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newbie1234
Guest
I don’t know how you arrive at that conclusion.
Many of your traditions have nothing to do with Jesus.
Assumption, Immaculate conception, infallible papacy, etc.
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Many of your traditions have nothing to do with Jesus.
Assumption, Immaculate conception, infallible papacy, etc.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Let’s look at the Ten Commandments.
Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13For six days you shall labour and do all your work. 14But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God.
Jesus said, we ought to keep the commandment.
What is sin? Any commandment which we break. To make sin mortal three conditions are needed:
- Full acknowledge.
- Full Consent.
- Grave Matter.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
For most Christians, Sunday is the Lord’s day.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Wrong again. As always…
Assumption (Rev 12)Immaculate conception (Luke 1:28 - “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.”)
infallible papacy, etc. (Matthew 16 Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 Matt. 16:17 Matt. 16:18 Matt. 16:19 Matt. 17:24-25
Matt. 17:26-27 Matt. 18:21 ))
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Mannyfit75
Guest
newbie logic seem very illogical… especially the one about the Sabbath… and missing Mass.
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newbie1234
Guest
The sabbath is on Saturday.
So if you think you are upholding the Sabbath commandment by going to church on Sunday, you are mistaken.
The Sabbath commandent is Saturday, not Sunday.
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newbie1234
Guest
So you are saying that the Assumption of Mary has something to do with Jesus?
And somehow, if I believe that Mary was assumed and sinless, that would change my belief in Jesus?
I don’t see how these traditions would change the Saving Knowledge of Jesus on the Cross.
Could you clarify?
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Yes, indeed but the Lord Jesus Christ rise on the first day of the week. That is worship was change Acts 20:7, the disciples came together on the first day of the week (Sunday) to break bread and to hear the preaching of the apostle Paul.
The Catechism states the following;
2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:
Code:
Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.
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teachccd
Guest
WOW!! You just became a Bible interpreter!!! You are your own Magisterium!!! How cool is that???
However, you danced around the verse as all protestants do. Read James 1:4 and take it as literal as you take 2 Timothy 3:16-17. See how you make no sense when you take things without the discernment of the Church who decided the canon of Scripture? Your Scripture was given to you through Sacred Tradition.
Paradosis is the greek word for “handing on”. Paul uses this all the time when speaking to the different communities. See 1 Corinthians 11:23 as one of many examples. Paul didn’t say, " As you find in Scripture, that the Lord Jesus, on the night He was handed over, took bread…" He said , For I received from the Lord what I also handed on (paradosis) to you, that on the night…"
Sacred Tradition (paradosis) is explicitly shown here. Anyway there’s truth and there’s not. I’ll take the 2000 years of truth over a man made sola scriptura doctrine anyday.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Yes, Jesus assumed Mary into heaven as stated in Revelation 12. The woman appeared in Heaven, woman clothed with the sun.
In the OT, the Word of God is carried in the Ark. In the NT, Mary is the type of Ark, whom she carried Jesus, the Word made Flesh. The Ark of the OT is pure. Like the Ark in the NT, God preserved Mary from sin so that she can carry His Son, Jesus Christ. We know Jesus is pure, because he is perfect. I don’t think God will allow a sinful woman to be the mother of his Son.
These traditions are Apostolic in origin. Time and time again, we explain to you the Catholic understanding of the Bible and our belief.
Second, you remain unconvince. Why do you bother come here? It’s not like you can convince us Catholic to believe what you believe.
You might as well leave this forum, which I don’t mind at all.
It is my opinion that Protestants who wish to convert us who come here are wasting their time. Many of the CA Catholic members know enough about the faith, and have seen the errors of Protestantism as Un-Apostolic, not supported in Scripture, and through its many doctrines have different set of beliefs of their own.
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NotWorthy
Guest
No, they are all related to Christ. Didn’t Jesus teach about those that taught from the Chair of Moses. He questioned their ethics, but never their authority.
Jesus gave this authority to the Church, spefically through the Chair of Peter.
I’ve got no problems with those items you listed because they all draw me to Christ!
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newbie1234
Guest
When you read 1James1:2-5 you get something other than whatI stated?WOW!! You just became a Bible interpreter!!! You are your own Magisterium!!! How cool is that???
However, you danced around the verse as all protestants do. Read James 1:4 and take it as literal as you take 2 Timothy 3:16-17. See how you make no sense when you take things without the discernment of the Church who decided the canon of Scripture? Your Scripture was given to you through Sacred Tradition.
Paradosis is the greek word for “handing on”. Paul uses this all the time when speaking to the different communities. See 1 Corinthians 11:23 as one of many examples. Paul didn’t say, " As you find in Scripture, that the Lord Jesus, on the night He was handed over, took bread…" He said , For I received from the Lord what I also handed on (paradosis) to you, that on the night…"
Sacred Tradition (paradosis) is explicitly shown here. Anyway there’s truth and there’s not. I’ll take the 2000 years of truth over a man made sola scriptura doctrine anyday.
I misinterpreted it in some way?
Please elaborate. How did I fail?
Is there some hidden meaning?
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newbie1234
Guest
They draw me away from Jesus as my sole redeemer, advocate, and intercessor.
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newbie1234
Guest
So you agree that you are not following the sabbath commandment when you worship on Sunday?
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Mannyfit75
Guest
It’s no longer binding. Sunday replace Saturday, Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, and the Apostles knew this as mention in Acts.
Therefore to miss Mass with full consent, full acknowledgement, and grave matter is a mortal sin. Jesus granted His Church to be authoritiative.
These teachings are taught not only in the Bible but in the writings of the ECF.
