S.F. Catholic Church priest bans girls as altar servers

[irishpatrick]

Not enough for what?

Yes, we should encourage young men to be priests, but not by discouraging young women from having an active part in their Church. You’ll forgive me, but yours is not the “critical question”. As I said earlier, the “critical question” is “Does the presence of female altar servers dissuade young men from the priesthood?” And the answer, given that there is absolutely no proof for the assertion, is “No”.

Let us see if we can reach some common ground.

1. Do you believe we need more Priests?
2. Do you believe there is an actual shortage of Priests?
3. Do you believe that men, and only men, can become Priests?
4. Do you believe that the Church has made it infallibly clear that only men can be Priests?

(for my part, I answer yes to all of the above)

 

[Tigg]

Consider this:

Of all the females who currently serve at the altar, none of them will become Priests.
Also, for those needing further data, go here: on-this-rock.blogspot.com/2013/09/statistics-concerning-male-altar-servers.html

Well…considering the topic of “womenpriests” just never goes away (there’s an active thread on this forum at the moment) many think there is a correlation.

 

[Tigg]

Not enough for what?

As I said earlier, the “critical question” is “Does the presence of female altar servers dissuade young men from the priesthood?” And the answer, given that there is absolutely no proof for the assertion, is “No”.

Neither is there any proof that young men are not dissuaded on some level. I hardly think you can box it in like this since the volumes written about the feminization of the Church are vast. And the influence wide. There is a period of time when healthy child development in traditional families includes a strong assertion of gender. Both our boys went through a period of thinking “the girls had cooties” and wanted absolutely nothing to do with them. This is a temporary, natural and healthy phase. It is not unusual for priests (and parents) to hear grumblings from the boys that serving is “too girly.”

 

[casslean]

There seems to be a lot of “sit down and shut up” missing from us Catholics in today’s world.

It’s ironic that our assistant priest and one of our lay leaders had a lengthy discussion with us after our last RCIA class on how this type of attitude had been so damaging to the church for so many generations, and that the church is now trying to undo some of that damage to bring people back.

I wonder if the people who want to hearken back to the “good old days” have stopped to consider how many people left the church during those days.

 

[phil19034]

I’m glad that’s what you would do. But that’s not the point of what I said. My sister chose to serve the Lord by serving for him at mass. Why is that so wrong?

Hello religioussoup,
Thank you for posting your question. No one here (nor the article) is saying that it’s wrong for your sister to serve. Your pastor allows it so it’s wonderful that she serves.

The question isn’t theological. It’s logistical. The child altar server program should be about forming youth discipleship and increase vocations. That’s why it was originally created.

Many people feel that in many (not all) parishes, the program isn’t doing a good enough job for either of those. If there a parish allows altar girls AND that program does a good job of forming discipleship, then it should stay. But if there is a parish which allows Altar Girls and has no discipleship and no vocations in the program, then that program needs to be examined.

Studies show that Youth Discipleship is best archived in girls only and boys only discussion groups. If a pastor can do a good job with co-Ed youth altar servers, God bless him.

But if the pastor feels that youth of the Church would be better off splitting them into different groups, then the pastor should not be vilified for doing so.

Now, I will say this, if a parish doesn’t have altar girls, it SHOULD have a program for girls which encourages discipleship and female vocations.

God Bless you and your sister

 

[phil19034]

It’s ironic that our assistant priest and one of our lay leaders had a lengthy discussion with us after our last RCIA class on how this type of attitude had been so damaging to the church for so many generations, and that the church is now trying to undo some of that damage to bring people back.

I wonder if the people who want to hearken back to the “good old days” have stopped to consider how many people left the church during those days.

According to my Archbishop (Archbishop Chaput), the main reason so many left the Church back in those days was because kids were being Catechized, but NOT Evangelized.

Too knew Church teaching, but few understood WHY the Church taught what she teaches.

Now one educated on the subject wants to go back to the “good old days,” those a days are gone. But it’s ALWAYS wise to look at at our past and examined what things worked well.

