Romney stands by message in secret video

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ringil said:
If you are see yourself, as the “worthy” poor- “blind, lame, widow, or orphan” then assistance is acceptable. These Conservatives tie issues of public monies to levels of morality of individuals. THey hold the “pick yourself up by your bootstraps, rugged individualism” type of thing. They would say “if you don’t work you don’t eat.”
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I disagree. I think the problem is **we **have **created **a welfare society where any and all behavior is acceptable. Look at the statistics of children born out of wedlock to poor black women since Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society. What was meant to be a good idea didn’t work and has morphed into an out of control bloated mess.

I get it that welfare is no fun. But I see some people lowering their standard of living so the “subsidy” becomes the sole source of income.

I see people complaining that food stamps don’t cover the cost of groceries. Food stamps are a subsidy, meant to help out.

These people do no service to the truly needy
 
qui_est_ce said:
I disagree. What I find scary is the people who don’t know the issues vote. Have you ever seen the exit polls of people being questioned by what a candidate said and guessed wrong?
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So true! Some will vote for Obama solely based on his ethnicity, likeability, or the capital (D) beside his name. Some will vote for Romney because he is Mormon, white, a good family man, or because of the capital (R) next to his name. Most voters likely don’t know the issues, budget proposals, environmental positions, etc., of the candidates.

I know the issues and support Mitt Romney. I would have preferred Condi Rice if she had run for the Republican nomination, or Jon Huntsman ( a Rockefeller Republican like me).
 
qui_est_ce said:
I disagree. I think the problem is **we **have **created **a welfare society where any and all behavior is acceptable. Look at the statistics of children born out of wedlock to poor black women since Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society. What was meant to be a good idea didn’t work and has morphed into an out of control bloated mess.
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I have seen what some call the “entitlement” mindset firsthand as a social worker and it can really get tiresome. I don’t see little snipets on youtube or some lady with food stamps in a line at the grocery store as some are talking about. I have seen ridiculous behavior in the context of my work after putting in days trying to help a client- so I get that abuse of the system happens- believe me.

The Great Society did make many positive changes in the social outcome of poor white and black Americans, but some of the fruits of Welfare have been very negative. But, this learned helplessness isn’t simply the fruit of “getting something for nothing” though. It is the growth of an interplay of psycho-sociol,political factors, including implicit and explicit oppression and discrimination.

Has modern welfare contributed to this learned helplessness- yes- but it can’t be seen in a vacuum and that is how I believe many rightists are seeing the plight of poor African Americans.

But how do we solve the problem which society has created?

In my view simply eliminating services and safety nets that some have come to depend on would be grossly unethical. To say “sink or swim” isn’t acceptable.

Innovative community treatment modalities are being done around the country and success is being made. That’s what I like to see.

Government monies need to be spent “smarter” not necessarily always “more”, but also not always necessarily “less”.
 
I haven’t read all of the responses yet in this thread, but I just wrote and mailed a check to the Romney campaign for $47. 😃
 
Saber_Mom said:
I haven’t read all of the responses yet in this thread, but I just wrote and mailed a check to the Romney campaign for $47. 😃
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:thumbsup:Yep,once again the left has shot themselves in the foot by focusing on this issue,as it is becoming clear most Americans’ agree with Romney;)
 
I agree with Rush on this. I am certain that this was the “October surprise”. It was released early because internals looking bad for the President.
 
qui_est_ce said:
I disagree. What I find scary is the people who don’t know the issues vote. Have you ever seen the exit polls of people being questioned by what a candidate said and guessed wrong?
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Okay…That does top the scary list.
 
ringil said:
I have seen what some call the “entitlement” mindset firsthand as a social worker and it can really get tiresome. I don’t see little snipets on youtube or some lady with food stamps in a line at the grocery store as some are talking about. I have seen ridiculous behavior in the context of my work after putting in days trying to help a client- so I get that abuse of the system happens- believe me.

The Great Society did make many positive changes in the social outcome of poor white and black Americans, but some of the fruits of Welfare have been very negative. But, this learned helplessness isn’t simply the fruit of “getting something for nothing” though. It is the growth of an interplay of psycho-sociol,political factors, including implicit and explicit oppression and discrimination.

