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seekerz
Guest
I’m disappointed in you, Sam. Google is a source? Of what? Every wild idea that ever occurred to a human being with an internet connection?
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starsmurf
Guest
How?Its still much better than obama.
You want a president that thinks about 20% of his people were “sinners” in the “pre-mortal life” and therefore deserve all the suffering they get?
With the changes in teaching that happen in the Mormon faith, he could easily support gay marriage within four years.
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seekerz
Guest
Sure it is. That’s why I see (at least) no difference in the two candidates if their faith is used as a yardstick.Ill stick with the Magestrium-the right to life is supreme
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LisaA
Guest
Sorry if facts don’t impress you. A parrot can quote Scripture. It means nothing. Obama has done nothing to demonstrate faith through his actions. It’s easy to claim to be a Christian but a little harder to live your faith. As SamH noted, first Obama claimed to be a devoted follower of Rev Wright, he married Michelle and Barack Obama, the children were brought to church week upon week. Then when some hateful videos emerged, he then claimed that in 20 years he’d never heard any such rhetoric. He’s quick to honor Muslim days of worship but skips Christian celebrations such as the National Day of Prayer. As I said previously he did no volunteer work, but was a paid activist. He is anything but HUMBLE, a legend in his own mind.When was your last reading of Job? He bewailed his fate and enumerated every aspect of his ‘virtuous’ life; he put God in the witness box so to speak, demanding that He produce evidence of his (Job’s) wrongdoing because he was confident of his righteousness! God answered him with: ‘I am who I am and I do what I do’ (in a nutshell) and paused to let Job get his foot out of his mouth.
So, needless to say, your cataloging of the supposed virtues of Romney versus Obama does not impress me in the least. If we want to compare Christianity, we have to look BOTH at works and at faith. So, shall we start from the first chapter of St Matthew’s Gospel? I like to begin at the beginning…
When Obama first ran I was a relatively new Catholic but even then the abortion record horrified me. I could never have voted for him on that criteria alone. Subsequently he’s doubled down on his support for this horror. He does what suits his seemingly endless desire for power and to control our lives.
I have seen nothing to indicate he is a believer, other than his claims…as we’ve seen he has a lot of problem distinguishing the truth from fiction. I don’t think his life gives his claims the slightest credibility
Lisa
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LisaA
Guest
If you know anything about your faith you should know you can only judge actions, not what is in a person’s heart. Please stop making claims for which you have absolutely no knowledge or credibility. You obviously know little about the Mormon faith nor have provided the slightest bit of evidence that Mitt Romney will govern the USA as a Mormon elder.How?
You want a president that thinks about 20% of his people were “sinners” in the “pre-mortal life” and therefore deserve all the suffering they get?
With the changes in teaching that happen in the Mormon faith, he could easily support gay marriage within four years.
Lisa
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estesbob
Guest
Can you give us an example of the kind of Mormon based legislation Romney is going to try and pass that you fear? Did he attempt pass this legislation when he was in Massachusetts.?Would you care that he would pass legislation that is in keeping with the Mormon faith’s teachings? Teachings which are utterly opposed to Catholic ones? Teachings that are grave sins?
I am trying to get Catholics to understand that this “good” person they want to elect is nothing of the sort. He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. If Romney is elected then there will be hard times ahead for the Church, maybe not within the first four years but certainly within ten years. This man wishes to increase the Chinese influence in the world by borrowing lots of money from them, making the US subservient to the Chinese. That’s the same Chinese Government that has made being Catholic illegal and tortures, rapes, imprisons and executes Catholics.
Who cares? The rest of the world does, even if Americans themselves don’t. We’d quite like the most powerful country in the world to remain the US, not China.
I’m a little puzzled as to why you’re telling Catholics we cannot vote for Romney because he is a mormon when Cardinal Dolan has written the exact opposite. In fact I cannot find a single member of the magesterium or church document the cautions Catholics against voting for Mormons,
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starsmurf
Guest
Romney accuses poor people of being victims and then his supporters come out with stuff like this. The media in the US has been objectively assessed by independent media groups. They found that the media was overwhelmingly against Obama. They would print lies and misquotes from Obama, while not reporting things that would reflect badly on Romney. It’s the same tactic that Mormon missionaries use, any critism of their faith or questioning the rational for it, is seen as the attack of Satan.Seekerz in all fairness I think you read ABOUT things Romney said or did but don’t actually hear the words or read the text. The “borrow from your parents” statement was part of a speech to what appeared to be a group of students where he suggested that one of the great things about America is that we can chase our dreams and he suggests to these young people to do this…“get an education, borrow money from your parents to start a business…” this was ONE idea in a group of ideas to tell the young people that they have many options because of the freedom of this country. He also went onto describe how a couple of well known businesses were formed, one “Jimmy John’s” was indeed the result of a young man who didn’t want to go to college and asked his dad for a loan. He also talked about Papa John’s Pizza and how that started from one restaurant and now has grown nationwide.
