Romney: Welfare Moms Need 'Dignity of Work'

[Lujack]

If he found so humiliating his mother could have declined at any time.

Wow. That’s just about the most cold-hearted thing I’ve read on here. I should probably just dismiss this as trolling, but I won’t.

My great-grandmother cleaned movie theaters for a living; my great-grandfather was dead. She knew full well that she was poor, and it was humiliating enough for her to have to send my grandfather to go to work as a bagel delivery boy at 9 years old because even with relief they still didn’t have enough money to keep the house warm or food on the table.

She actually had a lot to be proud of, successfully raising a good son under those circumstances. But the means-test people went out of their way to make her feel like a failure because she needed help.

I’m not telling this story for the purpose of getting people to say “Wow, Lujack’s great-grandmother was a great woman”; she was, but she also wasn’t uncommon. The means-test was humiliating, and it was intentionally designed to be so, by people like you, SamH, who want poor people to feel even worse about being poor than they already are.

To the person who I originally responded to, please don’t take that as an insult aimed against you, because it isn’t.

 

[Lujack]

That is true but the kids could starve go without shelter or clothing or who knows what else.
I was forced by my son’s infirmities to go with him to submit his application for SSI and Medicare/Medicaid when he aged out of my insurance. It is still a soulless spirit destroying process. But, you want the man’s money you dance to his tune.

At the same time, though, isn’t it possible to design the system so that it isn’t a soulles, spirit destroying process? As a society, we are both “the man” and the aid recipient, so we have the ability to set up our system with the perspectives and best interests of both in mind. There is no dichotomy between the two (my grandfather is, again, a good example of this since he became a police officer; he never stopped being the little kid who was on relief and delivered bagels for a living even after he became the beat cop; both things were always in him).

 

[_Abyssinia]

Typical Romney. Always all over the place. I saw a tape of him yesterday defending Roe v Wade and a woman’s right to choose back in his days in Massachusetts. Then last wk they’re defending a woman’s choice and Ann’s choice to stay at home. Now the next wk, stay at home moms shouldn’t have a choice and should not stay at home for their dignity.

You do realize that both Barack Obama and Joe Biden touted ‘dignity to work’ in 2008 and that President Clinton and the Democrats passed welfare reform supporting it too?

buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/dignity-of-work-first-touted-by-obama-biden

An Obama supporter like yourself criticizing Romney for his past position on abortion is weird, considering Barack Obama is the pro abortion president in the history of America. I bet you can find a video of Ronald Reagen showing support for Roe vs Wade too, before he changed his position.

Ann Romney was not on government welfare. Mitt Romney encouraging mothers who stay at home to go out to paid work rather than depend on welfare is different than Hilary Rosen saying Ann Romney did not do a day of work in her life.

 

[SamH]

I’m not telling this story for the purpose of getting people to say “Wow, Lujack’s great-grandmother was a great woman”; she was, but she also wasn’t uncommon. The means-test was humiliating, and it was intentionally designed to be so, by people like you, SamH, who want poor people to feel even worse about being poor than they already are.

To the person who I originally responded to, please don’t take that as an insult aimed against you, because it isn’t.

What do you know about “people like me”?

I just found it astounding that a man would hold a life long grudge against those that fed and clothed him in his time of need.

 

[SamH]

That is true but the kids could starve go without shelter or clothing or who knows what else.
I was forced by my son’s infirmities to go with him to submit his application for SSI and Medicare/Medicaid when he aged out of my insurance. It is still a soulless spirit destroying process. But, you want the man’s money you dance to his tune.

And that is the entire point that Romney was making about the Dignity of Work.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I’m curious Stinkcat, how old are you, and do you work?

Actually, most jobs these days don’t require an able-bodied man to do them. Most people just sit on their butts and stare at a computer.

Yes, I work and I am middle aged. So the question is: Should I be entitled to the fruit of someone else’s labor just because I pass an arbitrary age. Now, if the government offers me the dole, will I take it? Yes, because my greed exceeds my desire to avoid being a hypocrite. On the other hand, by the time I get that age I will have had over 40 years in the labor force, plenty of time in my opinion to save up money for my retirement.

 

[stevegravy]

At the same time, though, isn’t it possible to design the system so that it isn’t a soulles, spirit destroying process? As a society, we are both “the man” and the aid recipient, so we have the ability to set up our system with the perspectives and best interests of both in mind. There is no dichotomy between the two (my grandfather is, again, a good example of this since he became a police officer; he never stopped being the little kid who was on relief and delivered bagels for a living even after he became the beat cop; both things were always in him).

I hope someday that may be realized but my experience it is we the people vs the mandarins of the bureaucracy.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Yes, I work and I am middle aged. So the question is: Should I be entitled to the fruit of someone else’s labor just because I pass an arbitrary age. Now, if the government offers me the dole, will I take it? Yes, because my greed exceeds my desire to avoid being a hypocrite. On the other hand, by the time I get that age I will have had over 40 years in the labor force, plenty of time in my opinion to save up money for my retirement.

