Sacraments necessary?

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Thanks, but now, can you reconcile why scripture explains that our “salvation is through Grace, though Faith, through Jesus Christ”… did the Biblical writers forget the sacraments…?
 
Christianapologist said:
Thanks, but now, can you reconcile why scripture explains that our “salvation is through Grace, though Faith, through Jesus Christ”… did the Biblical writers forget the sacraments…?
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Our salvation is through Grace, by faith. Who said anything to contradict that? Sacraments convey grace in a way that builds our faith and brings us closer to Christ.

What needs to be reconciled? Do you not recognize that sacraments are graces, ie something given to us by God?

How do you encounter Christ in your life? Is it just by hearing what others say about him or do you ever hear him speak? John 4:7
 
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You still have not answered where Christ taught bible alone. That is the elephant in your living room.

Any answer? Any at all?

Waiting…

We KNOW scripture is inspired by God - the Catholic Church determined that FOR YOU. The Catholic Church compiled it, culled out the false writings long ago, preserved it and handed it on for 2 millennia now.

We love scripture so much we did not shred 7 books out of the bible.

You say those books weren’t inspired? Really? Did God reveal this to you?

Still confused about your theology.

Oh, and if you are neither Catholic nor Orthodox, and use the 66 book PROTESTANT bible as a sole rule…

…just what are you?

Even more confused.

I am responding to you, but also responding for those searching for the entire truth, not just enough to get by, or enough to feel comfortable with.

And guess what? It is not my theology or my opinion or my ego (although it does flare), it is the Church which Christ founded speaking and teaching.

Stray from that at your own risk!

I have another question for another time.
 
My last question that went unanswered: What passage in 1 Cor 11 are you referring to…?
 
Christianapologist said:
As Christians, we’re taught that Grace is what we received through the blood of Jesus Christ.
The flip side to this same coin is that the grace of God is the power and ability of God flowing and operating through us so that we can fully accomplish everything that He would like for us to accomplish for Him in this life – and also to become the true saints that He is calling us to become in Him through the sanctification process that He wants to start with each and everyone of us. And that begins by our submission to His Will…
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Exactly. Grace means something that is given. It is even clearer in Greek, charis, charisma, etc. have become different words in more modern languages. The Eucharist was given by Jesus to his disciples, with a command that they should also “do this” that is, give the Eucharist to others. And of course, this gift has the characteristics of grace that you describe, all the gifts of God are grace. Why do you resist submitting to this request that we do this?
Christianapologist said:
Participating in events that require Catholic sacerdotalism do not align with God’s Will… We can go direct to God without another person’s “assistance”.
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Where does it say that in Scripture? Don’t you believe there apostles, prophets, teachers, etc. like 1 Cor 12 tells us? (I figure if you are reading 1 Cor 11, you can read the next chapter too)

You seem like a person blessed by a strong relationship with Christ. Why are you opposed to doing what he asked us to do? Fellowship and communion are from the same Greek word, why not embrace our communion as well as other fellowship? I know many who have their faith nourished by the Eucharist.
 
Jesus is present in the consecrated host! We believe that. He multiplied the loaves for the crowd…it is no problem for Him to come to each person… the Risen Christ!

He is the true manna from heaven! If you believe otherwise why do you want to dissuade us from believing it is true?

May the Lord Jesus Christ bless us all.
 
Christianapologist said:
So, I think this began with: where did God say that the sacraments are needed for salvation…?

Keep in mind that your answer, unless it’s a scriptural quote, will be “subjective”…

If you use scripture, feel free to show the reasoning of your interpretation.
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That’s the problem though, isn’t it? Scripture can be argued reasonably from various, often contradictory, positions. And your position appears to be that nothing more for salvation than that which is stated in Rom 10 is necessary. And I countered that by showing that Scripture actually says otherwise. And that Scripture already tells us that not everything was recorded that Jesus said and did, and that many unwritten teachings/traditions were to be held onto. Either way, if you want to ignore the rest of Scripture and insist that Paul was making an exhaustive statement in Rom 10 as to the means of salvation, then reason hasn’t has prevailed in your understanding to begin with.