He was not simply telling some young person “go borrow from Daddy Warbucks” but giving these young people some inspiration, some ideas and letting them know they have the opportunity to truly chase their dreams.
**You know it saddens me that the media is SO invested in Obama that they would do ANYTHING to demean Mitt Romney who is an honest and decent man. Regardless of whether you think he should be President, he should not have to be constantly fighting the lies and misinformation that the media regurgitates on a daily basis.
**
Lisa
PS I can get you the link to the speech if you want to hear it for yourself.
I wouldn’t describe Romney as “honest and decent” when he believes that as a Catholic, you’re a member of the Church of Satan or that if you have Black skin or have any Black ancestors you sinned in the pre-mortal life by supporting Satan. He is a member of a church that supports abortion under many circumstances and that thinks contraception is ok. Romney only changed his stance on abortion to make him more electable, not because it is something that he believes.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Nor have any cautioned about converting to Mormonism. So what?In fact I cannot find a single member of the magesterium or church document that cautions Catholics against voting for Mormons,
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seekerz
Guest
Wow. Just wow.Sorry if facts don’t impress you. A parrot can quote Scripture. It means nothing. Obama has done nothing to demonstrate faith through his actions. It’s easy to claim to be a Christian but a little harder to live your faith. As SamH noted, first Obama claimed to be a devoted follower of Rev Wright, he married Michelle and Barack Obama, the children were brought to church week upon week. Then when some hateful videos emerged, he then claimed that in 20 years he’d never heard any such rhetoric. He’s quick to honor Muslim days of worship but skips Christian celebrations such as the National Day of Prayer. As I said previously he did no volunteer work, but was a paid activist. He is anything but HUMBLE, a legend in his own mind.
When Obama first ran I was a relatively new Catholic but even then the abortion record horrified me. I could never have voted for him on that criteria alone. Subsequently he’s doubled down on his support for this horror. He does what suits his seemingly endless desire for power and to control our lives.
I have seen nothing to indicate he is a believer, other than his claims…as we’ve seen he has a lot of problem distinguishing the truth from fiction. I don’t think his life gives his claims the slightest credibility
Lisa
A parrot did not quote Scripture just now - I did. Have a refutation for what I said? Provide it. Otherwise gracefully concede the point.
As for the Obama-Muslim inferences, Muslims believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; they honor Jesus and his mother and it is my impression that they believe the Virgin Birth. What do Mormons believe?
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starsmurf
Guest
Actually, the Catholic Church teaches that it is important what is in your heart, hence things like “baptism of desire” etc.If you know anything about your faith you should know you can only judge actions, not what is in a person’s heart. Please stop making claims for which you have absolutely no knowledge or credibility. You obviously know little about the Mormon faith nor have provided the slightest bit of evidence that Mitt Romney will govern the USA as a Mormon elder.
Lisa
I know far more about the Mormon faith and its teachings than you do. All that comes from their own teachings or from Isaiah Bennett’s book, “Inside Mormonism”. He’s part of Catholic Answers and is a Catholic priest who converted to Mormonism, taught in their Institutes of Religion and then reverted to the Catholic faith. So that information is totally accurate.
Mormonism teaches that you have to do everything as a Mormon, including govern.
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SamH
Guest
If I am going to spend time tutoring you on current events I will need to be paid.Sure it is. That’s why I see (at least) no difference in the two candidates if their faith is used as a yardstick.
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rlg94086
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Cardinal Dolan made it clear that Romney’s Mormonism was not a reason to not vote for the man. Starsmurf, and others, provide it as the primary reason. Whom do you agree with - the Cardinal or the bigoted posters?Nor have any cautioned about converting to Mormonism. So what?
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SamH
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What is in your heart is indeed it is important, but you can’t judge that, which why you do judge them by their acts.Actually, the Catholic Church teaches that it is important what is in your heart, hence things like “baptism of desire” etc.
