S.F. Catholic Church priest bans girls as altar servers

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ARSpade said:
Why do you hate men and seek to deny them male only spaces where they can feel comfortable and perform a ministry? I think you need to be a bit more sensative to the needs of others and stop seeing things from only the perspective of your own personal gender.
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I hate men because I don’t think it’s appropriate to exclude women without a sound theological reason (or really, any sound sociological evidence)? You did read where I said that I was happy to defend an all-male priesthood, right?

Would it be appropriate if we were to say, “OK, altar serving will be male only, but EMsHC will only be women from now on, because we want them to have a ministry where they can feel comfortable.” Of course not. No one should be excluded from participating without a compelling reason, and the fact that a few people apparently believe that God is unable to ensure that those He wants to serve Him are able to hear Him over the girls serving on the altar is not compelling.
 
I’m actually a bit surprised that no one has responded to my previous post or commented on Legion of Mary.

I personally feel that the Parishes and Church would be better off if the Altar Boy program was designed as a seminary prep program (still allowing any boys though). They should visit the seminary at least once a year (if not more), etc.

Meanwhile, have a Legion of Mary program for the girls where they attend adoration, pray the rosary as a group, help the priest read and pray all the parish intentions, and lead Marian prayers before and/or after Mass. Run this like a nun prep program. They can visit convents and even visit with elderly nuns to assist them around the convent. Plus they can assist with CCD if already Confirmed.

Vocations would increase for both priests and nuns. Others would become strong Catholics and perhaps lay leaders in the Church.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12700269&postcount=34

God Bless
 
It’s good to see that the Archbishop held up the priest’s decision to no longer allow girls to be trained to serve at the altar. The girls who are already serving will continue to serve, but new girls will no longer be trained (the practice of having girls serve at the altar will be gradually phased out). That sounds fair. I personally don’t care to see girls serve at the altar, but it’s not up to me. The reasons cited in the article as to why the priest made this decision seem very reasonable, IMO.
 
phil19034 said:
I’m actually a bit surprised that no one has responded to my previous post or commented on Legion of Mary.

I personally feel that the Parishes and Church would be better off if the Altar Boy program was designed as a seminary prep program (still allowing any boys though). They should visit the seminary at least once a year (if not more), etc.

Meanwhile, have a Legion of Mary program for the girls where they attend adoration, pray the rosary as a group, help the priest read and pray all the parish intentions, and lead Marian prayers before and/or after Mass. Run this like a nun prep program. They can visit convents and even visit with elderly nuns to assist them around the convent. Plus they can assist with CCD if already Confirmed.

Vocations would increase for both priests and nuns. Others would become strong Catholics and perhaps lay leaders in the Church.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12700269&postcount=34

God Bless
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It would indeed be a good idea to have a group for girls and young women at parishes, so that they can feel more involved. I considered joining a Legion of Mary at a local parish in my city, but it bothered me that they go knocking door-to-door to talk to strangers about the Catholic faith (historically this is not something that Catholics do, though Protestants do, of course). Girls can also help decorate the altar (flowers, etc.), which is actually quite important, as it provides a beautiful setting for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

There should also be a stronger faith life in the home, for girls. Nothing can really replace a strong family commitment to the Catholic faith at home.
 
phil19034 said:
I’m actually a bit surprised that no one has responded to my previous post or commented on Legion of Mary.

I personally feel that the Parishes and Church would be better off if the Altar Boy program was designed as a seminary prep program (still allowing any boys though). They should visit the seminary at least once a year (if not more), etc.

Meanwhile, have a Legion of Mary program for the girls where they attend adoration, pray the rosary as a group, help the priest read and pray all the parish intentions, and lead Marian prayers before and/or after Mass. Run this like a nun prep program. They can visit convents and even visit with elderly nuns to assist them around the convent. Plus they can assist with CCD if already Confirmed.

Vocations would increase for both priests and nuns. Others would become strong Catholics and perhaps lay leaders in the Church.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12700269&postcount=34

God Bless/QUOTE
I wholeheartedly agree. And this is why my daughter will not be an alter server. She is involved with a group of Marian sisters—this is where she may get a calling as she is seeing women in their proper roles as religious.
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phil19034 said:
I’m actually a bit surprised that no one has responded to my previous post or commented on Legion of Mary.