Has modern welfare contributed to this learned helplessness- yes- but it can’t be seen in a vacuum and that is how I believe many rightists are seeing the plight of poor African Americans.

But how do we solve the problem which society has created?

In my view simply eliminating services and safety nets that some have come to depend on would be grossly unethical. To say “sink or swim” isn’t acceptable.

Innovative community treatment modalities are being done around the country and success is being made. That’s what I like to see.

Government monies need to be spent “smarter” not necessarily always “more”, but also not always necessarily “less”.
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Ringil you are in this area so maybe have perspective. If you look at the causes for poverty in this country, most are self induced: unwed motherhood, not completing high school, substance abuse. How do we provide incentive to avoid these roads to nowhere rather than pay those who are already a long way down the path? I think so much of this has become part of the culture. By the time you get to the third or fourth generation, it’s so ingrained that people don’t see any other path.

Volunteering in various social services organizations I saw this all of the time. It’s as if people caught in this mentality simply don’t imagine any other way to live. You can talk to them all you want about getting a GED, getting off drugs, not having another baby and their eyes glaze over. We have to get to them a lot earlier I guess.

But getting back to the thread, I truly believe that the focus on government solutions for individual problems just makes these problems worse. The ‘War on Poverty’ isn’t working.
Lisa
 
Jeanne_S said:
:thumbsup:Yep,once again the left has shot themselves in the foot by focusing on this issue,as it is becoming clear most Americans’ agree with Romney;)
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If all you read are conservative websites and newspapers and the only TV network you watch is Fox and you listen to talk radio…then yes, most people there do agree.

Romney was preaching to the choir and the choir is nodding their heads in agreement.
 
Seeker1961 said:
If all you read are conservative websites and newspapers and the only TV network you watch is Fox and you listen to talk radio…then yes, most people there do agree.

Romney was preaching to the choir and the choir is nodding their heads in agreement.
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Yep, it’s playing a little less favorably in the broader world…and I’m being kind.

John
 
oldcelt said:
A fascinating side-note…apparently it was Jimmy Carter’s grandson who broke this story.

firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/18/13938614-how-the-romney-video-leaked-for-carters-it-was-personal#comments

John
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Neil Cavuto made this announcement on his show and asked Mitt Romney what he thought about it. He said whomever released the video didn’t matter.

I guess Jimmy Carter’s grandson is eternally grateful to Obama for taking Carter’s place in presidential incompetency ranking 😃

Lisa
 
Seeker1961 said:
If all you read are conservative websites and newspapers and the only TV network you watch is Fox and you listen to talk radio…then yes, most people there do agree.

Romney was preaching to the choir and the choir is nodding their heads in agreement.
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I was too and millions like me out here in TV Land. Oh my Mitt Romney said people ought to take responsibility for themselves…what a concept!

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
I was too and millions like me out here in TV Land. Oh my Mitt Romney said people ought to take responsibility for themselves…what a concept!

Lisa
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No, he said, "My job is not to worry about those people …]’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”

He wrote off nearly 1/2 of the American people, including legitimate SS recipients who have paid into the system all their lives. He stepped in it in a major way.

John
 
ProVobis said:
It’s probably true, but FWIW, the Federal income tax only accounts for 42% of the Federal revenue. 40% come from payroll taxes (which who collects a paycheck pays, no floor), 9% from corporate taxes, 3% from excise tax, and 6% other.

taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/revenue.cfm
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Look I am thoroughly sick of hearing that people pay “payroll taxes” when this is for THEIR social security benefits. Unlike federal income taxes where you pay in all your life and get nothing back, the theory is that people are paying into social security and medicare to get a future benefit. The reality is that majority get a LOT MORE BACK than they ever put in.

This argument is a total canard.
Lisa
 
oldcelt said:
No, he said, "My job is not to worry about those people …]’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”

He wrote off nearly 1/2 of the American people, including legitimate SS recipients who have paid into the system all their lives. He stepped in it in a major way.

John
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John your convenient clip turned around the meaning of his statement. In saying he “didnt worry about them” it was with respect to getting their votes. IOW why try to appeal to people who will not vote for you anyway? Focus on those who are currently undecided and ask them to choose between a big government approach or an opportunity approach.

Of course the Left is trying to twist the meaning to make Romney look like Thurston Howell III but we aren’t all that stupid.

Lisa
 
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