Ruling in Italy about Crosses displaying in classrooms

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josie_L said:
Can you be more explicit as to why most Jews wouldn’t (if the majority of students let us say were Christian)?
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Does it really take all that imagination to understand? The whole ‘passion’ story’ in somebody else’s holy book, the whole history of Jews in Europe?
 
Kaninchen said:
Must be a something about Italy and Canada then.

I wouldn’t have wanted my daughters having to face a crucifix every day. Perhaps you might ask your Jewish principal whether she understands why most Jews wouldn’t?
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Look, i can understand you not wanting your daughter to see a crucifix on a daily basis considering your Jewish, but, this is Italy we are talking about, the home of Catholicism.
The last time i looked about 99% of the population was Catholic, hence why i started this thread, as i do agree the crucifix should be in EVERY Italian school, been 99% Catholic.
Also, ill bring up the fact that the Catholic church saved about 85% of Jews in Italy from the Germans in WW2, is it then so bad tha probably 99% of each class has Catholic children in them should not be able to see the cross and the other 1% admire the religion and also be reminded of the religion who saved them?
 
Kaninchen said:
Does it really take all that imagination to understand? The whole ‘passion’ story’ in somebody else’s holy book, the whole history of Jews in Europe?
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No, I just wanted to “hear” you say it.
 
I think that if people choose to send their children to a school affiliated to another religion (Muslims who think a Catholic School would be a good moral environment, for example) then they are tacitly agreeing to put up with the iconography.
 
ralphinal said:
At that time, America was very isolationist. In fact, the only reason we were in WWI was the Lucitania incident. The American people would NOT have been in favor of a war unless we had been attacked. It was how we saw the world (and many still do). The leaders of the USA, however, saw the need and wanted to enter the war. Pearl Harbor was perfect for that.So, opportunistic rather than contrived?

Read Henry Kissenger’s book Diplomacy.I did, back in1994. Fascinating, but very limited by Kissinger’s inability to see or evaluate a perspective other than an American one.
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dolphinlove said:
Look, i can understand you not wanting your daughter to see a crucifix on a daily basis considering your Jewish, but, this is Italy we are talking about, the home of Catholicism.
The last time i looked about 99% of the population was Catholic, hence why i started this thread, as i do agree the crucifix should be in EVERY Italian school, been 99% Catholic.
Also, ill bring up the fact that the Catholic church saved about 85% of Jews in Italy from the Germans in WW2, is it then so bad tha probably 99% of each class has Catholic children in them should not be able to see the cross and the other 1% admire the religion and also be reminded of the religion who saved them?
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I’m not getting into a discussion about the Shoah here other than to say that you’re ascribing to the Church many things that are really about Italians being, well, Italians and not Germans or French or anything else. I’m half-Italian and a strong Italophile.

Have you ever been to Italy? If you have you’ll know but may have forgotten, if you haven’t then let me tell you something, Italy is absolutely full of Catholic symbolism, if they sold most of it, Italy would still be absolutely full of Catholic symbolism. They don’t need crucifixes in schools to be reminded of the history of the Catholic Church in Italy.
 
I was just thinking the same thing about how littered Ireland is with religious symbols. In fact one cannot say ‘Hello’ in Irish without invoking God and the Blessed Virgin:) An old professor I knew used to say that the Irish were Italians in the wrong climate 😃
 
There’s lots of them but my favorites are in the ‘Città vecchia’ (old town part of most towns and cities) many of which are wonderfully ornate and pretentious in that absolutely stellar level of pretentiousness in which Italy leads the world.
 
Kaninchen said:
There’s lots of them but my favorites are in the ‘Città vecchia’ (old town part of most towns and cities) many of which are wonderfully ornate and pretentious in that absolutely stellar level of pretentiousness in which Italy leads the world.
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😃
 
Well, we do seem to be genetically related to the Basques…
 
This is about a tiny minority imposing its secular religious convictions to a majority.
 