Subjectivity comes into play with faith when we consider that while reason should be able to bring us to the need for a Creator-god, we cannot prove or demonstrate, beyond a shadow of a doubt by scientific method, that the God we believe in exists, or that Scripture is definitively His message to us, or that the Church speaks for Him either. At some point you and I believe because we perceive His voice speaking though the words of the men who wrote Scripture and also, in my case, through the Church that I believe He established to carry His word to the world. So your choice for believing in Scripture to begin with is a personal, not unbiased one.
 
Very well said. The problem enters in when text is read and seems to fit one’s preferences. Well did Saint Peter write of this in his second letter (3:16). And whose letters were hard to understand so that they were twisted?

Hint: He authored Romans (according to the Catholic Church).

Makes one wonder why the “Romans Road” bible Christians carry that bulky 66 book bible around when they only need Romans. And, here’s the rub! They rarely quote Jesus Christ!

Only Paul - and out of context at that!

Have they read:
1 Corinthians 1:13
Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
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Sadly, many of them are not even baptized - yet claim to be Christians.
 
For clairification, is your explanation for salvation through the sacraments, (from your earlier reply) Rom 2:7; Rom 2:13 and Rom 8:12…?

The question was, where did God explain that the sacraments were needed for salvation…?
 
_jesus_is_god said:
But why did He not tell us straight up “ The sacraments are necessary for salvation. “ if they are.
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"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. "

I have always thought if that as pretty “straight up”
 
1 Corinthians 11:23-34.
For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
(Partaking of the Supper Unworthily)
27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. 31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are chastened so that we may not be condemned along with the world. 33 So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— 34 if any one is hungry, let him eat at home—lest you come together to be condemned. About the other things I will give directions when I come.
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“Weak and ill, and some have died” for remembering poorly? AYKM? No! They failed to discern the Lord’s Body present and are therefore guilty for profaning the Lord’s Body. For 2,000 years, Christians have known that Christ was somehow present in the Holy Eucharist. Why? Because He said so!

If you will not believe Christ, at least believe Paul.
 
This section comprises Paul’s answers to practical questions about which the Corinthians had written him (7:1) in a letter probably delivered by Stephanas, Fortunatus, and Achaicus (16:17). The first of those questions had to do with marriage, an area of trouble due to the moral corruption of the culture which tolerated fornication, adultery, homosexuality, polygamy, and concubinage.

In the context of 1 Cor 11:27, the worldly, carnal church at Corinth had turned those sacred meals into gluttonous, drunken revelries (v. 17; cf. 2 Pet. 2:13). Beyond that, wealthy believers brought ample food and drink for themselves but refused to share, letting their poorer brethren go away hungry (v. 21).

Paul was explaining the results of an unrepentant heart, a spirit of bitterness, or any other ungodly attitude. guilty. To come to the Lord’s Table clinging to one’s sin does not only dishonor the ceremony, but it also dishonors His body and blood, treating lightly the gracious sacrifice of Christ for us. It is necessary to set all sin before the Lord (v. 28), then partake, so as not to mock the sacrifice for sin, by holding on to it.

Additionally, Jesus had referred to himself as Spiritual bread in John 6:35, 41, 48, 51, 67, and certainly not the last, as John says in John 6:63: "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."
 
Not really, with regards the question if the thread it us quite ambiguous. Indeed, from that list, I can only guess that your answer would be no, but only because you seem so reluctant to give am answer.
 
Regarding your comment:
“Not really, with regards the question if the thread it us quite ambiguous. Indeed, from that list, I can only guess that your answer would be no, but only because you seem so reluctant to give am answer.”

Where is this string is your question…?
 
Back to the subject of the thread. Are Sacraments necessary?

They are channels of God’s grace.

Is God’s grace necessary?
 
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