Romney tells vets dangerous world demands powerful military

[livingwordunity]

Democrats always make cuts in pay and benefits to the troops and vets while Republicans always give the troops and vets more money.

 

[oldcelt]

This from a man who took a deferment during the Vietnam War.

John

 

[LisaA]

But this requires that the fundamental principles upon which peace is based in today’s world be replaced by an altogether different one, namely, the realization that true and lasting peace among nations cannot consist in the possession of an equal supply of armaments but only in mutual trust. And We are confident that this can be achieved, for it is a thing which not only is dictated by common sense, but is in itself most desirable and most fruitful of good.

This quote is from the papal encyclical (John XXIII) Pacem in Terris:

Wonderful theory but this will NEVER happen. I do not trust the Iranians, the Russians, the Chinese, the Pakistanis, the NoKos and there are more on the list. Do you?

As Jean Kirkpatrick said our security must not be based on the promises of our enemies. To believe otherwise insanity writ large. It IS a dangerous world out there. I don’t see the objection to pointing out the obvious.

But hey it’s a good chance to blame Bush, rail against the Iraq war and bring Vietnam in again. I’d rather live in the present and hope for the future than live mired in the past.

YMMV

Lisa

 

[meltzerboy]

Wonderful theory but this will NEVER happen. I do not trust the Iranians, the Russians, the Chinese, the Pakistanis, the NoKos and there are more on the list. Do you?

As Jean Kirkpatrick said our security must not be based on the promises of our enemies. To believe otherwise insanity writ large. It IS a dangerous world out there. I don’t see the objection to pointing out the obvious.

But hey it’s a good chance to blame Bush, rail against the Iraq war and bring Vietnam in again. I’d rather live in the present and hope for the future than live mired in the past.

YMMV

Lisa

Our hope for the future depends, at least in part, on some knowledge of the past so that we don’t repeat the same mistakes.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

If Romney had any business savvy he’d be advocating for cuts to the DOD budget. Last time the GAO was able to perform a full audit, in 2001, it found that the DOD couldn’t account for 25% of its expenditures. The chief auditor last reported that they couldn’t even perform a full audit because the DOD wasn’t keeping documentation of its expenses which, by the way, is a violation of federal law. Throwing billions more into the abyss isn’t going to produce a stronger military.

 

[7_Sorrows]

This philosophy also sounds like George W. Bush’s new world order and Reagan’s initial belief that the Soviet Union is an evil empire. It is backward thinking. Sure, we must be strong militarily, but not for the purpose of world domination. Romney’s foreign policy ideas are even more frightening than his domestic ones.

i don’t think our country has every had the philosophy that we need a strong military for the purpose of world domination. i haven’t heard any words from romney that promotes that philosophy either.

 

[LisaA]

If Romney had any business savvy he’d be advocating for cuts to the DOD budget. Last time the GAO was able to perform a full audit, in 2001, it found that the DOD couldn’t account for 25% of its expenditures. The chief auditor last reported that they couldn’t even perform a full audit because the DOD wasn’t keeping documentation of its expenses which, by the way, is a violation of federal law. Throwing billions more into the abyss isn’t going to produce a stronger military.

Yeah just the same as a trillion dollar “stimulus” thrown down a rathole didn’t produce a stronger economy. Again, Romney is a businessman. He has a record of turning around businesses and events such as the Olympics. His approach to Defense, I believe, would be as a businessman rather than an ideologue of some kind (whether hawk or dove ideology is not going to bring good results).

Not even Leon Panetta disputes that the DD should be accountable for its spending. But a specific percentage cut without analysis of the best places to trim, remove or expand programs makes no sense either.

Lisa

 

[7_Sorrows]

I think you would be hard pressed to find a good definition of a “bully” country that could not also be applied to the US at this moment. We kill innocent people, force small governments like Afganistan’s to comply to occupation or get destroyed, impose sanctions on countries that want to develop powerful weapons despite developing the same weapons ourselves. Sure we have excuses for all of it, but to an outsider the US likely doesn’t look much better than a lot of other “bullies” look to us.

so you want unstable governments with unstable leaders to possess powerful weapons?
science and technology have advanced so much that new powerful weapons are being developed all the time. we have to face reality. have you forgotten all the acts of terrorism that were committed in the 80’s and 90’s and finally ending with 9/11? many countries were being bullied by the terrorists. at some point you have to take a stand and say “no more”. as a result of this, regulations have been put in place to track finances that could be used by terrorist organizations and countries other than the u.s. are also taking a firm stance against terrorist organizations in their own countries and trying to stay one step ahead of the terrorists who want to kill others.

 

[Ridgerunner]

so you want unstable governments with unstable leaders to possess powerful weapons?
science and technology have advanced so much that new powerful weapons are being developed all the time. we have to face reality. have you forgotten all the acts of terrorism that were committed in the 80’s and 90’s and finally ending with 9/11? many countries were being bullied by the terrorists. at some point you have to take a stand and say “no more”. as a result of this, regulations have been put in place to track finances that could be used by terrorist organizations and countries other than the u.s. are also taking a firm stance against terrorist organizations in their own countries and trying to stay one step ahead of the terrorists who want to kill others.