I am 56 and have been working all my life, but not at a very lucrative job. Therefore, when I retire if I do at 65, I will probably still need to work at least part time, even with social security and my savings.

 

[Lujack]

What do you know about “people like me”?

All I know is what you post on here.

I just found it astounding that a man would hold a life long grudge against those that fed and clothed him in his time of need.

He didn’t hold a lifelong grudge against the people who provided the relief. He held a life-long grudge against the people who did the means-testing (or more accurately, the system of means-testing itself). They also got help from the Catholic Church and from the political machine that at that time controlled the city where he grew up; they did not provide their aid in a soul-crushing manner (the machine, in fact, would drop off a ton of coal and a turkey on the doorstep of the poor Irish families every Thanksgiving; this was unasked for). There are really three sources of that, I think.

The first is that he didn’t believe the means-tester worked nearly as hard as his mother and therefore had no right to judge her work ethic. The second was (and he always remembered this; I guess some things just stick with you) that her mother once went window-shopping downtown and got a severe tongue lashing from the means-tester that she had no business window-shopping in stores she knew she couldn’t afford to buy from.

The third is actually what you just said-the means-testers didn’t feed and clothe him in his time of need. He and his mother did that. The relief people helped; the Catholic Church helped; the political machine helped…but she was working endless hours as a maid and he was delivering bagels at the age of 9. It was the Christian duty of the means-testers to help them; it was his own Christian duty (which he fulfilled) to help others once he could. It was not part of their Christian duty to deliberately humiliate the poor. And like I said, my grandfather’s story is not uncommon. All societies had that-Frank McCourt’s dislike for the way the St. Vincent DePaul Society smugly humiliated his mother in Angela’s Ashes is another good example.

 

[nickiwool]

Well this is a tricky subject. I used to be against welfare/foodstamps ect. But as of lately I see nothing wrong with it expect that I wish there was a way to tell the ones that really need it from the ones who abuse it. For example. I have 4 children when my husband lost his job we did everything possible to not go the route of welfare. I owned my childhood home that I was forced to sell after two years of his job loss. So didn’t forclose or anything but still I sold everything I had including pawning our wedding rings to make the rent after selling my house. After everything was sold and my husband still wasn’t able to find work, I finally put my pride aside and got on assistance. Now, if it weren’t for assistance then my children would have never had our place to rent or had food to eat. We where given a hundred under the rent amount so we where not only late every month but also having to find a way to come up with that other hundred AND the utilites which would always shut off. Our children had about two sets of outfits all year for school. And because they kicked my husband off the program we would always run out of foodstamps two weeks before our next set date to recieve more food. He was kicked only because he couldnt attend that "welfare to work"class! Now before you jump to “why didn’t he make it” let me explain. He is an electrican for the san fransisco bay area. Being with the union he had to drive there (2 hours away) when there was a call out for work, Go there and hope to get the job. There’s a list of men looking for work, when there’s a call they give it to the first on the list, if that persons not there they give it to the next and so on, you never know who’s going that day for work so you have to go every time just in case. Because of this, he was kicked because there is no program for people in this situation. We have no family on either side so we desperatly needed that extra 100 for rent and 100 for food, but nope kicked him. He finally got into a higher electrical possition where there is constant work. Now the furture looks good. Thank God. But, I will never forget what we went through. God told us to have children not to worry because he will take care of us. I believe that because he did. But now because I lived in it the horrors of assistance I see it differently now. I have no problem with my husbands taxes going to those that need it and I would continue to pay for them to stay home with their babies until the youngest is 5 in kinder. But of coarse they kick people after the youngest is 2. We belong with our babies. My point is that the old saying “it takes a village to raise a child” stands true. We need to help eachother to raise these gifts of babies. Let God deal with those that take advantage of the system. Let is not judge we have no way of knowing who’s abusing it to buy nails at the salon or who lived like I did for 2 years.

-Nicki

 

[rlg94086]

It’s not as easy as it sounds.

Many single moms would like to work, but the cost of day care, takes every cent they make working.

Most single moms work part time jobs, but also need some help with day-care so they can work.

School vacation time makes it even more difficult.

OH, and before you blame them for having kids and being single, many of their husbands abandoned them, and left them to fend for themselves.

I’m thankful that my wife was able to stay home and raise our kids for the first 12 years of their life, before she eventually went to work part time. We were blessed in that my income could make this possible.

However, we knew mother’s who could not do this, as their husbands were alcholics who paid nothing for child support.

So don’t be too quick to jump on Romney’s band wagon. He’s a man who is totally disconnected with such issues.

Jim

Romney’s not disconnected. When he made those comments, he was supporting increased entitlements for daycare to allow those moms to work. Something, I suppose, that you would favor.

