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estesbob
Guest
Who showed disrespect and hate for those who engage in homosexual behavior?
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S
shocktrooper
Guest
aroosi,
All people deserve love and respect due to the intrinsic value of their dignity rooted in God Himself, but to suggest that disordered public behavior is good and should not be outlawed is to suggest that we stop loving both the perpetrator and those that can be scandalized or drawn into the sin.
This goes back to our lack of understanding of what LOVE is.
I do agree that laws can be used with ill intentions but there is nothing here to suggest this will happen or that the law itself would be wrong if abuses did occur.
B
Brendan_64
Guest
I think this is a very wrong thing to do, particularly in a country such as Russia where there is a huge degree of prejudice and discrimination against homosexual men.
I watched a documentary recently where a young man in Russia was beaten to death by his ‘friends’ for allegedly admitting that he was a homosexual. The disturbing thing was that the theory is that he wasn’t homosexual, but that his ‘friends’ who beat him to death said that the young man had admitted he was homosexual, because they would be treated more leniently because of this reason. Interviews of other local people revealed that a lot of them seemed to think it was an acceptable act if the young man had indeed been a homosexual, but a dreadful thing to have done if he wasn’t actually homosexual.
Making homosexuality against the law will only serve to foster an already prevalent attitude that it is somehow OK to discriminate against, attack, and even kill homosexual men.
A
aroosi
Guest
In Russia homophobia is rising, you can easily do a google search to see for yourself reports of beating and killing of homosexuals. It’s not uncommon in history that governments try to find a scapegoat and a common enemy in times of challenge. I think this sudden interest of the Russian government in anti-gay law (homosexual acts are decriminalized in Russia since 1993) is a political move. First the ban of US adoptions, now the anti-gay laws… Doesn’t this ring a bell?
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estesbob
Guest
The law doesn’t make homosexual behavior illegal
E
estesbob
Guest
And what is homophobia? I believe homosexual behavior is a grievous sin and puts one immortal soul in danger. I believe no rights accrue from sodomy. Do you consider me homophobic?
A
aroosi
Guest
@estesbob
“Love the sinner, hate the sin”.
I am Catholic and I think that homosexuality is a grave sin but if anybody hurts, bullies or discriminates my gay brother/sister I really can’t accept it.
“Love the sinner, hate the sin”.
I am Catholic and I think that homosexuality is a grave sin but if anybody hurts, bullies or discriminates my gay brother/sister I really can’t accept it.
B
Brendan_64
Guest
Russia would be better off working to promote compassion and respect for people of a homosexual persuasion. Russia has a very serious problem of huge discrimination against homosexuals, to the extent that many Russians actually think it is OK to beat up and even kill homosexuals. This law just serves to reinforce such attitudes.
When people are struggling economically, give them a group of people to hate and vilify. It’s a strategy tried and tested by many regimes and governments.
B
Brendan_64
Guest
We are called by Christ to protect and support any person or groups of people who are discriminated against, rejected and mistreated. We do not say, “You are a sinner, we will have nothing to do with the likes of you”.
Give help, support, compassion and understanding in the hope that our example and actions will awaken something within. This model of behaviour, by 2 particular Christians, turned me away from paganism and led me back to the Church.
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shocktrooper
Guest
So should we take this attitude with those that commit other crimes? Theft? Murder? Rape?
We are called by Christ to protect and support any person or groups of people who are discriminated against, rejected and mistreated. We do not say, “You are a sinner, we will have nothing to do with the likes of you”.
Give help, support, compassion and understanding in the hope that our example and actions will awaken something within. This model of behaviour, by 2 particular Christians, turned me away from paganism and led me back to the Church.
There are laws in Russia that punish those that murder. The best way to deal with vigilantes is to enforce the law and punish them accordingly. This acts as a deterrent to others.
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aroosi
Guest
Homosexual relationships are mostly between consenting adults. Murder, rape etc. are not.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
:newidea:
nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders
The incidence of Murder by country is highest in…
Turkey
Ukraine
Belarus
Romania
Italy
France
Where do you get your statistics?
C
CopticChristian
Guest
When considering Homosexuality and murder then these laws will protect Homosexuals from themselves…
freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1502263/posts
freerepublic.com/focus/fr/893184/posts
The incidence and rape and Murder attributable to Homosexuals should fall with this law…
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shocktrooper
Guest
Those numbers are pretty scary. If true, it is no wonder you don’t hear them often. They are very damaging to the homosexual agenda.
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Shin
Guest
Exactly so. It is not victimless, this behavior.
And the world’s mainstream media, the devil’s servant in this is heartily promoting that these people are always the victims, not the perpetrators of crimes.
It’s propaganda when they do this. Not news.
Meant to promote their cause. It’s a standard practice.
One should not be deceived by it. And aiding that propaganda is not moral.
And the world’s mainstream media, the devil’s servant in this is heartily promoting that these people are always the victims, not the perpetrators of crimes.
It’s propaganda when they do this. Not news.
