

I would say Santorum’s views are a lot more compassionate than the traditional Democrat view: remember that the welfare policies created by the Democrats created more people dependent on welfare! Encouraging people to be poor and dependent on the government is hardly compassionate. In fact, the Democrats give new meaning to the word “pro-poor” . Welfare reform was passed in the 90’s by a Republican congress and a Democrat president.

Ishii

 

[rlg94086]

Rick Santorum sure does have an excellent pro-life record and family values…

But his views on welfare are disturbing to me… I value the social safety net… I cannot in good conscious vote for any major candidate… Obama is pro choice and all the Republicans are anti-poor.…

That is an uncharitable and inaccurate statement.

 

[The_Rock]

Rick Santorum sure does have an excellent pro-life record and family values…

But his views on welfare are disturbing to me… I value the social safety net… I cannot in good conscious vote for any major candidate… Obama is pro choice and all the Republicans are anti-poor…

Santorum was a great advocate of the poor in Congress. If you want to know the truth about his record look at this link.

query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C06E1D9153FF93AA15753C1A9609C8B63
The bottom line is this: If serious antipoverty work is going to be done, it’s going to emerge from a coalition of liberals and religious conservatives. Without Santorum, that’s less likely to happen. If senators are going to be honestly appraised, it’s going to require commentators who can look beyond the theater of public controversy and at least pretend to care about actual legislation. Santorum has never gotten a fair shake from the media.

And so after Election Day, the underprivileged will probably have lost one of their least cuddly but most effective champions.

This is from the New York Times!
Hardly a pro-Republican newspaper.

 

[socialcath101]

Let’s see Newt called food stamps a bad idea, Herman Cain said it was all the poor’s fault for their condition, Perry called social security a ponzi scheme… Need I go on?

I am a staunch advocate of the social safety net…

 

[The_Rock]

Santorum surges in latest NATIONAL poll (Rasmussen)

He is up 17% in a couple of weeks!
realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

 

[CMatt25]

You’re mixing constitutionally covered civil rights and social welfare issues. The federal government does not have to jump in on healthcare. There is no constitutional guarantee of healthcare.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

There is if the people retain a right not enumerated.

Amendment 9
“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

 

[Sonic]

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

There is if the people retain a right not enumerated.

Amendment 9
“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

usconstitution.net/const.html#Preamble

promote the general Welfare

This, and the next part of the Preamble, are the culmination of everything that came before it — the whole point of having tranquility, justice, and defense was to promote the general welfare — to allow every state and every citizen of those states to benefit from what the government could provide. The framers looked forward to the expansion of land holdings, industry, and investment, and they knew that a strong national government would be the beginning of that.

source: usconstitution.net/consttop_pre.html

Welfare
welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. <ME wel faren, to fare well] Source: AHD

Welfare in today’s context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.

source: usconstitution.net/glossary.html#WELFARE

 

[rlg94086]

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

There is if the people retain a right not enumerated.

Amendment 9
“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

Yep…“general Welfare” is the most misunderstood, misinterpreted phrase in the Constitutional by liberals… Thanks for reminding us all.

 

[rlg94086]

Let’s see Newt called food stamps a bad idea, Herman Cain said it was all the poor’s fault for their condition, Perry called social security a ponzi scheme… Need I go on?

I am a staunch advocate of the social safety net…

National food stamps are a bad idea. Cain was wrong. Perry was semi-accurate - our Social Security program is very poorly thought out and needs to be overhauled/privatized.

I believe in social safety nets, too. But, I don’t believe in bloated, federal bureaucracy which is dehumanizing. The Church warns against such things. Please read the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church for a better understanding.

 

[socialcath101]

National food stamps are a bad idea. Cain was wrong. Perry was semi-accurate - our Social Security program is very poorly thought out and needs to be overhauled/privatized.

I believe in social safety nets, too. But, I don’t believe in bloated, federal bureaucracy which is dehumanizing. The Church warns against such things. Please read the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church for a better understanding.

Listen Federal is the only way to go… If the states had their way California and Vermont would have universal healthcare (which Vermont already has done ) and Texas and South Carolina would be anarchist dystopias for lack of services…

I just can’t support 50 separate welfare systems… I do agree we can lower the bureaucracy by contracting services out. For example I work for a Catholic social services agency. We’ve got contracts with the state of Ohio and the Fed to handle social services. Can you support something like that on the Federal level where there’s a decentralized system of contracts?

 

[Elle_C]

Rick Santorum sure does have an excellent pro-life record and family values…

But his views on welfare are disturbing to me… I value the social safety net… I cannot in good conscious vote for any major candidate… Obama is pro choice and all the Republicans are anti-poor…

Well, since Obama came into office, my income has gone up (husband got a raise) but I am more broke than before. I struggle to pay bills, and come out with enough to sleep at night. Honestly, I think if we didn’t pay people welfare who are perfectly capable of doing a job, we’d be much better off. If Someone can walk around, and they are getting a check, they need to be doing SOMETHING to earn that check. Pick up trash in parks, clean up along the highways…SOMETHING!!