There are things we can reincorporate from the past which worked and and add them to the “need good things” we have today. At the same time, learning from the errors of the past and present.

Fools ignore the past and fools focus on the past. While the wise live in the present, learn from the past, and adapt the good of the past with modern ideas. After all, that’s how the America form of government was founded.

God Bless

 

[Corki]

Hello religioussoup,
Thank you for posting your question. No one here (nor the article) is saying that it’s wrong for your sister to serve. Your pastor allows it so it’s wonderful that she serves.

The question isn’t theological. It’s logistical. The child altar server program should be about forming youth discipleship and increase vocations. That’s why it was originally created.

Many people feel that in many (not all) parishes, the program isn’t doing a good enough job for either of those. If there a parish allows altar girls AND that program does a good job of forming discipleship, then it should stay. But if there is a parish which allows Altar Girls and has no discipleship and no vocations in the program, then that program needs to be examined.

Studies show that Youth Discipleship is best archived in girls only and boys only discussion groups. If a pastor can do a good job with co-Ed youth altar servers, God bless him.

But if the pastor feels that youth of the Church would be better off splitting them into different groups, then the pastor should not be vilified for doing so.

Now, I will say this, if a parish doesn’t have altar girls, it SHOULD have a program for girls which encourages discipleship and female vocations.

God Bless you and your sister

This was an excellent explanation.

 

[ProVobis]

No wonder we don’t have young men beating down the doors of seminaries wanting to become priests. Who would want to shepherd a flock of noisy sheep all bleating “Meee, Meee, Meee, It’s all about Meee.”

And it’s not so much entering the seminary as it is in completing the formation once they’re in there. There are also quite a few who quit after becoming priests as well. We probably all know some ex-priests. As well as priests who are simply “burned out.”

Furthermore, many priests pursue degrees in areas other than divinity. Often business administration, as they are often assigned by the diocese to do just that. It’s not all spiritual.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

It’s ironic that our assistant priest and one of our lay leaders had a lengthy discussion with us after our last RCIA class on how this type of attitude had been so damaging to the church for so many generations, and that the church is now trying to undo some of that damage to bring people back.

I wonder if the people who want to hearken back to the “good old days” have stopped to consider how many people left the church during those days.

You mean the good old days of when people actually let their priests be the shepherd instead trying to back seat drive him because they “knew” better? Yeah, I’d love a return to those days. Father wants to just do the EF/OF? Well he’s the priest, so I’ll just worry about being a good little sheep. He wants/doesn’t want girl altar servers? Baa (translation from sheep- not actually my concern).

 

[Denise1957]

Ummm, perhaps you haven’t noticed, but all priests, and all those in the Church in any position of power—temporal or spiritual—are male. I know, sometimes it’s hard to spot, so don’t feel bad if you didn’t catch it…

How do you define “position of power,” exactly?

 

[ProVobis]

I wonder if the people who want to hearken back to the “good old days” have stopped to consider how many people left the church during those days.

Attendance has been going down since the 50’s. And coincidentally enough, Mass reforms had been started in the late 40’s if not before. Everything we saw back in the 60’s and 70’s (vernacular, facing the people, elimination of private prayers, more laity involved in the sanctuary, etc.) had been long planned out.

 

[boar2roar]

When people say alter serving is not officially priesthood training/ apprenticeship there is a really good reason for why it isn’t officially outlined that way but why it still should remain all male. If it was officially as priest apprenticeship it would carry a huge amount of baggage and drastically lower the amount of parents/kids willing to do it because a lot of people have reservations about wanting their kids to becoming priests, not to mention teasing from other kids especially as they get older. The church has rather well taken off some of the deeper implications of priestly apprenticeship for kids while allowing as much people as possible to join and do priest like work. Its pretty much the only priestly recruitment strategy that ever reaches a large amount of people. The fact that its so non binding isn’t by accident and that helps reach the large amount of people that do it. The hope is that perhaps kids start liking it up there doing mini priest like functions.

