Salvation by works? Amen!

[guanophore]

Metanoia means we convert to Christ. In essence, it is the hinge of the Scissor. It is our response to grace. It is the works side of the equation.

Sincerely,

De Maria

!!

So you are saying that the “hinge” is we ourselves?

It is up to us to get ourselves saved?

 

[guanophore]

Exactly the point I was trying to make. I don’t seem to be able to express it with sufficient clarity for the OP to understand.

Your explanation ought to do it. Thanks.

I think not. The OP seems to believe that her works (effort, power, merit, dedication, faith, etc, etc) is more important and critical in the “equation” of salvation than the grace of the
almighty).

 

[De_Maria]

I think not. The OP seems to believe that her works (effort, power, merit, dedication, faith, etc, etc) is more important and critical in the “equation” of salvation than the grace of the
almighty).

Really? When did I say that?

Sounds like a straw man argument. Come on Guano… You are the one watering down Catholic doctrine and you have admitted that you are doing so in order to appease Protestants.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

!!

So you are saying that the “hinge” is we ourselves?

It is up to us to get ourselves saved?

In the sense of metaioia, yes. Who turns? Does God turn or do we?

If it can be said that the “flesh” is the hnge of salvation?

*CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1015 **(303 bytes ) preview document matches
5 “The flesh is the hinge of salvation” (Tertullian, De res. 8, 2: PL 2, 852). We believe in God who is creator of the flesh; we believe in the Word made flesh in
*URL: scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1015.htm

Why not our response to grace?

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

Indeed. You have repeatedly tried to purport that it doesn;t really mean what it says.

That would be you. As I said before, you seem to be telling me that I’m right, but that I should keep it to myself. Your main concern seems not to be the teaching of Catholic doctrine, but the possibility of offending Protestants.

Work, although connected, is not the basis.

You keep using the word “the” in fromt of “basis”. And you keep ignoring my question.

What basis does God use to decide whether we merit heaven?

Obviously you have issues with Catholic doctrine. If you were debating in good faith, you would simply answer the question and swallow your pride. Because that is really all that is standing between your admitting that God is right and that you are wrong.

It is God’s grace that we work for our salvation, whether you like it or not, whether your Protestant friends like it or not.

But not the basis. Jesus’ blood is the basis:

What is the basis of God’s decision whether we merit heaven?

Rom 5:9-11
“Much more surely then, now that we have been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life. 11 But more than that, we even boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

No doubt. But basis did God establish to decide whether we merit heaven?

The privilege to participate is based in grace:

Rom 4:3-6
“For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to one who works, wages are not reckoned as a gift but as something due. 5 But to one who without works trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness. 6 So also David speaks of the blessedness of those to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works…”

Gosh? I didn’t think a Catholic would have to learn this lesson. But I guess I was wrong. Lets see, what does St. Paul mean by reckons righteousness apart from works?

We know that for St. Paul, faith includes works:
Hebrews 11 4 By faith Abel offered to God a sacrifice
7 By faith Noe, … framed the ark for the saving of his house,
8 By faith he that is called Abraham, obeyed to go out into a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

So, obviously, St. Paul believes that Abraham worked.

So what does he mean “apart” from works? Was Abraham circumcised? Was the law of Moses yet established during the time of Abraham?

Could it be that Abraham was accounted righteous before the covenant of circumcision and before the Ten Commandments?

YES!

Now lets read on past the verse you quoted:
6 As David also termeth the blessedness of a man, to whom God reputeth justice without works: 7 Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord hath not imputed sin. 9 This blessedness then, doth it remain in the circumcision only, or in the uncircumcision also? For we say that unto Abraham faith was reputed to justice. *10 How then was it reputed? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? **Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. ***11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the justice of the faith, which he had, being uncircumcised; that he might be the father of all them that believe, being uncircumcised, that unto them also it may be reputed to justice:

There you have it. That is what St. Paul meant. Not that Abraham didn’t work, but that he didn’t yet have any covenants to fulfill since he obeyed God before the covenant of circumcision and the law of Moses.

