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CMatt25
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As I had already said Ishii, Obama can’t just sit on the sidelines and let the Republicans take the field themselves.
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_Abyssinia
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And what a great vice president Joe Biden is?
I can’t even imagine there is a majority of Democrats who think Joe Biden has been a great vice president.
The Tea Party only started a couple of years ago and that is when people like Herman Cain, Marco Rubio, Allen West etc. who are Tea Party supporters got more popularity, because the spotlight was on the Tea Party and its supporters and they were some of them. And Tea Party members got behind them with funding etc. There are many other Latino and Black Republican candidates and they are not as popular as some of the names mentioned here, but they do exist.
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ishii
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First, Happy Easter.
Interesting comments -
Ishii
Interesting comments -
I was referring to if Allan West ran for Senate - which he could do now that he is a congressman and have a decent chance. After spending some time in the Senate he would be a more serious candidate for Vice president - right now he wouldn’t be a serious candidate. So I don’t know how that could be a gamble - or were you referring to some other scenario?
I wouldn’t lump Palin and Keyes together. Palin was a governor who won an election and had some solid accomplishments. Keyes was a lower level guy in the Reagan admin (I think) and beyond that he was more of a commentator/candidate on the fringe. I agree somewhat with your assessment of Palin, but all her antics came after the 2008 election. I don’t know how many take her seriously today, but in 2008 and shortly after, she was one of the key spokesmen for the GOP, and legitimately so.
For the record, I don’t want West for vice president because I think he’s not ready and would hurt the ticket. I do think that he could be a more effective, qualified candidate in the future. As for the GOP’s minority problem, I would agree that the GOP has to do more to attract minority voters. One of the problems is that the Democrat party so effectively panders to minorities. And the GOP has to counter the very strong and appealing message the Democrats send to minorities - “you are all victims and the GOP is racist - you need to vote for us or your rights will be taken away. The GOP is the party of the angry white male.” That myth is pounded into minorities by the media and culture. Oddly, it is the Democrat party that makes such a big deal out of how many minorities they have elected, but that is a reflection of their belief in quotas and affirmative action - I think a minority member of the GOP means a lot more than the minority in the Democrat party. Furthermore, so many liberals (i.e. Democrats) accuse minorities who have joined the GOP of selling out or being an uncle Tom. The pressure on minorities (esp. blacks) to not join the GOP must be enormous.Once, shame on you. Twice, shame on me.Three times, well, … People are focusing too much on Obama’s race when thinking of nominees. While race is a liability for the GOP, this way of addressing it does not seem likely to address the most glaring discrepancy - dark skinned people, African Americans and south Asians who vote DNC at around 96%. It doesn’t address the overall minority problem: Asians, Hispanics, Jews, Native Americans who vote DNC at 55-80%. It doesn’t address the female problem either. It seems that it will be unlikely to help with the white vote either. All it does it provide a comeback when being accused of racism, one that will convince the choir and make them feel good about themselves but has no history of success with convincing the opposing team.
I disagree - you have to start somewhere. Bobby Jindal first ran for governor in 2003, and then won in 2008 the same year as Obama. The GOP does not need to focus on diversity for diversities’ sake, but rather needs to better communicate to minorities the ideas and principles of the GOP/conservatism and how they apply to all races, and can help all people. Nikki Haley started her political career in 2004. So I wouldn’t say they were “in reaction to Obama”.
I would settle for a qualified candidate who can best help Romney get elected. That would include Rubio, Paul Ryan, and I’m sure a few governors. I honestly like Rubio more for his conservatism and his ability to communicate than for his ethnicity. But being of Cuban ancestry can’t hurt him in Florida. I haven’t heard much clamor for Eric Cantor for vice president but I have heard good things about him.
Ishii
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ishii
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Happy Easter, Abyssinia.And what a great vice president Joe Biden is?
I can’t even imagine there is a majority of Democrats who think Joe Biden has been a great vice president.
The Tea Party only started a couple of years ago and that is when people like Herman Cain, Marco Rubio, Allen West etc. who are Tea Party supporters got more popularity, because the spotlight was on the Tea Party and its supporters and they were some of them. And Tea Party members got behind them with funding etc. There are many other Latino and Black Republican candidates and they are not as popular as some of the names mentioned here, but they do exist.
Biden has been in the Senate a long time, you have to give him that. But that’s about all he has going for him. I agree with your comments - its not fair to say on the one hand, " the GOP needs to have more minority candidates" then when the GOP gets some minorities in office, say, " the GOP needs minorities who have been in office longer."
