Salvation by works? Amen!

[De_Maria]

Hi,
When parents and godparents do not teach their children how to say prayers read the bible and know about God it is a huge problem. I have taught prayer classes for first communion at my church and the children know virtually nothing about our faith. The parents just drop them off and expect that the church do all the work. Unfortunately we need parents to be involved that does not happen when the parents are non practicing.
Parents are abdicating the responsibility and work to others. The same is happening in our school system. Parents expect the schools and teachers to give their children an education but do little or nothing to help their children.
Often teachers and the school system are blamed by parents if their child fails but not the parents.
It’s all fine and dandy that we want our children educated and to “get the sacraments” but not investing time and taking up the responsibility and work are not something to cheer about.
I am all for education and religion but there is a real failure when parents fail to do the work necessary for education and religion.

God Bless,

Ernie

This is true. I personally believe the Church should educate the adults and put the responsibility on the parents to catechize their children. Then, test the children to make sure the parents did their job.

I also believe that as parents, we are the people responsible for the education of our children. That is why, my wife and I have homeschooled our children.

Anyway, as a Catechist, it is impossible to adequately teach a child one hour a week and when they go home and don’t live the faith.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[mikeledes]

As I said to someone else, you guys are viewing works provincially. As though the only works that matter are the corporal works of mercy. As though the only works of God which matter are to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and such. The works of God are anything which we must do in obedience to God.

Faith itself, simply believing in God, is a work:
John 6 28 They said therefore unto him: What shall we do, that we may work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered, and said to them: This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he hath sent.

Note that the people ask Jesus, what must we do in order to do the works of God?

And Jesus answers, “This is the work of God, BELIEVE in me.”

In other words, simultaneously, if we believe Jesus, we do the work of God which empowers us to do the works of God. And thats before we are even baptized. Baptism follows belief in Jesus. It is obedience to His Word.

Therefore, Baptism is a work of faith. One must BELIEVE AND BE BAPTIZED in order to be saved:
Mark 16
16 He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.

Note the order of this conjoined statement. If one believes then he obeys and is baptized he is saved.

If one does not believe, then he is not baptized and is condemned. That is why baptism is not even mentioned in the second part of this statement.

AND it is not, believe and be saved. The work of obedience which contains the mystery of grace, the Sacrament known as Baptism must take place before we are saved.

And thats just the beginning, many more works follow. The corporal works of mercy which I mentioned above and many more.

It is the framework of Grace which God established.

1. God calls us and gives us the prevenient actual assisting and initial grace to repent. This is the initial call to justification. (Grace).
2. We respond by:
   a. refusing that grace. (self condemnation by works).
   b. accepting that grace. (preparation for justification by prayer, obedience, and other works.)
3. Believing we are baptized and are infused by sanctifying grace which is the WORK OF GOD. God alone justifies us. He cleanses our soul and makes us righteous. This is the gift which we merit by our obedience.
4. Then we must work to maintain that justification or if we lose it, to re establish it. (Sacraments of Penance and Eucharist).
5. Finally we come to our last rites (annointing and viaticum) death and true salvation which is eternal life if we have persevered in good works to the end.

So it seems very simple to me.

1. God gives man a gift, salvation. (Salvation by grace)
2. Which He says man must work to receive. (Salvation by works).

Both grace and works. Not either grace or works.

You guys say that is payment. That is not true.

Example:
Millions of people cross the street at 401 7th Ave in New York everyday. But none of them get the prize for crossing the very same street during the New York Marathon.

Why? Its the very same street?
Because they weren’t running for the prize.

In the very same way, God gives the gift of salvation to THOSE WHO SEEK IT BY PATIENCE IN WELL DOING. (cc#56)

Sincerely,

De Maria

Works of Mercy (Spiritual and Corporal) are considered meritorious works when they are done by a person who is already in a state of grace.