Kaninchen said:
It’s frivolous from your point of view, from mine it’s not frivolous at all. I certainly wouldn’t have wanted my daughters sitting in a classroom with a crucifix hanging over them.
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its amazing that these crosses are not noticed when enrolling the children, or the parents dont make inquiries about them, and once enrolled make all the fuss.

Hypocrites is all I can say.

There are others who take refuge in countries because of harassment in their own countries and once given the citizenship, bring out all theses problems in their newly adopted countries, and we Christians like fools simply bow our heads to them.
 
Kaninchen said:
It’s frivolous from your point of view, from mine it’s not frivolous at all. I certainly wouldn’t have wanted my daughters sitting in a classroom with a crucifix hanging over them.
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its amazing that these crosses are not noticed when enrolling the children, or the parents dont make inquiries about them, and once enrolled make all the fuss.

Hypocrites is all I can say.
 
AdrianP said:
This is about a tiny minority imposing its secular religious convictions to a majority.
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That’s exactly what it is.

This could have effects in schools across Europe. Much of the state controlled and run European schools and universities were set up, built, financed and run by Christians.

Now we have an ideology such as secular humanism, that is incapable of creating a community, lobbying to destroy someone’s else’s community and trying to push religion into the private sphere where they can then claim it doesn’t mean very much and has added nothing to society (except wars and repression and all the other secular humanistic fairy tales).

This is nothing less than secular humanistic totalitarinism. They haven’t got the numbers or community so they change a law here and a law there and then start to interpret things this way and that, and before you know it - Do everything our way, it’s the law !

Same thing hapens in the US with the ‘separation of Church and State’, that is not even in the constitution, which has been ‘interpreted in’ by unelected judges and then used as a spring board to support all kinds of anti-religious agendas across the country.

It is a very dangerous thing when large numbers of your own people suddenly have no confidence in the rule of law. That’s the direction secular humanism is pushing us with their infiltration of unelected judicial bodies.

I’d like to see Italians withdraw any signatories that give this body powers over their own law.
 
wwolverine said:
its amazing that these crosses are not noticed when enrolling the children, or the parents dont make inquiries about them, and once enrolled make all the fuss.
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These are state schools we’re talking about and the only alternative would be private education since crucifixes are compulsory. We’re not talking about ‘Catholic Schools’ like the state-funded Catholic Schools (and other religiously-affiliated schools) in the UK, for example.
Hypocrites is all I can say.
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You’re sure that there wouldn’t be American parents making a fuss if crucifixes were compulsory in all publicly-funded schools (or, in your case, religious iconography that you didn’t personally approve of)? It’s hypocrisy to demand of others that which you wouldn’t demand of yourself.

You may respond that there’s no state religion in the US, well there’s no state religion in Italy either.
There are others who take refuge in countries because of harassment in their own countries and once given the citizenship, bring out all theses problems in their newly adopted countries, and we Christians like fools simply bow our heads to them.
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That’s just a rant.
 
abucs said:
That’s exactly what it is.

This could have effects in schools across Europe. Much of the state controlled and run European schools and universities were set up, built, financed and run by Christians.

Now we have an ideology such as secular humanism, that is incapable of creating a community, lobbying to destroy someone’s else’s community and trying to push religion into the private sphere where they can then claim it doesn’t mean very much and has added nothing to society (except wars and repression and all the other secular humanistic fairy tales).

This is nothing less than secular humanistic totalitarinism. They haven’t got the numbers or community so they change a law here and a law there and then start to interpret things this way and that, and before you know it - Do everything our way, it’s the law !

Same thing hapens in the US with the ‘separation of Church and State’, that is not even in the constitution, which has been ‘interpreted in’ by unelected judges and then used as a spring board to support all kinds of anti-religious agendas across the country.

It is a very dangerous thing when large numbers of your own people suddenly have no confidence in the rule of law. That’s the direction secular humanism is pushing us with their infiltration of unelected judicial bodies.

I’d like to see Italians withdraw any signatories that give this body powers over their own law.
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I’m sure there’s some clichés you missed there, not many but some, nevertheless.
 
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