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_Abyssinia
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Happy Easter Ishii and everybody else!Happy Easter, Abyssinia.
Biden has been in the Senate a long time, you have to give him that. But that’s about all he has going for him. I agree with your comments - its not fair to say on the one hand, " the GOP needs to have more minority candidates" then when the GOP gets some minorities in office, say, " the GOP needs minorities who have been in office longer."
Ishii
What I meant was the fact that Biden had a long senate career, to me, has not translated in being a great vice president.
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HailStarofSea
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Palin and Keyes were picked in the same way and for very similar reasons. Now I am speaking out against the tokenism strategy as I believe it is extremely ineffective. I’m not sure what the purpose of it is since it doesn’t seem to work to win elections.
Do you know what was the intended purpose of choosing Sarah Palin and Alan Keyes to run against Obama in the Senate and for President?The Democrat party does not pander to blacks or other minorities any more than the GOP panders to whites who vote disproportionately GOP. 60% of whites voted GOP in 2010 House elections. 60% of Hispanics voted DNC. cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/polls/#USH00p1 Those numbers are exactly the same but for different parties. The media reports that the GOP is racist. The media also reports that Obama hates whites. Do you choose not to vote for Obama b/c the media reports that he hates whites or because of his position on issues and whether you think he will have a positive or negative effect on your life and the future of this country? That’s how everyone votes.
What does it mean that a minority member of the GOP means more than a minority member in the Democrat party?
The GOP makes a much bigger deal of how many minorities they have elected. Although you can count the number on about two hands, they are so heavily publicized over and above other Republicans that I know pretty much every one by name. On the other hand, there are so many minorities elected in the DNC, that the vast majority of them are not known individually. As for affirmative action, how is that relevant to this thread?Colin Powell was quite popular as a member of the GOP; both he and Condoleeza Rice cried when Obama was elected. It is callous to think the tears shed are coming just from media influence.
Obama has been called an Uncle Tom by Cornel West, the New Black Panther Party, and Ralph Nader so this title is not avoidable by avoiding the GOP. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, with the GOP saying Herman Cain is more ‘authentically black’ than Obama, that Obama has never been part of the black experience, doesn’t have slave blood, is a halfrican, a magic negro, and isn’t the first black president because he has white relatives.
As for the term sellout, isn’t this term thrown around quite frequently in politics and aren’t many politicians accused of being sellouts?
I speak as a pro-life person and in the interest of debt reduction, not as a conservative, as those are the most important issue. GOP desperately needs to appeal to this entire melting pot of society and not just a narrow base if any thing will get done on abortion. Every justice appointed such as Elena Kagan or Sonia Sotomayer reduces the likelihood that Roe v. Wade will ever be overturned. If the GOP does not win in 2012, I do not know they will have another chance in a generation. If the GOP chooses a divisive unpopular and unimportant agenda that causes them to lose the election b/c they are only able to appeal to a small amount of the public, then they share in the responsibility for the destruction of this country’s economy and the death of millions of unborn. There has to be a sense of priorities.
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HailStarofSea
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As for the effect of Obama’s victory on the GOP, it is obvious that the GOP has had an explosion of diversity recently. Interestingly enough, the Wall Street Journal predicted in Nov. 2008 that the effect of Obama’s victory would be to diversify the GOP long-term. online.wsj.com/article/SB122608587402009103.html
It is fair to say that although almost every one of those elected in 2010 had been on the scene - of course they were on the scene, one can’t run for election in a day - they became much much more popular following 2008. Allen West for one doesn’t appear to have been supported in 2008, but in 2010 things changed.
nytimes.com/2010/05/05/us/politics/05blacks.html?hp
It is fair to say that although almost every one of those elected in 2010 had been on the scene - of course they were on the scene, one can’t run for election in a day - they became much much more popular following 2008. Allen West for one doesn’t appear to have been supported in 2008, but in 2010 things changed.
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_Abyssinia
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People like Allan West, Susana Martinez, Marco Rubio gained popularity after vocal support from the Tea Party which got press coverage - it is got nothing to do with Barack Obama’s election.
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ishii
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While I still disagree with some of your other points, the above post by you is so spot on that it deserves repeating. There is much at stake in this election, not the least of which is control of the supreme court - which is why I am so frustrated by people who say “there is no difference between Romney and Obama so I’m voting for neither.”
The GOP will have to appeal to more than just the conservative base come the general election. I still think the challenge for the GOP is not ideology, but rather effectively communicating their message of growth, opportunity and family values to groups that are constantly being told that it is only the Democrat party that offers them a place at the table. The GOP has not been very effective at consistently communicating what they stand for and Americans of all stripes would benefit from their policies. I still maintain that they have to often deal with a press that is hostile to their efforts.