I will never go back to the misunderstanding of salvation I had as a youth. As a cradle Catholic, I did not understand grace, and was poorly catechized in this area, as most Catholics are still.

You are poorly catechized in this area now. It is the understanding of salvation of your youth to which you need to return.

Today, like the Protestants, you want to tell God how you will be saved. NOT BY MY OWN EFFORTS, you say. YOU MUST SAVE ME.

There’s an old joke. A man is in a flood. He prays for God to save him. A bus comes around, he doesn’t get in, saying, “God will save me.” The water gets deeper but a boat comes around, he doesn’t get in, saying, “God will save me.” A helicopter comes around, he doesn’t get in saying, “God will save me.”

The man drowns. He appears in the pearly gates and demands to see God. God says, “whats the problem?”

I prayed and prayed for you to save me. But you didn’t!

Why sure I did, I sent a bus, a boat and a helicopter.

cont’d

 

[De_Maria]

cont’d

If one works for salvation, then it is considered a wage, and not a gift.

Unless the wage is far out of proportion to the work. Would you consider it a wage, if you say, nailed three boards together and received one million dollars in exchange?

Just so is the exchange for the mealy rags we give the Lord and He gives us in exchange eternal salvation.

Rom 4:2-5
"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to one who works, wages are not reckoned as a gift but as something due. 5 But to one who without works trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness.

Salvation is owed to no one, and it is not our “due” before the Almighty. It is a free gift.

I hope you have understood what St. Paul is getting at in my explanation above. In essence, St. Paul is saying that Father Abraham had no covenant with God, yet he obeyed God.

Its as if you were walking down the street and met a man who said. Hey, I’ve got a proposition for you. Move your family from your house where you have lived these many years and go to India.

Without even a word of hesitation, without a contract, without asking anything in return, you did so.

That is, in essence, how Abraham responded. This is what is RECKONED as righteousness. * Reckoned, accounted.* It wasn’t simply his verbal assent. You might want to read about Abraham, starting when he was called Abram.

Grace alone Catholics sound just as illogical as the faith alone crowd when they say that salvation is not by works.

I agree.

Glad you are studying the heresies.

Ok.

This is not up to you to say. God saves those He wishes. Near me, there is a hospital for disabled children. They are the recipients of other people’s good deeds. None of them can work. I pray for them every day. I do not believe that God has decided not to save them, just because they cannot do good works. In answer to your question, I do not ignore the gift of God’s grace.

You forget that faith itself is a work. You forget that even a smile of friendship is a work. You forget that uniting your suffering to Christ is a work.

Your idea of work is very provincial. You think that work in the theological sense means a job. As though we get up in the morning and say, “OK God, today I’m going to feed three poor people and say my prayers. In exchange, I expect to be saved.”

But you are wrong. Grace is around you 24/7. And God will judge you on every careless word that comes out of your mouth. EVERYONE works. Whether they realize it or not.

I will accept the free gift, and not deceive myself into thinking that I have earned or merited it.

It is you then, who are imposing your conditions on God. God says, “I will render to every man according to his works.” But you say, “Oh no, you’re too good for that God. I know you’ll give me salvation whether I merit it or not.”

Sorry Charlie. I’d rather be saved on God’s terms than on yours.

Yes, but our cooperation with the graces that flow from the blood sacrifice are not the basis of salvation. Only the blood. There is no other name under heaven by which we can be saved, including our own.

Except God said so:
James 5
20 He must know that he who causeth a sinner to be converted from the error of his way, shall save his soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

Yes

Not a bit. Jesus was quite clear that those who believed they were children of Abraham were not necessarily so, whether they thought this of themselves, or not.

Show me.

On the contrary, my faith does not rest on the scripture, but the teaching of Jesus, through the Apostles.

The sacred scripture is not the source of the doctrine, but Christ, who is the fullness of God. All the revelation of God is present in HIm.

The Scripture, valuable as it is, is not the Source of Catholic Teaching. The Source is Christ, through the Apostles. From that Source the NT was created. It is clear in that expression that the basis of salvation is the sacrificial death of Christ on the cross, and not any works or effort of ourselves.