There have been a lot of wars in the 21st century. historyguy.com/21st_century_wars.html. And not just the war on terror.

I really do wonder how many critics of the Iraq War (Phas I and Phase II) would return to the status quo ante if they could wave a magic wand and make it happen.

Even Phase II. Saddam Hussein, during his career, killed a million people, invaded two countries and started one world war. He used WMD in one of those wars and on his own people. He paid parents to send their unbalanced children to die as suicide bombers against Israeli civilians. One of these times, I really would like to see a critic of the Iraq War say “I would like to see Saddam Hussein, Uday and Qusay, back in power, murders, WMD, rape rooms and all. If only I could make that happen, I would.”

But they don’t.

 

[7_Sorrows]

There have been a lot of wars in the 21st century. historyguy.com/21st_century_wars.html. And not just the war on terror.

I really do wonder how many critics of the Iraq War (Phas I and Phase II) would return to the status quo ante if they could wave a magic wand and make it happen.

Even Phase II. Saddam Hussein, during his career, killed a million people, invaded two countries and started one world war. He used WMD in one of those wars and on his own people. He paid parents to send their unbalanced children to die as suicide bombers against Israeli civilians. One of these times, I really would like to see a critic of the Iraq War say “I would like to see Saddam Hussein, Uday and Qusay, back in power, murders, WMD, rape rooms and all. If only I could make that happen, I would.”

But they don’t.

we have come a long way in trying to make the world a better and safer place, but there are always going to be those governments or organizations who will be wanting to look for opportunities to cause trouble within their own countries or others. i think saddam and his two sons, uday and qusay, thought that they were going to be able to rule and terrorize their people for years to come. i know life isn’t perfect in the middle east, but i hope someday the people of iraq, syria, iran, afghanistan, and other areas around the world will be able to live a better life.

 

[PatrickSebast]

so you want unstable governments with unstable leaders to possess powerful weapons?
science and technology have advanced so much that new powerful weapons are being developed all the time. we have to face reality. have you forgotten all the acts of terrorism that were committed in the 80’s and 90’s and finally ending with 9/11? many countries were being bullied by the terrorists. at some point you have to take a stand and say “no more”. as a result of this, regulations have been put in place to track finances that could be used by terrorist organizations and countries other than the u.s. are also taking a firm stance against terrorist organizations in their own countries and trying to stay one step ahead of the terrorists who want to kill others.

I never indicated that I want unstable government with unstable leaders to possess powerful weapons. I said that the US could very easily be viewed as a bully, and there really isn’t any doubt about that, we tend to push a lot of smaller countries around.

Further more if we are going to talk about facing reality that means accepting that because of advances in science in technology that no matter how hard we kick and scream people we don’t particularly get along with are eventually going to have access to super-weapons. Nuclear secrets aren’t really that secret anymore, and the technology to produce nuclear power as well as the weapons is only going to get cheaper and more accessible. Eventually we are going to have to learn to promote things like mutual understandings and try to get along with one another.

 

[LisaA]

I never indicated that I want unstable government with unstable leaders to possess powerful weapons. I said that the US could very easily be viewed as a bully, and there really isn’t any doubt about that, we tend to push a lot of smaller countries around.

Eventually we are going to have to learn to promote things like mutual understandings and try to get along with one another.

Sorry but the problem with the “hold hands and sing Kum Bay Ya” plan is that we cannot control the other side. We cannot compel them with talk and diplomacy to do what they either don’t want to do or what they believe is in their self interest. We can only control what WE do.

I don’t think anything we can say or do will create “mutual understanding” with NoKo or Iran. The world IS a dangerous place and so far no philosophy has ever impressed me more than Teddy R’s speak softly and carry a big stick. Victor Davis Hansen, an expert on history and war has often said that the best thing to prevent war is to be strong. Countries with ill intent rarely attack a stronger country. They look for weakness and exploit it. I think it behooves us to be the biggest baddest tiger in the jungle.

Lisa

 

[PatrickSebast]

Sorry but the problem with the “hold hands and sing Kum Bay Ya” plan is that we cannot control the other side. We cannot compel them with talk and diplomacy to do what they either don’t want to do or what they believe is in their self interest. We can only control what WE do.

I don’t think anything we can say or do will create “mutual understanding” with NoKo or Iran. The world IS a dangerous place and so far no philosophy has ever impressed me more than Teddy R’s speak softly and carry a big stick. Victor Davis Hansen, an expert on history and war has often said that the best thing to prevent war is to be strong. Countries with ill intent rarely attack a stronger country. They look for weakness and exploit it. I think it behooves us to be the biggest baddest tiger in the jungle.

Lisa

We aren’t speaking softly and carrying a big stick though, if anything the US is screaming and wildly flailing about with its large stick, then if we hit the wrong person we tell them they shouldn’t have been standing there.

 

[gnjsdad]

We aren’t speaking softly and carrying a big stick though, if anything the US is screaming and wildly flailing about with its large stick, then if we hit the wrong person we tell them they shouldn’t have been standing there.

