Russia- set to pass anti-gay law

[andrewstx]

Ok, so what? So you think this is his way of getting even? The Russian people don’t want that filth in their streets? So what? So what? this has nothing to do with the topic and plus Holy St. Nicolai’s nephew was not a homosexual

Sorry that is not what I read. Just being the nephew of a Saint does not automatically make him a Saint.

My source is Nicholas and Alexandra the book, not the film.

 

[CopticChristian]

Sorry that is not what I read. Just being the nephew of a Saint does not automatically make him a Saint.

My source is Nicholas and Alexandra the book, not the film.

Andrew,

The Russian Orthodox have proclaimed Nicoai a Saint and whatever negative is written after is slander. He and his family were murdered. Whatever speculation as to what the circumstances are help what? What is the exact title and who is the author of your book?

 

[edwest2]

This is not what gay rights is about. Do you really think that homosexuality is all about lust? It’s much deeper than just sex. I guess you’re free to reduce it to something more bite sized and easy to deal with but keep in mind you are not talking about reality.

Issue number one is gay marriage.

Ed

 

[Brendan_64]

If only we could do what Lithuania did and ban what the Church defines as “unjust discrimination” against homosexuals while banning same-sex marriage, adoption, and open promotion of homosexuality.

Maybe that’d be a good model for Russia to follow. Then everyone is a winner. It wouldn’t work here in the States because of the Constitution but Europe has a different perspective on human rights than the states.

That would indeed be a much better model for Russia to follow, but sadly the Russian administration does not seem that bothered about tackling the rampant homophobia that exists in Russia, but is instead using this homophobia to gain increase its popularity through introducing laws that play on this.

The fact that people arrested on suspicion of murder will attempt to mitigate their crime through claiming that they did it because the victim was homosexual, and that a section of the public think that this is a fair enough reason to kill someone and are happy to say so, says a lot really.

Putin isn’t interested in creating a moral society, he’s just out to gain more public support through appealing to the lowest common denominator and making political capital out of prejudices, regardless of the costs. I’ll predict that alongside his anti-homosexual legislation there will be absolutely no attempt to try to tackle the extreme homophobia that exists in Russia. As far as Putin is concerned there would be no political capital to be gained from that at all, quite the contrary.

I wonder if Putin is interested in tackling the issue of abortion in Russia? Russia has the highest level of abortion per women of child-bearing age in the entire world. More children are aborted than born in Russia, where there are 13 children aborted for every 10 children born. But then again abortion is widely accepted amongst the Russian population, so there’s no political capital in tackling that moral issue.

This law has nothing to do with morality, and everything to do with capitalising on people’s prejudices to make political capital.

 

[sw85]

Putin may or may not be a creep (I know next to nothing about the man or Russian culture generally) but it doesn’t follow that this law is a bad thing.

On the contrary, if Russia has other bad laws, the solution is for it to also repeal bad laws, not to refrain from passing good ones.

 

[aroosi]

This law has nothing to do with morality, and everything to do with capitalising on people’s prejudices to make political capital.

 

[fix]

Putin may or may not be a creep (I know next to nothing about the man or Russian culture generally) but it doesn’t follow that this law is a bad thing.

On the contrary, if Russia has other bad laws, the solution is for it to also repeal bad laws, not to refrain from passing good ones.

That’s right.

 

[estesbob]

That would indeed be a much better model for Russia to follow, but sadly the Russian administration does not seem that bothered about tackling the rampant homophobia that exists in Russia, but is instead using this homophobia to gain increase its popularity through introducing laws that play on this.

The fact that people arrested on suspicion of murder will attempt to mitigate their crime through claiming that they did it because the victim was homosexual, and that a section of the public think that this is a fair enough reason to kill someone and are happy to say so, says a lot really.

Putin isn’t interested in creating a moral society, he’s just out to gain more public support through appealing to the lowest common denominator and making political capital out of prejudices, regardless of the costs. I’ll predict that alongside his anti-homosexual legislation there will be absolutely no attempt to try to tackle the extreme homophobia that exists in Russia. As far as Putin is concerned there would be no political capital to be gained from that at all, quite the contrary.

I wonder if Putin is interested in tackling the issue of abortion in Russia? Russia has the highest level of abortion per women of child-bearing age in the entire world. More children are aborted than born in Russia, where there are 13 children aborted for every 10 children born. But then again abortion is widely accepted amongst the Russian population, so there’s no political capital in tackling that moral issue.