Baptism is not a meritorious work because it is through this Sacrament that God infuses sanctifying grace into our souls, and without this sanctifying grace there can be no merit.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

I don’t think so. I think you’ve misunderstood sanctifying grace. Please point out where “initial grace of justification” is “the infusion of sanctifying grace.”

Sanctifying grace is infused in Baptism.

As you already know, the Catholic understanding of justification is that it is progressive, not a one time act. Justification is also the infusion of sanctifying grace, making our souls pleasing in God’s sight. So when the Catechism refers to to “initial grace”, it is referring to the initial infusion of sanctifying grace. There are no meritorious works prior to justification:

**Rather, St. Paul teaches us, we must approach God on a personal level, with faith and sincere contrition for our sins, that is, detestation for our sins for the primary reason that hey are offensive to God, the beloved. God will, in turn, graciously forgive us, make us a new creation, infuse us with supernatural virtues, and credit them to our account as righteousness. Of course, as faith is the “foundation and the root of all justification” (Council of Trent, Decree on Justification, Ch. VIII), and man possesses no meritorious works prior to justification (all he has beforehand are his own works, which can never justify, cf. Pope St. Clement, Epistle to the Corinthians, Ch. XXXII), **

pugiofidei.com/logizomai.htm

The Catholic Encyclopedia clearly states that merit depends on being in a state of grace. So the initial infusion of sanctifying grace cannot be based on meritorious works. BTW, not every work is meritorious.

**Since the meritoriousness of good works supposes the state of justification, or, what amounts to the same, the possession of sanctifying grace, supernatural merit is only an effect or fruit of the state of grace (cf. Council of Trent, Sess. VI, cap. xvi). **

God Bless,
Michael

 

[De_Maria]

As you already know, the Catholic understanding of justification is that it is progressive, not a one time act.

Correct.

Justification is also the infusion of sanctifying grace,

Which according to Revelation and Catholic Teaching, occurs in Baptism.

making our souls pleasing in God’s sight.

Correct.

So when the Catechism refers to to “initial grace”, it is referring to the initial infusion of sanctifying grace.

At this point we disagree. The initial grace is the actual assisting grace which leads to justification. It is not the initial infusion of sanctifying grace:

**2010 **Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion…

Trent is clearer:
The Synod furthermore declares, that in adults,** the beginning of the said Justification **is to be derived from the prevenient [Page 33] grace of God, through Jesus Christ, that is to say, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits existing on their parts, they are called; that so they, who by sins were alienated from God, may be disposed through His quickening and assisting grace, to convert themselves to their own justification, by freely assenting to and co-operating with that said grace:…

There are no meritorious works prior to justification:

**Rather, St. Paul teaches us, we must approach God on a personal level, with faith and sincere contrition for our sins, that is, detestation for our sins for the primary reason that hey are offensive to God, the beloved. God will, in turn, graciously forgive us, make us a new creation, infuse us with supernatural virtues, and credit them to our account as righteousness. Of course, as faith is the “foundation and the root of all justification” (Council of Trent, Decree on Justification, Ch. VIII), and man possesses no meritorious works prior to justification **(all he has beforehand are his own works, which can never justify, cf. Pope St. Clement, Epistle to the Corinthians, Ch. XXXII),

pugiofidei.com/logizomai.htm

What you just quoted says that our sins are detestable to God.

The Catholic Encyclopedia clearly states that merit depends on being in a state of grace. So the initial infusion of sanctifying grace cannot be based on meritorious works. BTW, not every work is meritorious.

Lets break it down:

**Since the meritoriousness of good works supposes the state of justification, or,

what amounts to the same,

the possession of sanctifying grace, supernatural merit is only an effect or fruit of the state of grace (cf. Council of Trent, Sess. VI, cap. xvi). **

God Bless,
Michael

So, because it would be a vicious circle to say that one can’t merit until one is justified, God permits those who will to be justified to merit justification by their desire to be justified and their perseverence in good works.

Otherwise, no one would ever be converted. