S.F. Catholic Church priest bans girls as altar servers

[Prodigal_40s]

I could not find in the article where these two were shown to be related. Again, it makes this assumption that more girls equates to fewer boys.

That’s a logical fact. Oh and ah you still haven’t mentioned your post about “altar boys in dresses”. That uncharitable one?

 

[Prodigal_40s]

I apologise for upsetting you. What is disgusting is the lack of respect for women shown by stating that women have no right to be in the sanctuary or in the military. The saving grace is that 99.999% of men and women do not hold those beliefs to be valid unless they are living in Saudi Arabia. Education is the tool needed to move those stuck in 1650 into the real world where all people are encouraged to worship together and to follow their dreams. Unfortunately, those in the most need of a higher education are those who are scared to death of education as a whole because it debunks some of their most cherished bigotry.

Have you got a link to this study containing these results?

Education? So what would you do to educate the people who believed in following the path that Our Lord set out for us during his ministry on Earth? How would you "educate them? According to you that’s only 0.001 % of the population but how would you bring them “up to speed”?

 

[KSU]

I apologise for upsetting you. What is disgusting is the lack of respect for women shown by stating that women have no right to be in the sanctuary or in the military. The saving grace is that 99.999% of men and women do not hold those beliefs to be valid unless they are living in Saudi Arabia. Education is the tool needed to move those stuck in 1650 into the real world where all people are encouraged to worship together and to follow their dreams. Unfortunately, those in the most need of a higher education are those who are scared to death of education as a whole because it debunks some of their most cherished bigotry.

I didn’t ask for your “apology”; nor did you give one. You need to apologize to hosemonkey, especially for putting words in his mouth.

 

[Brendan]

I could not find in the article where these two were shown to be related. Again, it makes this assumption that more girls equates to fewer boys.

On the anecdotal side, here is my parish at a typical Sunday Mass.

Note the lack of girls serving.

onedrive.live.com/?cid=D48DBDC01A7E8A7D&id=D48DBDC01A7E8A7D%21620&sc=photos&v=3

There are similar stories at the three other parishes in the Archdiocese that have only boys\men in service at the altar.

Oh, and our parish has seen 11 men Ordained to the priesthood in the last 10 years, and has 4 more in the seminary right now. Parish size is about 900 families.

 

[JimG]

I could not find in the article where these two were shown to be related. Again, it makes this assumption that more girls equates to fewer boys.

That’s true. It was just an isolated mention of altar girls in reference to his subject. In a follow up article, he further emphasize the importance of activities which are exclusive to boys and to girls, even mentioning separate classrooms in schools, and an emphasis on masculine virtues if one wants to attract men to the priesthood.

My own parishes has both boys and girls as altar servers. We also have several organizations just for girls and just for boys.

 

[Prodigal_40s]

On the anecdotal side, here is my parish at a typical Sunday Mass.

Note the lack of girls serving.

onedrive.live.com/?cid=D48DBDC01A7E8A7D&id=D48DBDC01A7E8A7D%21620&sc=photos&v=3

There are similar stories at the three other parishes in the Archdiocese that have only boys\men in service at the altar.

Oh, and our parish has seen 11 men Ordained to the priesthood in the last 10 years, and has 4 more in the seminary right now. Parish size is about 900 families.

Presumably a crisis is what you’d call it? If so surely taking the steps to encourage priests from a young age is the correct move? I also think making the Church a more manly and stronger place as Christ demanded us to by his sacrifice is a step in the right direction.

 

[SWolf]

I apologise for upsetting you. What is disgusting is the lack of respect for women shown by stating that women have no right to be in the sanctuary or in the military. The saving grace is that 99.999% of men and women do not hold those beliefs to be valid unless they are living in Saudi Arabia. Education is the tool needed to move those stuck in 1650 into the real world where all people are encouraged to worship together and to follow their dreams. Unfortunately, those in the most need of a higher education are those who are scared to death of education as a whole because it debunks some of their most cherished bigotry.

I don’t believe in women in the military in combat roles because if women and children die, it better be because every man has died defending them.

No laity should not be in the sanctuary during mass except altar servers, who should be male.

If that makes me an uneducated, bigoted neanderthal, so be it.

Master’s Degree: Computer Science

 

[Bballer32]

Presumably a crisis is what you’d call it? If so surely taking the steps to encourage priests from a young age is the correct move? I also think making the Church a more manly and stronger place as Christ demanded us to by his sacrifice is a step in the right direction.

And the way to make it manlier is to encourage male altar servers.

 

[Prodigal_40s]

I don’t believe in women in the military in combat roles because if women and children die, it better be because every man has died defending them.

No laity should not be in the sanctuary during mass except altar servers, who should be male.

If that makes me an uneducated, bigoted neanderthal, so be it.

Master’s Degree: Computer Science

I’m a postgrad (MSc.) in Management Systems and IT too. Are you one of that 0.001% too?

 

[KSU]

I don’t believe in women in the military in combat roles because if women and children die, it better be because every man has died defending them.

No laity should not be in the sanctuary during mass except altar servers, who should be male.

If that makes me an uneducated, bigoted neanderthal, so be it.

Master’s Degree: Computer Science

Hey, SWolf, why is my computer so slow?

 

[Prodigal_40s]

And the way to make it manlier is to encourage male altar servers.

I would have thought so but seemingly all these people have anecdotal evidence. My thoughts on that are that the Catholic Church needs a massive overhaul including overseeing the teaching of authentic faith. That means anyone who dissents should be encouraged to change and if not told to leave.

 

[Bballer32]

I would have thought so but seemingly all these people have anecdotal evidence. My thoughts on that are that** the Catholic Church needs a massive overhaul including overseeing the teaching of authentic faith. That means anyone who dissents should be encouraged to change and if not told to leave**.

The bolded part I totally 100% agree. My charism in my priesthood will be on educating and converting the average man. I’m well aware of the educated being “uneducated on what really matters” And as I see it (as well as you), it starts from the pulpit and also more catechetical involvement by the priest.

And to comment of the second part of your sentence, I am also tired of the fluffy, wishy-washy, let’s not offend anyone stuff that goes on in our Church. People either need to believe or leave (and if necessary Forced to leave).

 

[SWolf]

I’m a postgrad (MSc.) in Management Systems and IT too. Are you one of that 0.001% too?

Yup, and I don’t live in Saudi Arabia.

The funny part is my wife(Master’s Degree) is even more traditional than me on these issues. If someone told her she was being oppressed by the patriarchy, she would probably just laugh.

 

[pnewton]

That’s a logical fact. Oh and ah you still haven’t mentioned your post about “altar boys in dresses”. That uncharitable one?

I am missing the question. I did not say anything about "altar boys in dresses. I guess you could call a robe a dress, as you do a kilt. I am not trying to be obtuse. Maybe I missed the poster that use that phrase. I know I didn’t

 

[Prodigal_40s]

I am missing the question. I did not say anything about "altar boys in dresses. I guess you could call a robe a dress, as you do a kilt. I am not trying to be obtuse. Maybe I missed the poster that use that phrase. I know I didn’t

Not trying to be “uncharitable” or making you look foolish you understand but…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12645681&postcount=166

"In light of the altar girl issue, I was thinking about what makes a man. While I agree with the later, I do not think I can accept the former. “Present themselves” is too external. How can this be measured? The pitch of the voice? (no tenors) Too much lilt? (no Irish) I mean, is it the external appearance that makes a man, or what is on the inside. Therefore, I will take the opposite position that if we are to teach boys to be men, then catering to those who do not want to do anything a girl might do is counterproductive. Such boys should be told to buck it up and not find excuses to avoid service to God. That is being a man. Men do not turn tail because of some little discomfort. Boys need godly exposure to girls to know how to treat them with equal dignity. This can never occur too early.

Oh, and the “dress themselves” part, I find funny (ha ha, funny. Really!) **since we put the altar boys in white dresses to serve. **

Oh and btw I’m Northern Irish / British but I’m going to see that as your attempt at humour and not a lack of charity

 

[Prodigal_40s]

Yup, and I don’t live in Saudi Arabia.

The funny part is my wife(Master’s Degree) is even more traditional than me on these issues. If someone told her she was being oppressed by the patriarchy, she would probably just laugh.

I forgot about that. I know what you mean about the wife.

Faithful Catholics understand the path of Our Lord and Saviour regardless of Sex and when feminism starts to confuse supernatural ritual with the secular, I try and present it in their terms which they don’t understand so I give up. Their arguments are always based in Worldly terms and therefore subject to the infusion of rotten garbage

 

[pnewton]

I would have thought so but seemingly all these people have anecdotal evidence.

I think anecdotal evidence holds some value. For the parish that is using all boys and believes a correlation in vocations is causative, then I can see why the priest would want to keep that practice.

Ok. So you’re saying that there isn’t a crisis in the Church that warrants immediate attention such as encouraging altar boys to ensure that we have more priests?

No. Vocations have not dropped, except as a percentage, and are still in keeping with what is happening in the rest of Christianity. The greater crisis is the secularism which makes Man rely on himself and dismiss both the need and the idea of God. I believe this to be the root of the decline of vocations in the West based on comparisons with the Church world wide and looking at other denominations.

Yet it remains that what you say must be done. Boys must be encouraged to seek serving the Church from the onset, as a lifestyle, to develop priests as role models and find a love of liturgy. Ditto girls.

 

[ProVobis]

No. Vocations have not dropped, except as a percentage, and are still in keeping with what is happening in the rest of Christianity.

Technically, the religious and the laity have their vocations as well. As well as ministries. I think Vatican II tried to emphasize that.

 

[Prodigal_40s]

I think anecdotal evidence holds some value. For the parish that is using all boys and believes a correlation in vocations is causative, then I can see why the priest would want to keep that practice.

No. Vocations have not dropped, except as a percentage, and are still in keeping with what is happening in the rest of Christianity. The greater crisis is the secularism which makes Man rely on himself and dismiss both the need and the idea of God. I believe this to be the root of the decline of vocations in the West based on comparisons with the Church world wide and looking at other denominations.

Yet it remains that what you say must be done. Boys must be encouraged to seek serving the Church from the onset, as a lifestyle, to develop priests as role models and find a love of liturgy. Ditto girls.

That’s not the case at all. In Ireland 84% of the population stated that they were Catholic and 270,000 stated that they were atheists. So what we have is a huge number of Catholics who have been disillusioned by the Abuse Crisis and a failure to excommunicate clergy who did not expel the mainly homosexual predators who infiltrated the church. That has left an indelible stain on people’s views and the church needs strong men and women to stand for church teaching.

In the interests of making the forum charitable, can you please respond to my other post and explain your comments that you earlier denied making?

 

[sisterpatril]

I think having girls as altar servers has been a mistake all along. Neither do I think women should be lectors. Women are not called to a vocation to the altar, as they cannot be priests…boys are, as they can be called to the priesthood…and the camaraderie of being on the altar as young men is preparation for that possible call.

The sanctuary should be reserved for males because the priesthood, as God designed it from the very beginning, has always been for men only.

(And, yes, I am a woman!)

---

What do you all think about a young girl being allowed to lector at SUNDAY (!) Mass, even though she needed to have her mother stand up with her to help her pronounce some of the words?