This law has nothing to do with morality, and everything to do with capitalising on people’s prejudices to make political capital.

So do you include our Church as among those who are prejudiced? There is nothing in this law that is contrary to Church teaching.

 

[Brendan_64]

So do you include our Church as among those who are prejudiced?

Did I say that? No I didn’t

There is nothing in this law that is contrary to Church teaching.

However homophobia is rife in Russia, as is abortion. Do you think that serious efforts to curb the horrendous levels of abortion in Russia would meet with such popular support?

 

[estesbob]

Did I say that? No I didn’t

However homophobia is rife in Russia, as is abortion. Do you think that serious efforts to curb the horrendous levels of abortion in Russia would meet with such popular support?

So they cant address one moral problem without addressing all of them.

And again just what is your definition of homophobia? Does supporting the churches teaching on homosexuality make one homophobic? Does believing homosexual behavior is deviant and should never be promoted or affirmed in any way make one homophobic?

 

[Brendan_64]

So they cant address one moral problem without addressing all of them.

And Putin is doing this out of his urge to address a moral issue?

And again just what is your definition of homophobia? Does supporting the churches teaching on homosexuality make one homophobic?

Absolutely not. The Church calls that homosexuals “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided” (CCC 2358).

Do you think that Putin is considering how he can foster a culture of respect, compassion, and sensitivity towards homosexuals?

How much respect, compassion and sensitivity do you think there is, amongst the Russian populace, for homosexuals?

 

[fix]

1. “It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.

But the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase” (no. 10)CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

 

[kozlosap]

That would indeed be a much better model for Russia to follow, but sadly the Russian administration does not seem that bothered about tackling the rampant homophobia that exists in Russia, but is instead using this homophobia to gain increase its popularity through introducing laws that play on this.

The fact that people arrested on suspicion of murder will attempt to mitigate their crime through claiming that they did it because the victim was homosexual, and that a section of the public think that this is a fair enough reason to kill someone and are happy to say so, says a lot really.

Putin isn’t interested in creating a moral society, he’s just out to gain more public support through appealing to the lowest common denominator and making political capital out of prejudices, regardless of the costs. I’ll predict that alongside his anti-homosexual legislation there will be absolutely no attempt to try to tackle the extreme homophobia that exists in Russia. As far as Putin is concerned there would be no political capital to be gained from that at all, quite the contrary.

I wonder if Putin is interested in tackling the issue of abortion in Russia? Russia has the highest level of abortion per women of child-bearing age in the entire world. More children are aborted than born in Russia, where there are 13 children aborted for every 10 children born. But then again abortion is widely accepted amongst the Russian population, so there’s no political capital in tackling that moral issue.

This law has nothing to do with morality, and everything to do with capitalising on people’s prejudices to make political capital.

Maybe Putin has been reading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich and came upon the new laws passed in the mid 1930s in Germany. Of course, in this case gypsies and handicapped individuals would be next on the list. This entire concept is beyond words.

 

[estesbob]

Maybe Putin has been reading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich and came upon the new laws passed in the mid 1930s in Germany. Of course, in this case gypsies and handicapped individuals would be next on the list. This entire concept is beyond words.

And what laws were those?

 

[Brendan_64]

And what laws were those?

Those laws would be:

The “Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring”. Which resulted in enforced sterilisation of Gypsies, as well as anyone who suffered from congenital Mental Deficiency,Schizophrenia, Manic-Depression, Hereditary Epilepsy, Huntingdon’s Disease, Hereditary Blindness, Hereditary Deafness, Alcholism

The “Law against Dangerous Habitual Criminals”. Which resulted in the imprisonment in concentration camps of prostitutes, beggars, alcoholics, the ‘work-shy’, the homeless, and those with a travelling lifestyle (i.e. Gypsies).

Both laws came into force in 1933.

And that was before the Nazis got stuck into the Jews.

How anyone can have even the remotest glimmer of respect or sympathy for anything that the Nazis believed (and I have met people who do) is beyond me.

 

[CopticChristian]

Did I say that? No I didn’t

However homophobia is rife in Russia, as is abortion. Do you think that serious efforts to curb the horrendous levels of abortion in Russia would meet with such popular support?

However homophobia is rife in Russia,

Show me with example when you know that someone is homophobic, when you read something that someone is homphobic. Define homophobia.

