Ruling in Italy about Crosses displaying in classrooms

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Yellow_Belle said:
The European Convention on Human Rights apparently disagrees with you on what constitutes a human right. The petitioner had already been through the Italian courts and found no remedy. She took the case to the European Court of Human Rights and the Court took the case because Italy is a signatory of the Convention on Human Rights.

I think there are now 4 threads on this topic on CAF: is this a record?
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Well, she found no remedy through the Italian courts because they have the common sense to see that it isn’t a human rights issue.
 
ralphinal said:
Oh, I know about that. Two European agendas drew us into two World Wars and a third landed us in Veit Nam
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Yeah, the attack on Pearl Harbour was all about Europe. And you can’t say the French didn’t warn you about Vietnam.
 
Kaninchen said:
You can’t see why a Jew would prefer that their children were not faced by a crucifix every day?
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No I can’t as I hardly think it would cause harm (whether psychological, emotional or physical). Furthermore, there are crucifixes at my school where I work, but our principal is Jewish (and it’s a public school), I don’t see her asking us to pull it down (maybe because the majority of students are Christian, who knows, it’s a wild guess though :rolleyes:)

p.s. There’s even a picture of the Vatican in my school. :eek:
 
Yellow_Belle said:
Yeah, the attack on Pearl Harbour was all about Europe. And you can’t say the French didn’t warn you about Vietnam.
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Pearl Harbor was known to be on the way. The President allowed it to happen to get us into the war. Had Germany not had the old European understanding of a treaty, they would have let Japan face us alone, and now all of Europe would be Nazi.

The French were the only reason we were there. Had they not been trying to hold on to superpower status using colonialism, no one would have cared about Veitnam. We would not have been there at all.
 
josie_L said:
Well, she found no remedy through the Italian courts because they have the common sense to see that it isn’t a human rights issue.
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You keep harping on about this not being a human rights issue. Exactly what part of European Court of Human Rights and European Convention on Human Rights don’t you understand? Or are you being deliberately obtuse?
 
ralphinal said:
Oh, I know about that. Two European agendas drew us into two World Wars and a third landed us in Veit Nam
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You know, I’ve spent my life being very pro-American, in circumstances where being pro-American has not been exactly a popular position to take. I do have to say, though, that there comes a time where America The Savior gets a bit tired as an argument as to why Europeans should endlessly do what we’re told.
 
josie_L said:
No I can’t as I hardly think it would cause harm (whether psychological, emotional or physical). Furthermore, there are crucifixes at my school where I work, but our principal is Jewish (and it’s a public school), I don’t see her asking us to pull it down (maybe because the majority of students are Christian, who knows, it’s a wild guess though :rolleyes:)

p.s. There’s even a picture of the Vatican in my school. :eek:
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Does she send her children to the school?

Endlessly rolling your eyes will end up giving you a headache.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
No, just in Italian state schools. Do they allow crucifixes in state schools in the US?
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I’m Canadian and I work in (a mostly Christian) public school, there are some crucifixes hanging in the classrooms and we have a Jewish principal (I guess she’s more tolerant than the woman who filed a class action suit).
 
Kaninchen said:
You know, I’ve spent my life being very pro-American, in circumstances where being pro-American has not been exactly a popular position to take. I do have to say, though, that there comes a time where America The Savior gets a bit tired as an argument as to why Europeans should endlessly do what we’re told.
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:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

I will quit using it when the next big threat to the world comes up and the French save us all 👍

And I do not think that American thought to have any say over Europe because of this. I just think that the attitude that some Europeans seem to have that the world would be better off had we never broken from England is false
 
ralphinal said:
:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

I will quit using it when the next big threat to the world comes up and the French save us all 👍

And I do not think that American thought to have any say over Europe because of this. I just think that the attitude that some Europeans seem to have that the world would be better off had we never broken from England is false
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Well, if all this ‘doing what we’re told’ carries on then we’re going to start demanding representation in the decision-making, all 450 million of us.
 
ralphinal said:
Pearl Harbor was known to be on the way. The President allowed it to happen to get us into the war. Had Germany not had the old European understanding of a treaty, they would have let Japan face us alone, and now all of Europe would be Nazi. The US didn’t seem to have any problem leaving the UK to face Germany alone, despite the much vaunted ‘special relationship’. But that doesn’t seem to fit too well with your conspiracy theory about Roosevelt and Pearl Harbour

The French were the only reason we were there. Had they not been trying to hold on to superpower status using colonialism, no one would have cared about Veitnam. We would not have been there at all. Funny then that during the Vietnam war the constant American government line was that the war was essentially a conflict of Vietnamese against Vietnamese, in which Americans became ‘involved’, mistakenly and honourably. Someone in your government clearly ‘cared about Vietnam’.
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Yellow_Belle said:
Originally Posted by ralphinal View Post
Pearl Harbor was known to be on the way. The President allowed it to happen to get us into the war. Had Germany not had the old European understanding of a treaty, they would have let Japan face us alone, and now all of Europe would be Nazi. The US didn’t seem to have any problem leaving the UK to face Germany alone, despite the much vaunted ‘special relationship’. But that doesn’t seem to fit too well with your conspiracy theory about Roosevelt and Pearl Harbour

The French were the only reason we were there. Had they not been trying to hold on to superpower status using colonialism, no one would have cared about Veitnam. We would not have been there at all. Funny then that during the Vietnam war the constant American government line was that the war was essentially a conflict of Vietnamese against Vietnamese, in which Americans became ‘involved’, mistakenly and honourably. Someone in your government clearly ‘cared about Vietnam’.
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At that time, America was very isolationist. In fact, the only reason we were in WWI was the Lucitania incident. The American people would NOT have been in favor of a war unless we had been attacked. It was how we saw the world (and many still do). The leaders of the USA, however, saw the need and wanted to enter the war. Pearl Harbor was perfect for that.

Read Henry Kissenger’s book Diplomacy.
 
josie_L said:
No, it’s a state school (i.e., public school).
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Must be a something about Italy and Canada then.

I wouldn’t have wanted my daughters having to face a crucifix every day. Perhaps you might ask your Jewish principal whether she understands why most Jews wouldn’t?
 
Kaninchen said:
Well, if all this ‘doing what we’re told’ carries on then we’re going to start demanding representation in the decision-making, all 450 million of us.
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It has been said that is one reason for the EU. It creates a unified European Front in world affairs. It has not worked that way
 
Oh, I’m an ‘equal opportunities’ opponent of religious symbolism in non-religious state schools (and a strong proponent of religiously affiliated state schools, by the way). I think the Italian situation is ridiculous and a failure to come to terms with the consequences of the Catholic religion ceasing to be the ‘state religion’ - state schools with a pretense of religiosity rather than having some schools with religious affiliation and some without.
 
Kaninchen said:
Must be a something about Italy and Canada then.

I wouldn’t have wanted my daughters having to face a crucifix every day. Perhaps you might ask your Jewish principal whether she understands why most Jews wouldn’t?
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Can you be more explicit as to why most Jews wouldn’t (if the majority of students let us say were Christian)?

p.s. They wouldn’t be facing the crucifix as I’m sure it is affixed pretty high above their heads to begin with.
 
ralphinal said:
It has been said that is one reason for the EU. It creates a unified European Front in world affairs. It has not worked that way
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It’s not been tried that way and won’t be for a very long time, if ever. The enormous success of the EU has been to stop all the old civil wars between member nations - basically make them impossible - and get us working together in various fields.

Whether it goes much further will really, I’d suggest, depend on what happens elsewhere. For example, if the US were to seriously decline in power relative to China, India and so forth.
 
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