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SamH
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It would seem the bigoted posters think they have someone’s ear.Cardinal Dolan made it clear that Romney’s Mormonism was not a reason to not vote for the man. Starsmurf, and others, provide it as the primary reason. Whom do you agree with - the Cardinal or the bigoted posters?
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estesbob
Guest
That is not true and you have not been able to provide a single statement from a single member of the magisterium to back up your assertion. Those of us expressing the teachings of the church, on the other hand, have repeatedly backed up our assertions with direct quotes. For example:Sure it is. That’s why I see (at least) no difference in the two candidates if their faith is used as a yardstick.
*No, you can never vote for someone who favors absolutely what’s called the ‘right to choice’ of a woman to destroy human life in her womb, or the right to a procured abortion,
“You may in some circumstances where you don’t have any candidate who is proposing to eliminate all abortion, choose the candidate who will most limit this grave evil in our country, but you could never justify voting for a candidate who not only does not want to limit abortion but believes that it should be available to everyone,” *
Cardinal Burke
jJst because, in your mind, you have been able to twist church teaching to rationalize your vote for obama doesn’t mean it in any way reflects the teachings of the church. We should all bear in mind what the church says about conscience:
I*n the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the **authoritative teaching of the Church.**55 *
abortion and homosexual marriage are not just other political issues to be thrown into the mix and Wade along with the candidates other policies. They are intrinsic evils and can never be supported regardless of how much you may admire candidates other policies. Without the right to life all other rights are meaningless.
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starsmurf
Guest
I am warning Catholics that this faith is not what you think it is. People have frothed at the mouth over Obama “not being Christian” but will elect a self-professed non-Christian?Can you give us an example of the kind of Mormon based legislation Romney is going to try and pass that you fear? Did he attempt pass this legislation when he was in Massachusetts.?
I’m a little puzzled as to why you’re telling Catholics we cannot vote for Romney because he is a mormon when Cardinal Dolan has written the exact opposite. In fact I cannot find a single member of the magesterium or church document the cautions Catholics against voting for Mormons,
I can only conclude that Cardinal Dolan doesn’t have a full understanding of the Mormon faith and how quickly it can change its teachings to suit the times. It is an easy mistake to make as the Mormon faith portrays itself as all family-friendly, wholesome and Christian, when it is not that.
Am I correct in thinking that the new president is sworn-in using a Bible? If so, how can you trust a man who doesn’t believe that the Bible is true?
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seekerz
Guest
Tutoring me from what sources? Google? Umm, thanks for the offer, but when ‘the internet’ is quoted as a source, buyer (or in this case, student) beware!If I am going to spend time tutoring you on current events I will need to be paid.
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SamH
Guest
You could try watching “news” sources but that seems a little beyond your grasp.Tutoring me from what sources? Google? Umm, thanks for the offer, but when ‘the internet’ is quoted as a source, buyer (or in this case, student) beware!
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seekerz
Guest
What is “not true”? Seriously, you write a 6-paragraph post to convince me that I see a difference which I have clearly stated that I don’t see? I don’t need a road map to find (or express) what is in MY OWN mind. I don’t see a difference between the two candidates on abortion, based on their faith - I stand by that.That is not true and you have not been able to provide a single statement from a single member of the magisterium to back up your assertion. Those of us expressing the teachings of the church, on the other hand, have repeatedly backed up our assertions with direct quotes. For example:
*No, you can never vote for someone who favors absolutely what’s called the ‘right to choice’ of a woman to destroy human life in her womb, or the right to a procured abortion,
“You may in some circumstances where you don’t have any candidate who is proposing to eliminate all abortion, choose the candidate who will most limit this grave evil in our country, but you could never justify voting for a candidate who not only does not want to limit abortion but believes that it should be available to everyone,” *
Cardinal Burke
jJst because, in your mind, you have been able to twist church teaching to rationalize your vote for obama doesn’t mean it in any way reflects the teachings of the church. We should all bear in mind what the church says about conscience:
I*n the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the **authoritative teaching of the Church.***55
abortion and homosexual marriage are not just other political issues to be thrown into the mix and Wade along with the candidates other policies. They are intrinsic evils and can never be supported regardless of how much you may admire candidates other policies. Without the right to life all other rights are meaningless.
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seekerz
Guest
Yet you have failed to cite a single news (or other reliable) source for allegations of a personal nature that you freely made against the president.You could try watching “news” sources but that seems a little beyond your grasp.
That’s all it really boils down to: failing to back with objective proof the words you presented as fact.
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