 

[irishpatrick]

It’s ironic that our assistant priest and one of our lay leaders had a lengthy discussion with us after our last RCIA class on how this type of attitude had been so damaging to the church for so many generations, and that the church is now trying to undo some of that damage to bring people back.

I wonder if the people who want to hearken back to the “good old days” have stopped to consider how many people left the church during those days.

In the so-called good ole days weekly Mass attendance rates were at 74% and higher. Today, in our more enlightened days, weekly Mass attendance rates hovers around 26-30%.

 

[irishpatrick]

It is interesting to note that in 1991, there were 52,227 Priests in Catholic Churches in the USA. In 2014, that number has dropped to 38, 275.

Let us all take something into account with this discussion: No parish NEEDS altar servers. The Priests and Deacons can certainly do the tasks the servers perform. Serving at the altar is NOT a right, it is a precious gift.

 

[kozlosap]

Attendance has been going down since the 50’s. And coincidentally enough, Mass reforms had been started in the late 40’s if not before. Everything we saw back in the 60’s and 70’s (vernacular, facing the people, elimination of private prayers, more laity involved in the sanctuary, etc.) had been long planned out.

We are fifty years post VII. the world is entirely different due to the mass media including social media and the increase in an educated population. If people are coming back, it is because of the Francis Effect. My friends who are returning, or considering returning, are doing so because of the Church, once again, stressing social justice and living out the Gospels of Our Lord instead of being the Church of “No”. The glass half full is much more attractive than the glass half empty. Yes,I’m a Pollyanna - so be it!

 

[pnewton]

p, to cut to the chase, it’s my understanding that theVatican does not permit any national bishops’ conference or bishop to force a priest to use female alter servers. Isn’t that correct??

I do not think so, except in practical matters, namely, that no one person can be forced to serve altar and any determined priest could simply not choose girls. However, the bishop also could simply reassign such a priest. But as to the rule, that would be set by the bishop and he does not need the permission of the priest to say that altar girls will be permitted. The priest is only the representative of the bishop. He has not authority in a parish that he does not derive directly from the bishops. He does have certain personal rights as a priest, but they do not extend to the parish.

 

[pnewton]

The daughter wants to be an altar server and her parish priests agrees it’s good for girls to do so…but to reinforce her faith, her parents will not let her do it?

That is a good question. Parents may simply not deem it practical. For example, if the girl has gender confusion, or has become desirous of being one of the first women priest, a parent may use the decision to help form her faith and disallow service. Also, some parents simply do not believe girls should serve. If so, they too have the right to act in accord with their conscience. Yes, the Catholic Church has stated there is no doctrinal reason to restrict service to boys. However, a Catholic is not mandated to believe that it should be opened to girls, only that it could.

 

[pnewton]

If you should like to defend your position or opinion on the topic of altar girls, perhaps you should find Church teaching which defends your position…

That is a very reasonable request. From the Code of Canon Law:

“Lay persons can fulfil the function of lector in liturgical actions by temporary designation. All lay persons can also perform the functions of commentator or cantor, or other functions, according to the norm of law.”

The use of “viri” was dropped, which had restricted the practice to males. In a case of discipline, authority is of greater importance than doctrine, because but the nature of a disciplinary decision, there is not doctrine, no “Truth”. In 1994 the CDW wrote a letter clarifying that girls are allowed to serve altar.

 

[pnewton]

It wouldn’t be wrong if one is asked. But it is my understanding that this (among other things) is the priest’s call. He may chose to have no servers if he sees no one that can fit.

Just to clarify something I wrote earlier, I have never heard of a bishop mandating that girls be allowed to serve altar in every parish. So at this time, it is the priests’ decision. There is an exception. I read of one bishop that restricted serving to boys. In that diocese, it is not the priests’ decision.

 

[pnewton]

There seems to be a lot of “sit down and shut up” missing from us Catholics in today’s world.

I love it!, though I have gotten in a wreck a time or two over this. “Build a bridge and get over it.” “Grow a …” " Buck it up." Yes. I am trying to teach this to my son now. We complain way too much, being overly concerned with being fair while missing the weightier matters of justice.