Meant to promote their cause. It’s a standard practice.
One should not be deceived by it. And aiding that propaganda is not moral.
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estesbob
Guest
I haven’t seen anyone promoting hurting or bullying homosexuals. But even the church supports “discriminating” against homosexuals in matters of marriage and adoption
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aroosi
Guest
As Catholics we can promote and defend our vision for the society (protection of life from conception to death, indissolubility of marriage, respect of the natural law etc.) and hope that other people will understand the beauty of our Faith in Christ and share with us the hope for eternal life. I wish many of my friends would have the grace to experience all of this but I can’t force it on them. I live in an environment with very few Catholics and many people embracing ways of life sometimes hard to understand. Once in a while we discuss our different beliefs but I found out that the only thing I can really do is pray for them and love them because they too are made at image of God and are precious in His eyes. I wish God in His Mercy will bring us together for eternity.
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Deo_Volente
Guest
Grace & Peace!
Our Ideal State doesn’t know anything of state-sanctioned death squads or black sites, it knows nothing of cops on the take or government corruption, it has no experience of mercenary politicians or political assassinations, and the idea that some people and their legitimate grievances may be conveniently consigned to oblivion in the slow-grinding gears of some local police administrative bureaucracy is anathema to it. No blind eyes are turned to injustice in the Abstract State of Our Dreams! But such a state doesn’t actually exist. We live in the real world, and history shows us that the state is often complicit in crime. Indeed, history shows us that the geo-political landscape is occupied not with states interested in “the best way,” but in states which are more or less given over to the Spenglerian exigencies of realpolitik
Just because a moral-sounding law is passed does not mean that the immoral government that passed it will safeguard it against abuse. There is no guarantee that such a law’s implementation (at all levels of government) will proceed without any offence to justice or without any human cost. Indeed, if history is any teacher, we can expect such a law to be abused. When a state begins to concern itself with passing laws to ensure moral sexual purity, you can be sure that there is a greater political agenda at work which is concerned less with moral sexual purity and more with an ideological or nationalist purity: the foreign other, the religious other, the sexual other, the ideological other, will ultimately all be legislated against. Just watch. You can see it happening.
The recent incident in Georgia in which Orthodox priests led and participated in violence against about 50 “gay rights” demonstrators who were otherwise peacefully demonstrating is telling (see nytimes.com/2013/05/18/world/europe/gay-rights-rally-is-attacked-in-georgia.html). The rhetoric of the attackers clearly confuses national identity/politics with religious orthodoxy. Granted, Georgia is not Russia, but you will see more of this sort of religio-political violence in both Georgia and Russia in the wake of these sorts of laws.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
Indeed, the best way for a state to deal with vigilantes is to enforce the law. And in the Abstract States of Our Dreams, all laws are reasonably enforced, peace is kept, justice is done and everybody goes to bed safe and sound.
Our Ideal State doesn’t know anything of state-sanctioned death squads or black sites, it knows nothing of cops on the take or government corruption, it has no experience of mercenary politicians or political assassinations, and the idea that some people and their legitimate grievances may be conveniently consigned to oblivion in the slow-grinding gears of some local police administrative bureaucracy is anathema to it. No blind eyes are turned to injustice in the Abstract State of Our Dreams! But such a state doesn’t actually exist. We live in the real world, and history shows us that the state is often complicit in crime. Indeed, history shows us that the geo-political landscape is occupied not with states interested in “the best way,” but in states which are more or less given over to the Spenglerian exigencies of realpolitik
Just because a moral-sounding law is passed does not mean that the immoral government that passed it will safeguard it against abuse. There is no guarantee that such a law’s implementation (at all levels of government) will proceed without any offence to justice or without any human cost. Indeed, if history is any teacher, we can expect such a law to be abused. When a state begins to concern itself with passing laws to ensure moral sexual purity, you can be sure that there is a greater political agenda at work which is concerned less with moral sexual purity and more with an ideological or nationalist purity: the foreign other, the religious other, the sexual other, the ideological other, will ultimately all be legislated against. Just watch. You can see it happening.
The recent incident in Georgia in which Orthodox priests led and participated in violence against about 50 “gay rights” demonstrators who were otherwise peacefully demonstrating is telling (see nytimes.com/2013/05/18/world/europe/gay-rights-rally-is-attacked-in-georgia.html). The rhetoric of the attackers clearly confuses national identity/politics with religious orthodoxy. Granted, Georgia is not Russia, but you will see more of this sort of religio-political violence in both Georgia and Russia in the wake of these sorts of laws.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
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Slavonic
Guest
Supporters here should be thrilled.
news.yahoo.com/russian-anti-gay-bill-passes-protesters-detained-145841244.html
Such moral and upstanding with good traditional family values…
(from the article, emphasis mine)
news.yahoo.com/russian-anti-gay-bill-passes-protesters-detained-145841244.html
Such moral and upstanding with good traditional family values…
(from the article, emphasis mine)
Does anyone want to be even mildly associated with such people?
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