Essentially then you are denying both the Word of God in Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium and imposing your will.

While I will agree that those who fail to bear fruit are cut off, I cannot accept that they were ever members of His Body

So, the Vine is not a metaphor for the Body of Christ? What then?

Not every one who calls Him Lord is a member of His Body. Not any more than one who calls a tail a leg make it a leg.

Again with the tail?

I agree with all these points. Yet, calling Him “Lord” does not make one a branch.

Then you contradict yourself. The correspondence between the two verses is self evident.

Without question. Yet, the ability to bear fruit is not the basis of salvation.

God said so.
Psalms 61
13 And mercy to thee, O Lord; for thou wilt render to every man according to his works.

It is an expression of being saved, not a condition thereof.

God said so:
Proverbs 24
12 If thou say: I have not strength enough: he that seeth into the heart, he understandeth, and nothing deceiveth the keeper of thy soul, and he shall render to a man according to his works.

Whether you like it or not.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[guanophore]

Really? When did I say that?

That is the result of placing anything on par with the blood of Christ.

Sounds like a straw man argument. Come on Guano… You are the one watering down Catholic doctrine and you have admitted that you are doing so in order to appease Protestants.

Sincerely,

De Maria

You have misunderstood me. Apparently you have assumed that, since I say that grace is the only basis for salvation, that I have no use for works.

You imagine me to be arguing from a point I do not hold, which you have called “grace alone”.

This has nothing to do with “appeasing Protestants”. In fact, of the 23 Rites of the Church, it has been primarily the Latin Rite that has suffered the Protestants. I will be so bold as to state that this has happened because of the corruption of the Latin clergy in Europe at the time of the Reformation. The Latin Rite in Europe sadly has reaped what they sowed, and now have to face the effects of the Reformation, one of them being the heresy of “grace alone”.

This malady has never infected the Eastern Rites, and the proper perspective of salvation and the relationship of works in it was never distorted as it was in Reformed Europe.

The work of CAF is to answer questions about the faith. These questions come from poorly catechized Catholics as well as protestants. In the case of protestants especially, most of them have been misled about what the Catholic Church teaches. Correcting these errors often requires that one confine oneself to Scripture only, since that is their self imposed limitation. There are also problems of language, since Catholic soteriology conceives of salvation as past, present and future, while the OSAS crowd have widely spread heresies to the contrary.

Correcting heretical thinking is not “appeasement”, but a modern challenge for every faithful Catholic. This correction will be much more difficult, in my opinion, if you use the language and framework that you have been purporting on this thread. I say this based on many years of experience.

However, of course, each one must do what is right in her own eyes, and if this is the tact that you feel let to take, then, as I have said - good luck with that.

 

[ernie67]

Yeah,
I think any mention of work to a protestant and they will bolt. I have tried to explain to some of my protestant friends but they are not open to the work part of salvation.
What is odd is that protestant are doing a lot of good works like reading scripture and helping others but they just do not see how it fits with the Lords plan of salvation.
Unfortunately God can’t just use a screw to join us to grace because he gave us free will.
When it come to salvation the Lord can’t force us to salvation like we can forcibly screw two blades to make a scissor.
The analogy of the scissors only goes so far since we are not inanimate object but it is a good initial analogy. We must cooperate with grace.

God bless,

Ernie

 

[BRB]

The Council of Trent

*On the necessity, in adults, of preparation for Justification, and whence it proceeds:

The Synod furthermore declares, that in adults, the beginning of the said Justification is to be derived from the prevenient grace of God, through Jesus Christ, that is to say, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits existing on their parts, they are called; that so they, who by sins were alienated from God, may be disposed through His quickening and assisting grace, to convert themselves to their own justification, by freely assenting to and co-operating with that said grace: in such sort that, while God touches the heart of man by the illumination of the Holy Ghost, neither is man himself utterly without doing anything while he receives that inspiration*, forasmuch as he is also able to reject it; yet is he not able, by his own free will, without the grace of God, to move himself unto justice in His sight. Whence, when it is said in the sacred writings: Turn ye to me, and I will turn to you, we are admonished of our liberty; and when we answer; Convert us, O Lord, to thee, and we shall be converted, we confess that we are prevented by the grace of God.