I personally feel that the Parishes and Church would be better off if the Altar Boy program was designed as a seminary prep program (still allowing any boys though). They should visit the seminary at least once a year (if not more), etc.

Meanwhile, have a Legion of Mary program for the girls where they attend adoration, pray the rosary as a group, help the priest read and pray all the parish intentions, and lead Marian prayers before and/or after Mass. Run this like a nun prep program. They can visit convents and even visit with elderly nuns to assist them around the convent. Plus they can assist with CCD if already Confirmed.

Vocations would increase for both priests and nuns. Others would become strong Catholics and perhaps lay leaders in the Church.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12700269&postcount=34

God Bless
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It’s a strange phenomenon that a lot of parishes don’t really put very much effort into getting more religious, both male and female. Most have a poster showing current seminarians, if that, and that’s where it stops. No consistent discernment programs, no visits to seminaries, nothing of the sort. It’s almost like many are afraid of people getting turned off if they preach the necessity of vocations.

It doesn’t matter how many parishioners you have, nor how inclusive you are; if your parish doesn’t get vocations, it’s a dying parish.
 
Denise1957 said:
It would indeed be a good idea to have a group for girls and young women at parishes, so that they can feel more involved. I considered joining a Legion of Mary at a local parish in my city, but it bothered me that they go knocking door-to-door to talk to strangers about the Catholic faith (historically this is not something that Catholics do, though Protestants do, of course). Girls can also help decorate the altar (flowers, etc.), which is actually quite important, as it provides a beautiful setting for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

There should also be a stronger faith life in the home, for girls. Nothing can really replace a strong family commitment to the Catholic faith at home.
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I don’t think Legion of Mary has to do door to door evangelization. That may have just been what your parish group was doing. Here is their world wide website: legionofmary.ie

There is also the Blessed Imelda Lambertini Society which is for girls post first communion where they focus on Adoration and Prayer. I’ve seen society for girls succeed big time at this parish: materecclesiae.org/groups/lambertini/

Here is their website: blessedimelda.org

God Bless
 
Denise1957 said:
It’s good to see that the Archbishop held up the priest’s decision to no longer allow girls to be trained to serve at the altar. The girls who are already serving will continue to serve, but new girls will no longer be trained (the practice of having girls serve at the altar will be gradually phased out). That sounds fair. I personally don’t care to see girls serve at the altar, but it’s not up to me. The reasons cited in the article as to why the priest made this decision seem very reasonable, IMO.
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I don’t think the diocese really had a choice. The priest is really “in charge” of his own Masses. To dictate to the priest how he says Mass, would really open up a canonical can of worms.
 
phil19034 said:
I don’t think Legion of Mary has to do door to door evangelization. That may have just been what your parish group was doing. Here is their world wide website: legionofmary.ie

There is also the Blessed Imelda Lambertini Society which is for girls post first communion where they focus on Adoration and Prayer. I’ve seen society for girls succeed big time at this parish: materecclesiae.org/groups/lambertini/

Here is their website: blessedimelda.org

God Bless
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If you do a google search, you’ll find that there are parishes around the country where the Legion of Mary do door-to-door evangelization. Here’s an article about it:

legionofmary.org/d_to_d.htm

I’m not saying the door-to-door evangelization is a bad thing - it just doesn’t seem Catholic, to me. I’m sure that the Catholics who participate in this are good Catholics, and they mean well. Focusing on adoration and prayer are a really good thing, though. 🙂
 
Sy_Noe said:
Maybe serving could lead to a desire to be nun. I’m sure the girls have been or will be catechized to know they can not be priests.
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The very actions performed when serving at the altar imply inspiration for vocations to the priesthood. Since nuns can’t be priests…🤷
 
Denise1957 said:
If you do a google search, you’ll find that there are parishes around the country where the Legion of Mary do door-to-door evangelization. Here’s an article about it:

legionofmary.org/d_to_d.htm

I’m not saying the door-to-door evangelization is a bad thing - it just doesn’t seem Catholic, to me. I’m sure that the Catholics who participate in this are good Catholics, and they mean well. Focusing on adoration and prayer are a really good thing, though. 🙂
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Going door to door is a good thing. It is a Catholic thing and the Popes have even encouraged parishes to do this. It’s not door-to-door proselytizing but rather reaching out to (usually) Catholics within the parish boundaries that are either fallen away or otherwise disconnected from their parish.
 