On the Lord’s own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks, but first confess your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure." Didache, 14 (A.D. 90).
“If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death–whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master.” Ignatius, To the Magnesians, 9:1 (A.D. 110).
“The seventh day, therefore, is proclaimed a rest–abstraction from ills–preparing for the Primal Day,[The Lord’s Day] our true rest; which, in truth, is the first creation of light, in which all things are viewed and possessed. From this day the first wisdom and knowledge illuminate us. For the light of truth–a light true, casting no shadow, is the Spirit of God indivisibly divided to all, who are sanctified by faith, holding the place of a luminary, in order to the knowledge of real existences. By following Him, therefore, through our whole life, we become impossible; and this is to rest.” Clement of Alexandria, Stromata, 6:16 (A.D. 202).
“In fine, let him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day because of the threat of death, teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath, or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered “friends of God.” For if circumcision purges a man since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did He not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? At all events, in settling him in paradise, He appointed one uncircumcised as colonist of paradise. Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised, and inobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering Him sacrifices, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was by Him commended; while He accepted what he was offering in simplicity of heart, and reprobated the sacrifice of his brother Cain, who was not rightly dividing what he was offering. Noah also, uncircumcised–yes, and inobservant of the Sabbath–God freed from the deluge. For Enoch, too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and in-observant of the Sabbath, He translated from this world; who did not first taste death, in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might by this time show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God.” Tertullian, An answer to the Jews, 2 (A.D. 203).
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Mannyfit75
Guest
“The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation: because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the lace of the dead and on the first day of the week He arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week He ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week He will appear at last with the angels of heaven.” Teaching of the Apostles, 2 (A.D. 225).
Further Scripture Proof of Sunday
Isaiah 1:13 - God begins to reveal His displeasure with the Sabbath.
Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus’ resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.
Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the “first day of the week.” Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.
1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches “on the first day of the week,” which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.
Col. 2:16-17 - Paul teaches that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ, and says “let no one pass judgment any more over a Sabbath.”
2 Thess. 2:15 - we are to hold fast to apostolic tradition, whether it is oral or written. The 2,000 year-old tradition of the Church is that the apostles changed the Sabbath day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.
Heb. 4:8-9 - regarding the day of rest, if Joshua had given rest, God would not later speak of “another day,” which is Sunday, the new Sabbath. Sunday is the first day of the week and the first day of the new creation brought about by our Lord’s resurrection, which was on Sunday.
Heb. 7:12 - when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law as well. Because we have a new Priest and a new sacrifice, we also have a new day of worship, which is Sunday.
Rev 1:10 - John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord’s day, the new day of rest in Christ.
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. Since the resurrection, Mass has been principally celebrated on Sunday.
Further Scripture Proof of Sunday
Isaiah 1:13 - God begins to reveal His displeasure with the Sabbath.
Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus’ resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.
Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the “first day of the week.” Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.
1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches “on the first day of the week,” which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.
Col. 2:16-17 - Paul teaches that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ, and says “let no one pass judgment any more over a Sabbath.”
2 Thess. 2:15 - we are to hold fast to apostolic tradition, whether it is oral or written. The 2,000 year-old tradition of the Church is that the apostles changed the Sabbath day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.
Heb. 4:8-9 - regarding the day of rest, if Joshua had given rest, God would not later speak of “another day,” which is Sunday, the new Sabbath. Sunday is the first day of the week and the first day of the new creation brought about by our Lord’s resurrection, which was on Sunday.
Heb. 7:12 - when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law as well. Because we have a new Priest and a new sacrifice, we also have a new day of worship, which is Sunday.
Rev 1:10 - John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord’s day, the new day of rest in Christ.
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. Since the resurrection, Mass has been principally celebrated on Sunday.
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newbie1234
Guest
So the commandment to honor the SAbbath has nothing to do with worshipping on Sunday. Does it?
Actually, Sunday worship is a church tradition.
So if I don’t follow your tradition, how can missing mass on Sunday be a mortal sin that would keep me out of heaven?
It definitely doesn’t state in the bible that missing mass on Sunday would keep me out of heaven.
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teachccd
Guest
Not at all. It says that if my perseverance is perfect then I am complete and lacking in nothing. No hidden meaning. I just persevere to perfection and I need nothing else. I’m complete. The same way that 2 Tim 3 16-17 says that Scripture leaves you complete and lacking in nothing. But I don’t know which is more important because either way I’m complete and lacking in nothing.
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newbie1234
Guest
I come here to learn.
I know you will never be able to see my way of thinking.
And I assure you that as long as I stay grounded in biblical truth, I will not pray to Mary or saints, I will not believe the assumption or immaculate conception, and I will not kneel in front of a statue among other things.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
It does. I quoted the Acts that the Apostle break bread on the first day of the week which is a Sunday.
In the early days, the Mass was commonly call the breaking of the bread.
**On the first day of the week when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight. ** Acts 20:7
**On the first day of the week each of you should set aside and save whatever one can afford, so that collections will not be going on when I come. **1 Cor 16:2 (In the Mass, we the faith offer collections just in the Epistles of Paul.)
**Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. **Col 2:16-17 (Paul teaches that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ).
**Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. **2 Thess 2:15 (Paul teaches hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or letters, which is clearly stated in his Epistles. This include Sunday worship).
**For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not speak later of another day. So then, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God; **Hebrew 4:8-9
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. Hebrew 7:12
**“I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet.” **Rev 1:10 John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord’s day, the new day of rest in Christ
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. ((whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. Since the resurrection, Mass has been principally celebrated on Sunday. )) Matthew 16:18-19
Out of curiousity, I take it you no longer worship the Lord on Sunday?
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