Certainly the primary basis for our salvation is the sacrifice of Christ. But Christ has willed that our salvation is also based on our works.

De Maria …

I commend you for starting this thread

Recently here on CAF … we argued this issue from the Faith alone … protestant perspective. And the protestants almost won the debate.

Its good to see that Pax and Guanophore are standing pat on insisting our salvations are by [Grace - through Faith, and that not of ourselves, but the gift of God].

Still, works are part & parcel to our salvations. The hardest work I’ve ever done in my life was offering up my ‘free will’ to Christ … at the time I prayed the sinner’s prayer and received my first grace from Christ.

However, in restrospect … I could never of made that commitment w/o inspiration and help of H.S. So, even my finest ‘work’ was enabled by God.

As long as you see your works for Christ as inspired and enabled by him … I don’t think you err. As long as you give Christ all the glory and credit … he will readily accept your gracious works. Indeed, these are the works James speaks of … our postconversion works are honorable and blessed by Christ.

They are the fruits that God looks for … when he tends his garden tree of life each day. They are also the basis upon which some of our heavenly rewards are determined on.

 

[BRB]

Really? When did I say that?

Come on Guano… You are the one watering down Catholic doctrine and you have admitted that you are doing so in order to appease Protestants.

Ok … I just came across this one now.

Guano … are you watering down Catholic doctrine to appease MD & Sandman — perhaps.

Seriously, Pax and Guano are usually right-on target.
Assume they are right until proven otherwise.

 

[JustaServant]

I have never met anyone, devout Catholic or devout Protestant, in their right mind, who believes they are “working their way to salvation.”
This is the kind of uninformed view that gives ammunition to fundamentalists.

 

[BRB]

All is grace. Grace is the basis of everything. Including your existence. Within the framework of grace, there are elements on which God bases His decisions. And one of those is our cooperation with His Grace. One of those is our works.

God has told us His formula. We must cooperate with His Grace and perform good works.

All is not grace.

Now, regarding His Formula: You surely admit the thief on cross was saved ? What good works did he perform in order to gain favor of Christ ?

At most, all we could say is Christ allowed his final agony After his Salvation event] to serve as Penance. But, when you think about it … did that thief even need to serve penance ?

Christ forgave him of ALL prior sins …base solely on his Faith in Jesus as his Messiah. Now Christ died before the thief died.
Yet Christ told him that he would see him in Paradise that very day.

So … IMO, Christ taught S.A. on this occasion. The thief could of changed his mind, and later denounced Christ before his death … like the other thief was doing. But, Christ told the gracious thief his future was SECURE in him.

 

[BRB]

Yes. The privelege to work for my salvation.

Grace alone Catholics sound just as illogical as the faith alone crowd when they say that salvation is not by works.

I’d say its the EXPECTATION of Christ that those he graces solely on basis of their initial Faith … will put down strong roots into him, and grow, demonstrating/reflecting the good works he prescribes to us … those ‘befitting’ of our high calling in him.

Why do you think this second sentence above ? Faithful, gracious Catholics are the only ones which will continue doing good works appointed/approved/enabled by God thru H.S. to us.

 

[BRB]

Having worked in a cancer hospital and having known, personally, a few cancer victims, I believe your conclusion is mistaken.

Those who suffer through chemo therapy and are cured, have definitely worked for their cure.

Try this one then …

You have a early pancreatic cancer on CT scan. Biopsy proves it beyond dispute. Doctors tell you your only hope is surgery to remove tail of pancreas where cancer is localized.

You trust your doctor’s judgment. You decide to accept his confident ‘salvation’ assurance you can be fully cured, by surgery alone.

Can you do any works to cure yourself ? You believe not, so you put yourself into the hands of the surgeon. You allow the Surgeon to Work your cure for you.