Ishii
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_Abyssinia
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If Republicans in the past have failed it is probably because they wanted to be in the middle to try and appeal to everybody, it does not work.
You do not need to concede conservative principals to appeal to Independents.
Bill Whittle:
youtube.com/watch?v=dFJdAys2kGw
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ishii
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Palin was a gamble that failed, but I don’t blame the McCain campaign for making that gamble I think they (rightly) decided that they had to do something exciting to have a chance to win the election - picking a dull senator or governor wouldn’t have given them a chance against Obama. Palin arguably helped the ticket with her speech at the convention and the days afterward, but obviously she didn’t perform well thereafter. Perhaps she wasn’t vetted enough, but if the Democrats could make history by nominating Obama, why is it wrong for the GOP to make history by nominating a woman? Is there a double standard in which if the Democats nominate a woman or “person of color” its okay, but if the GOP does it, its " tokenism" ?Palin and Keyes were picked in the same way and for very similar reasons. Now I am speaking out against the tokenism strategy as I believe it is extremely ineffective. I’m not sure what the purpose of it is since it doesn’t seem to work to win elections.
But its always the liberal Democrats who are crying “racial discrimination” if a group or organization isn’t “diverse” enough. The Democrat party is the one that makes a big deal out of how many blacks are senators or congressmen, not the GOP. That should answer your above point - they pander all the time.
Liberals are always focussed on what percentage is black in a certain group - they are the ones who make a big deal out of it. And the justice department under Obama has certainly been racially partisan rather than color blind. Have you noticed that Obama took a stand on the Augusta country club policy of not allowing women? That is a good example of what I’m talking about. Historical support in the Democrat party for affirmative action and racial quotas is another example of their focus on race and gender in politics and society rather than qualifications.What does it mean that a minority member of the GOP means more than a minority member in the Democrat party?
Who said that Herman Cain is more authentically “black” than Obama? Radicals may call Obama an Uncle Tom, but I think you’d be hard pressed to make the case that blacks who are Republicans don’t have to endure far worse criticism and much more frequently.Obama has been called an Uncle Tom by Cornel West, the New Black Panther Party, and Ralph Nader so this title is not avoidable by avoiding the GOP. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, with the GOP saying Herman Cain is more ‘authentically black’ than Obama, that Obama has never been part of the black experience, doesn’t have slave blood, is a halfrican, a magic negro, and isn’t the first black president because he has white relatives.
Ishii
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HailStarofSea
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Ishii, do you believe that racial discrimination exists in this country? do you believe that gender discrimination exists in this country?
If so, why or why not?
If so, why or why not?
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HailStarofSea
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Senator McCain was up in national polls over Obama until he said: “The fundamentals of the economy are strong.”
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_Abyssinia
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“Leading the list of Capitol Hill players is freshman Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.), who some GOP insiders believe is a lock for the job if he wants it and can survive the vetting process. Also receiving top-tier mention are House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan (Wis.), who campaigned with Romney in the Badger State leading up to the April 3 primary; Senate Republican Conference Chairman John Thune (S.D.), who considered running for president this year; and freshman Sen. Rob Portman (Ohio), a veteran of the House and the George W. Bush administration. Additional names garnering attention include freshman Sens. Kelly Ayotte (N.H.) and Pat Toomey (Pa.).” - Roll Call
Kelly Ayotte could be a good choice, she has been refuting the Democrats ‘‘war on women’’ nonsense:
nationalreview.com/articles/295527/mitt-s-women-problem-katrina-trinko
Kelly Ayotte could be a good choice, she has been refuting the Democrats ‘‘war on women’’ nonsense:
nationalreview.com/articles/295527/mitt-s-women-problem-katrina-trinko
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ishii
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_Abyssinia
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ishii
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I think that is the right decision. She has a bright political future (if she wants it), which could include higher office. She is only 53 so she could run for president after 8 years of Romney.
Or after 4 years of Obama.
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_Abyssinia
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After 8 years of President Romney she could be a great candidate.I think that is the right decision. She has a bright political future (if she wants it), which could include higher office. She is only 53 so she could run for president after 8 years of Romney.
Or after 4 years of Obama.
Ishii
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Scott_Lafrance
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After 8 years of Romney, I would be a great candidate.After 8 years of President Romney she could be a great candidate.
After 3.5 years of Obama, Sedes Vacans would have been a better option.
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ishii
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" I’d rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University." - William F. BuckleyAfter 8 years of Romney, I would be a great candidate.
Ishii
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