America has been flailing with its big stick, smashing innocents and creating enemies with it for decades now.

John Quincy Adams long ago warned against what America has now become. Too bad we stopped listening.

And now, friends and countrymen, if the wise and learned philosophers of* the elder world, the first observers of nutation and aberration, the discoverers of maddening ether and invisible planets, the inventors of Congreve rockets and Shrapnel shells, should find their hearts disposed to enquire what has America done for the benefit of mankind? Let our answer be this: America, with the same voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to mankind the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity. She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights. She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own. She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart. She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right. Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy*. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force… She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit.****…

 

[7_Sorrows]

Sorry but the problem with the “hold hands and sing Kum Bay Ya” plan is that we cannot control the other side. We cannot compel them with talk and diplomacy to do what they either don’t want to do or what they believe is in their self interest. We can only control what WE do.

I don’t think anything we can say or do will create “mutual understanding” with NoKo or Iran. The world IS a dangerous place and so far no philosophy has ever impressed me more than Teddy R’s speak softly and carry a big stick. Victor Davis Hansen, an expert on history and war has often said that the best thing to prevent war is to be strong. Countries with ill intent rarely attack a stronger country. They look for weakness and exploit it. I think it behooves us to be the biggest baddest tiger in the jungle.

Lisa

couldn’t agree with you more.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

i definitely agree with your first point. we need a strong and well-trained military.
i also believe that we need to support our veterans while in service and after.

the world has always been dangerous throughout history and will no doubt continue to be.
so we need to be prepared and ready to face whatever threat there might be.

as for your point 2, there are legitimate concerns in our world right now that could turn into threats so, again, we need to be prepared. i also don’t like the us vs. them attitude when it is blown out of proportion. we shouldn’t hide our heads in the sand either.

What happens if the biggest threat to global security is us? I mean lets face it. America has had its hand in just about every armed conflict in the last two or three decades. 9/11 was not an out of the blue attack. It was a response for america sticking its nose where it didn’t belong and pushing pushing pushing. Does that justify the bloodshed on either side? Of course not. But expanding america’s military will only be seen as an act of aggression. Look at how much we spend every year? We spend well over double what China does with their military every year and nuclear options aside, by all accounts and purposes China has the better and stronger military. The government has its fiscal and security responsibilities all screwed up. And we all suffer for it.

 

[7_Sorrows]

What happens if the biggest threat to global security is us? I mean lets face it. America has had its hand in just about every armed conflict in the last two or three decades. 9/11 was not an out of the blue attack. It was a response for america sticking its nose where it didn’t belong and pushing pushing pushing. Does that justify the bloodshed on either side? Of course not. But expanding america’s military will only be seen as an act of aggression. Look at how much we spend every year? We spend well over double what China does with their military every year and nuclear options aside, by all accounts and purposes China has the better and stronger military. The government has its fiscal and security responsibilities all screwed up. And we all suffer for it.

well, i am definitely glad that we got involved in the war against germany and japan.
i suppose it was good that we got involved in the conflict in korea because at least the south koreans can live in a democracy. i wish that vietnam could have had a better ending for the vietnamese.
you are right, 9/11 was not an attack out of the blue. there had been acts of terrorism by these groups since the 1970’s throughout the world. the people who attacked us on 9/11 are against us because we side with israel. they want israel destroyed.
why don’t you attack hollywood for all the money thrown away on the ridiculous movies they make every year and the worthless television shows that they produce? think of all the billions of dollars that go to pay writers, directors, screenwriters, actors, etc. for movies and television shows that really have no rewarding value. this is another reason THEY hate us. because of the promiscuous culture we promote in our music, tv and cinema. with that i can agree with them.
another point, what about all of the money given away each year for food stamps, welfare, disability, housing? do you ever wonder how much of that is given away fraudulently?
so don’t single out the military as the bad guy. yes, these past 2 wars have cost money.
i wish 9/11 had never happened. i wish they had never brought their acts of terrorism to our soil and comandeer the planes and do what they did that terrible day. i am sorry for alll the people who lost their lives that day and their families. would you rather be speaking arabic someday or chinese or russian?

 

[SamH]

We aren’t speaking softly and carrying a big stick though, if anything the US is screaming and wildly flailing about with its large stick, then if we hit the wrong person we tell them they shouldn’t have been standing there.

Obama is the one holding the stick.

 

[gnjsdad]

yes, these past 2 wars have cost money.

“Cost money”? That’s got to be the understatement of the year. The foreign adventure follies AKA the Iraq and Afghan wars have bankrupted us.

It’s totally revealing of the Republican Party’s mindset that it’s candidate, Mitt Romney, in this so-called age of austerity, has opposed any cuts whatsoever in military spending; spending which far outstrips the combined military spending of every other power on earth. He is doing the bidding of his defense contractor patrons.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

would you rather be speaking arabic someday or chinese or russian?

Any one of them. Those are three good languages with rich literatures and cultures and with large populations who speak them. As for me personally, я не против говорить на русском языке.