While being a stay-at-home parent is dignified work, living on the public dole is not. I realize some liberals can’t wrap their minds around these concepts. As I said in the other thread on this subject, I sincerely hope…no, beg and plead…that all Obama supporters push for expansion of welfare, so all moms can stay home with their children. It’s the only right thing to do! Go for it! Be bold in your support of increased welfare!

 

[nickiwool]

samH,

I think your missing the point. We are grateful for the help. But people make it hard to accept assistance. As I was saying I did everything I could for two years before accepting aid. But when you made your comment of if it where to embarassing for his mom then she shouldn’t have went in to accept it. Its people who think that way that make it hard for us. But as I said in my comment. I was against the welfare system too until I walked in those shoes, in other words walked into the grandfathers mothers shoes. perhaps you where lucky enough not to lose your job, or don’t have many children to clothe whatever it may be you think just as how I had. I am glad God taught me this lesson because it humbled me so much.

-Nicki

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Romney’s not disconnected. When he made those comments, he was supporting increased entitlements for daycare to allow those moms to work. Something, I suppose, that you would favor.

While being a stay-at-home parent is dignified work, living on the public dole is not. I realize some liberals can’t wrap their minds around these concepts. As I said in the other thread on this subject, I sincerely hope…no, beg and plead…that all Obama supporters push for expansion of welfare, so all moms can stay home with their children. It’s the only right thing to do! Go for it! Be bold in your support of increased welfare!

Single moms with a bunch of kids really almost have to get some “dole”. Their lives are almost impossible without it, what a mess. I don’t think it’s good or right that they are doing this, but they do need welfare, and so do their kids. Giving them “work” and daycare is really just giving them welfare, because both are government assisted, and because they cannot support themselves or their kids without government assistence.

 

[rlg94086]

Single moms with a bunch of kids really almost have to get some “dole”. Their lives are almost impossible without it, what a mess. I don’t think it’s good or right that they are doing this, but they do need welfare, and so do their kids. Giving them “work” and daycare is really just giving them welfare, because both are government assisted, and because they cannot support themselves or their kids without government assistence.

Define “bunch of kids.” My mom raised us as a single mom working as a secretary and never had to take government assistance. There were three of us, and the youngest is physically handicapped. Is she some super mom exception?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Define “bunch of kids.” My mom raised us as a single mom working as a secretary and never had to take government assistance. There were three of us, and the youngest is physically handicapped. Is she some super mom exception?

Yes she is, she sounds like an amazing, hard-working woman.

Most single moms these days are on welfare, so your mother is indeed, an exception.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

We have to be careful about means testing. My grandfather was in every way a classic conservative-I don’t think he voted for a Democrat after Harry Truman. However, he grew up in the 1930’s on relief, and the one thing he always, always hated was the way means testing was conducted and had very strong feelings about how people on welfare/relief were treated-to him, the means test that his mother had to go through was the most dehumanizing and humiliating process imaginable, and it still got him angry at 85 years old.

No doubt this can be a concern. But, keep in mind that you loose freedoms if you want the check.

 

[rlg94086]

Yes she is, she sounds like an amazing, hard-working woman.

Most single moms these days are on welfare, so your mother is indeed, an exception.

Really? Do you have any figures to back that up?

My mother is incredible, but I don’t think that other mothers are incapable, as liberals seem to think. Women have an amazing capacity.

 

[SamH]

All I know is what you post on here. .

Agreed, so don’t pretend you know me.

He didn’t hold a lifelong grudge against the people who provided the relief. He held a life-long grudge against the people who did the means-testing (or more accurately, the system of means-testing itself). .

Perhaps he should have held a grudge against those that made means testing necessary. But I see you didn’t think that far – you claim means testing was done simply to humiliate the people . I guess it never occurred to you that it was done to ensure those that actually needed the aid got it instead of frittering away a limited resource on those that looked at it as an extra source of income while the truly needy did without.

news.yahoo.com/michigan-lottery-winner-charged-welfare-fraud-173600408.html

 

[SamH]

The first is that he didn’t believe the means-tester worked nearly as hard as his mother and therefore had no right to judge her work ethic. .

Yet he felt he could judge the person handing out the aid?

There’s a single word that accurately describes that…

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Agreed, so don’t pretend you know me.

Perhaps he should have held a grudge against those that made means testing necessary. But I see you didn’t think that far – you claim means testing was done simply to humiliate the people . I guess it never occurred to you that it was done to ensure those that actually needed the aid got it instead of frittering it away on those that looked at it as an extra source of income while the truly needy did without.

news.yahoo.com/michigan-lottery-winner-charged-welfare-fraud-173600408.html

And this is the crux of the matter.

People would like to blame the government for overly strict means testing. However, like with a lot of things, a small minority abuse the system and ruin it for everyone else.

I would also argue that the government has an obligation to be good stewards with our money - especially since peple who pays taxes are under threat of penalty and have morally earned that money.