Christ is the Great Physician … in all matters of soul, heart, spirit, AND Body for that matter. The doctor only does God’s work for him.

So … you go to sleep … and awake to find your fatal tumor is no more. And you have a scar to prove your Faith in that surgeon’s skills.

So, being grateful forever more … you thank your doctor exceeding, and gladly pay his bill to you.

Finally, are you required to pay your bill for surgery ahead of time ? Never, alway after your cure … do you get the bill. And thats only if you have the means to pay it. Charity is always a medical consideration.

 

[mikeledes]

What basis does God use to decide whether we merit heaven?

Obviously you have issues with Catholic doctrine. If you were debating in good faith, you would simply answer the question and swallow your pride. Because that is really all that is standing between your admitting that God is right and that you are wrong.

It is God’s grace that we work for our salvation, whether you like it or not, whether your Protestant friends like it or not.

What is the basis of God’s decision whether we merit heaven?

No doubt. But basis did God establish to decide whether we merit heaven?

Gosh? I didn’t think a Catholic would have to learn this lesson. But I guess I was wrong. Lets see, what does St. Paul mean by reckons righteousness apart from works?

I do not believe you are accurately presenting the Catholic Church teaching on works and its relationship to salvation. First of all, in Catholic theology, “merit” depends on receiving the gift of final perseverance (living and dying in a state of grace). If you do not receieve this gift, there are no merits. This gift is not given on the basis of works. That’s why you can have a person who’s was in a state of grace, did many good works, but fails to persevere and does not go to heaven and have someone who has a deathbead conversion and goes to heaven.

Moreover, the Catholic Church teaches the following regarding predestination:

We shall return to this point. But in any case, from this minimum admitted by all we get three propositions to which all Catholic theologians subscribe. They are: (1) Predestination to the first grace is not because God foresaw our naturally good works, nor is the beginning of salutary acts due to natural causes; (2) predestination to glory is not because God foresaw we would continue in the performance of supernaturally meritorious acts apart from the special gift of final perseverance; (3) complete predestination, in so far as it comprises the whole series of graces from the first up to glorification, is gratuitous or previous to foreseen merits. These three propositions are admitted by all Catholic theologians.

This is from:

thesumma.info/predestination/predestination4.php

See also:

thecatholicfaith.com/Teachings/predestination.htm

For Thomism see:

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/TULIP.htm

For Molinsim see:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism

newadvent.org/cathen/10437a.htm

That last article on Molinism from the Catholic Encyclopedia states:

Guided by this scientia media God is left entirely free in the disposition and distribution of grace. On His good pleasure alone it depends to whom He will give the supreme grace of final perseverance, to whom He will refuse it; whom He will receive into Heaven, whom He will exclude from His sight for ever. This doctrine is in perfect harmony with the dogmas of the gratuity of grace, the unequal distribution of efficacious grace, the wise and inscrutable operations of Divine Providence, the absolute impossibility to merit final perseverance, and lastly the immutable predestination to glory or rejection; nay more, it brings these very dogmas into harmony, not only with the infallible foreknowledge of God, but also with the freedom of the created will.

Complete predestination from grace to glory is not on the basis of foreseen merits.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[BRB]

:

Jesus says they are:
2 Every branch in me, that beareth not fruit,

Read verse 2. Those branches are IN HIM also. And beareth not fruit.

Here’s what Jesus is saying:

1. If you are IN HIM and bear not fruit, you will be cut off.
2. If you are IN HIM and bear fruit, you will be pruned and bear more.
3. If you are IN HIM and want to continue bearing fruit, you must remain IN HIM. Because without Him you are not going to bear fruit.

Therefore, not everyone who is IN HIM will bear fruit. And they will be cut off because they don’t bear fruit.

Faith and Works go hand in hand. Think of it like this.

When we first come to Christ, as new believers, and are justified and graced … it is OUR faith & CHRIST’S work (on cross). This be STEP # 1.

Now … everything after this point is STEP #2. That period which Christ is referring to in the Parable above. And, that which James refers to in his Epistle.