I also think the entire US government needs to be covered under the same healthcare net as everyone else. I assure you if that were the case, Healthcare would no longer be a luxury.

 

[socialcath101]

Well, since Obama came into office, my income has gone up (husband got a raise) but I am more broke than before. I struggle to pay bills, and come out with enough to sleep at night. Honestly, I think if we didn’t pay people welfare who are perfectly capable of doing a job, we’d be much better off. If Someone can walk around, and they are getting a check, they need to be doing SOMETHING to earn that check. Pick up trash in parks, clean up along the highways…SOMETHING!!

I also think the entire US government needs to be covered under the same healthcare net as everyone else. I assure you if that were the case, Healthcare would no longer be a luxury.

The social safety net is endorsed in the papal encyclical Rerum Novarum along with just wages, right to organize in a union, and other worker and state protections…

And Elle welfare recipients are required to work and attend job training. Workfare was instituted in the 90’s (ironically thanks to Santorum)… I liked Santorum in the 1990’s. He was much more of a team player and go between the Republicans, Democrats, and Clinton back then.

Santorum got Clinton to sign the reform bill… But I’ve lost all respect for Santorum with his current positions… He may be pro-life, pro family, and Catholic… But he certainly isn’t sticking to Catholic social teaching

 

[GraceDK]

I’m European but following American politics with some interest… especially the pro-life cause.

I read good things about Santorum until he was quoted in our news
for saying this:

“I’m really angry that the Obama-government wasn’t firm and that they didn’t place a missile shield/missile defence in Poland…”

I take this to mean that Santorum believes the American government can do as they please anywhere they please and will not respect other democracies in the Western world. Forcing millitary presence on Poland is not cool unless you wanna have the lable as some arrogant American cowboy.

 

[socialcath101]

I’m European but following American politics with some interest… especially the pro-life cause.

I read good things about Santorum until he was quoted in our news
for saying this:

“I’m really angry that the Obama-government wasn’t firm and that they didn’t place a missile shield/missile defence in Poland…”

I take this to mean that Santorum believes the American government can do as they please anywhere they please and will not respect other democracies in the Western world. Forcing millitary presence on Poland is not cool unless you wanna have the lable as some arrogant American cowboy.

Grace Poland wants our missile shield and they’re going to accept it because they’re NATO… NATO follows the defense doctrine of the United States

 

[GraceDK]

Grace Poland wants our missile shield and they’re going to accept it because they’re NATO… NATO follows the defense doctrine of the United States

They may or may not, but that is not the point. The point is that Santorum used a language that indicated that Poland should be forced.
Besides. I am not too happy about any of those big clubs that undermine the single national democracies… It seems that both UN and NATO can go over the line,… and well smaller countries are just trapped once they are inside…

 

[socialcath101]

They may or may not, but that is not the point. The point is that Santorum used a language that indicated that Poland should be forced.
Besides. I am not too happy about any of those big clubs that undermine the single national democracies… It seems that both UN and NATO can go over the line,… and well smaller countries are just trapped once they are inside…

The United States saved Europe from two world wars and founded both the UN (of which we’re on the security council) and NATO. Our post World War II peace initiatives were the basis for the European Union i.e. the Marshall Plan (so in effect you need to be triple thankful lol)

Considering if the Russians decide to steamroll Poland and the Baltic states it’ll be American boots that’ll repel the invasion (did you know we practically finance Poland’s military lol)…

 

[bbarrick8383]

The social safety net is endorsed in the papal encyclical Rerum Novarum along with just wages, right to organize in a union, and other worker and state protections…

And Elle welfare recipients are required to work and attend job training. Workfare was instituted in the 90’s (ironically thanks to Santorum)… I liked Santorum in the 1990’s. He was much more of a team player and go between the Republicans, Democrats, and Clinton back then.

Santorum got Clinton to sign the reform bill… But I’ve lost all respect for Santorum with his current positions… He may be pro-life, pro family, and Catholic… But he certainly isn’t sticking to Catholic social teaching

I am not governed by your papal encyclicals, nor am I governed by you. We have 50 different states for a very important reason. If someone uses the Federal government to intrude on my state laws and impose their own laws then you have created a path toward aggression. We will never get along as a country as long as their are people like you who feel it’s their duty to force people like me into the same ant hill you want to live in. I’ve got my own ant hill here in Oklahoma, stay out of it. If you live here/move here then fine we will fight that fight, which you will never win, but keep your tyrannical big bloated central government ideas to yourself.