 

[CopticChristian]

And Putin is doing this out of his urge to address a moral issue?

Absolutely not. The Church calls that homosexuals “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided” (CCC 2358).

Do you think that Putin is considering how he can foster a culture of respect, compassion, and sensitivity towards homosexuals?

How much respect, compassion and sensitivity do you think there is, amongst the Russian populace, for homosexuals?

You failed to define Homophobia…

Hagiophobia- Fear of saints or holy things.
Hamartophobia- Fear of sinning.
Haphephobia or Haptephobia- Fear of being touched.
Harpaxophobia- Fear of being robbed.
Hedonophobia- Fear of feeling pleasure.
Heliophobia- Fear of the sun.
Hellenologophobia- Fear of Greek terms or complex scientific terminology.
Helminthophobia- Fear of being infested with worms.
Hemophobia or Hemaphobia or Hematophobia- Fear of blood.
Heresyphobia or Hereiophobia- Fear of challenges to official doctrine or of radical deviation.
Herpetophobia- Fear of reptiles or creepy, crawly things.
Heterophobia- Fear of the opposite sex. (Sexophobia)
Hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia- Fear of the number 666.
Hierophobia- Fear of priests or sacred things.
Hippophobia- Fear of horses.
Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia- Fear of long words.
Hobophobia- Fear of bums or beggars.
Hodophobia- Fear of road travel.
Hormephobia- Fear of shock.
Homichlophobia- Fear of fog.
Homilophobia- Fear of sermons.
Hominophobia- Fear of men.
Homophobia- Fear of sameness,

define Homophobia and where you see it in writing or speech.

 

[CopticChristian]

Those laws would be:

The “Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring”. Which resulted in enforced sterilisation of Gypsies, as well as anyone who suffered from congenital Mental Deficiency,Schizophrenia, Manic-Depression, Hereditary Epilepsy, Huntingdon’s Disease, Hereditary Blindness, Hereditary Deafness, Alcholism

The “Law against Dangerous Habitual Criminals”. Which resulted in the imprisonment in concentration camps of prostitutes, beggars, alcoholics, the ‘work-shy’, the homeless, and those with a travelling lifestyle (i.e. Gypsies).

Both laws came into force in 1933.

And that was before the Nazis got stuck into the Jews.

How anyone can have even the remotest glimmer of respect or sympathy for anything that the Nazis believed (and I have met people who do) is beyond me.

I lose respect for claims that people are homophobic without defining homophobia and where it is seen in writing or speech.

 

[Brendan_64]

Show me with example when you know that someone is homophobic, when you read something that someone is homphobic. Define homophobia.

Homophobia is a hatred or fear of homosexuals.

As for an example, here’s one for you.

rt.com/news/man-killed-homophobia-russia-198/

I lose respect for claims that people are homophobic without defining homophobia and where it is seen in writing or speech.

And I lose respect for people who try to imply that there is actually no such thing as homophobia.

 

[CopticChristian]

Homophobia is a hatred or fear of homosexuals.

As for an example, here’s one for you.

rt.com/news/man-killed-homophobia-russia-198/

And I lose respect for people who try to imply that there is actually no such thing as homophobia.

The naked body of the deceased 23-year-old man was discovered in the courtyard of an apartment building in Volgograd on May 10, the day after Russia celebrated Victory Day, which commemorates the end of World War II.

According to one of the suspects, the victim came out as a homosexual to his friends while they were drinking beer on a bench outside. His friends reportedly decided to taunt him by making him walk home naked, and began ripping off his clothes. “When they were done, the men decided not to stop there,” Gapchenko said.

The victim’s skull was smashed with a 20-kilogram (44-pound) rock, and the body was apparently raped with beer bottles, local media reported. The suspects also tried and failed to burn his body by putting pieces of carton boxes underneath it and lighting them on fire.

After brutally assaulting the victim, the men left, but later returned after realizing that the victim would call the police if he regained consciousness. After returning to the scene, the perpetrator decided to beat the victim to death. One of the suspects picked up a rock and hit the victim with it eight times in the head.

I believe that this is wrong. Other than the reporter saying that it was “homophobic”…where in the details of what happened do you see…fear of homosexuals…a phobia is not hatred…

homosexualmisia
A hatred of homosexuality and homosexuals.

This example you gave is not homophobia. It may be hatred, however you cannot call it homophobia…

I would imagaine that someplace, someone has a fear of a homosexual…so I am sure it exists…