Faith = Works now applys. Our faith = our works … enabled in us by Christ. The fruit we must demonstrate … if we are to remain attached to Christ’s tree of life. If we don’t put down our roots into Christ … we divorce ourselves from our Lord, a schism, a non-union occurs. When we are not united with Christ … we risk APOSTASY, and having our lives ‘cut off’ from the tree of life.

Sounds like you are saying/thinking Step 2, then more Step 2. … you are doing the Texas 2 step.

 

[guanophore]

In the sense of metaioia, yes. Who turns? Does God turn or do we?

Do you somehow imagine this is possible without grace? Humans can spin all day in the wind, yet without grace it will avail nothing.

If it can be said that the “flesh” is the hnge of salvation?

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1015 (303 bytes ) preview document matches
5 “The flesh is the hinge of salvation” (Tertullian, De res. 8, 2: PL 2, 852). We believe in God who is creator of the flesh; we believe in the Word made flesh in
URL: scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1015.htm

Jesus modeled the incarnational principle. He does intend for us to be saved in and through our flesh. However, it is only His flesh and blood that can save. Our flesh can only be redeemed when joined with His,.

Titus 3:3-8
“But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, through the water of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. 6 This Spirit he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

In baptism, we join with Him in His death and resurrection. Our bodies become united with His Body. It is His grace that does this. His lovingkindness is the basis.

Why not our response to grace?

Sincerely,

De Maria

Because that would give us cause for boasting.

That would be you. As I said before, you seem to be telling me that I’m right, but that I should keep it to myself.

No, I said that the manner in which you are trying to present your point is, in my opinion, not conducive to the evangelistic task at hand. Many Protestants already wrongly think that Catholicism is a 'works based salvation" (as if any such thing could exist). They have a misunderstanding of the place of works in God’s plan of salvation. This method you are using to explain it is counterproductive.

 Your main concern seems not to be the teaching of Catholic doctrine, but the possibility of offending Protestants.

Contributing to misunderstanding of others in not a loving act. We are to give account of the hope that is within us in a loving manner. It is not about giving offense, it is about presenting ourselves in love. It is not an act of charity to confirm our brothers in error.

You keep using the word "the" in fromt of "basis".

Yes.

And you keep ignoring my question. [/qutoe]

I have not ignored your question. I have noted that your references to the judgement ( the fruit of ones deeds) seems to leave out the state of grace.

What basis does God use to decide whether we merit heaven?

Whether we are clothed in white. If we are not wearing the appropriate garment, we will be thrown out of the wedding.

Obviously you have issues with Catholic doctrine. If you were debating in good faith, you would simply answer the question and swallow your pride. Because that is really all that is standing between your admitting that God is right and that you are wrong.

Thank you for this judgement.

I must say, your apologetic method leaves something to be desired.

 It is God's grace that we work for our salvation, whether you like it or not, whether your Protestant friends like it or not.

Each must do what is right in his own eyes. If you wish to work for that which God gives for free, then this is between you and your Creator.

What is the basis of God’s decision whether we merit heaven?

“To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood…” Rev 1:5-6

Those who have been freed from sin by His blood.

 

[onenow1]

Indeed, but realize that they were sheep and goats first. The sheep did good works BECAUSE they were sheep, and those who did not BECAUSE they were goats. The good works flow from our identity in Christ, and this is established on the basis of grace.

Hi, All Maybe some help here ? Matthew 25​

37 Then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' 40 And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’
41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’
45 Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’

What is interesting is that the sheep did not know they were, doing good deeds work]. And the goats thought they were .
:twocents

Peace, OneNow1

 

[guanophore]

I have never met anyone, devout Catholic or devout Protestant, in their right mind, who believes they are “working their way to salvation.”
This is the kind of uninformed view that gives ammunition to fundamentalists.

This is all I am saying. The use of such language is misleading to American Fundamentalists, and prone to cause misunderstanding. I think there are more effective ways to present the Apostolic message that will not lend themselves to error as that phrase tends to do.