Corki said:
Going door to door is a good thing. It is a Catholic thing and the Popes have even encouraged parishes to do this. It’s not door-to-door proselytizing but rather reaching out to (usually) Catholics within the parish boundaries that are either fallen away or otherwise disconnected from their parish.
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They only knock on the doors of fallen away or lapsed Catholics? I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info.
 
casslean said:
That doesn’t mean the answer is to start excluding women or girls from roles without any sound theological reason for doing so.

I can defend the Church’s position on not having women in the priesthood. I am happy to do so. There is a strong, theological basis for that defense. But what is my defense when people tell me the Catholic Church devalues women, and shows me articles like this as proof? I don’t have one. I can’t refute their argument that such acts show that my value to this Church is based on whether or not I can become a priest, and since I can’t, my value is limited.

And so when my friends, professional women who are raising young daughters, tell me that they don’t want to be part of a church that cannot give them a good reason for excluding their daughters, I have to sympathize.

Fathers may be important for determining if children stay in the faith, but I would lay odds that in those families, it’s the mothers who provide the initial grounding. If there’s no foundation, there’s nothing to build on. If you make women feel excluded and unwelcome, if you make them feel like they have to stay in their corner, they will go somewhere they do feel welcome.
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No one has the right to be an altar server. Its a very important role and the only reason it was ever entrusted to children was as an aid to vocations to the priesthood. Does it help? I am sure it does. One would find out by asking how many altar servers become priests, one would find out by asking priests how many of them were altar servers. And that number is around 75%. ( usccb.org/news/2012/12-086.cfm ).

I would have no problem with adult women as altar servers, there is no point in girls being altar servers.

Edited to add: As to how to correct your friends’ perceptions about the Church’s attitude towards women, I would focus on those areas of society in which women are truly being harmed: namely the wide spread pornography industry, wide spread objectifying women in the media, human trafficking, etch. On these institutionalized abuse of women, the Church has been at the forefront of moral condemnation.
 
cycleman said:
Last Sunday, I attended a United Church service led by a women minister. In her sermon, she described a moment with her young (pre-school) daughter and gift giving/ gift receiving and love. It immediately struck me that such a perspective would never come from a Catholic altar as there will never be priests that have the experience of being any of 1) female, 2) married, or 3) a parent.
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Corki said:
And why would anyone want the same perspective from an ordained Catholic priest as from a Protestant minister?
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Nothing to do with Catholic vs Protestant specifically. I’m just musing that the Catholic priesthood lacks the perspectives (understanding from personal experience) of women, married life, and raising children.
 
tafan said:
Edited to add: As to how to correct your friends’ perceptions about the Church’s attitude towards women, I would focus on those areas of society in which women are truly being harmed: namely the wide spread pornography industry, wide spread objectifying women in the media, human trafficking, etch. On these institutionalized abuse of women, the Church has been at the forefront of moral condemnation.
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What a great point!
 
casslean said:
I’m sorry but I cannot condone the Church perpetuating outdated and outmoded stereotypes. If this is true, we don’t need to exclude women or girls; we need to educate men and boys that no task is inferior or beneath them simply because women can do it as well.
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I don’t think any one denies that ladies CAN do it, in terms of possibilities. After all, what does it take to carry and pour from cruets? But how will all this bring men back to church?
 
cycleman said:
Nothing to do with Catholic vs Protestant specifically. I’m just musing that the Catholic priesthood lacks the perspectives (understanding from personal experience) of women, married life, and raising children.
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The Catholic priesthood, as a whole, does not (as has been pointed out) lack the perspective and personal experience of married life and raising children. There are not women in Holy Orders but that doesn’t mean that the perspective of women is lacking in the Church.

And it really** is i**ntegral to the Catholic vs. Protestant vision of both ministry and liturgy. A Catholic homily isn’t supposed to be about the personal experience of the priest; if anything, it’s about the personal experience of the flock. If an example is needed to illustrate a point, it doesn’t really matter **how **the priest experienced that situation. A priest telling the same story from the viewpoint of being a loving uncle seeing his niece or nephew and their gift giving would be just as valid.
 
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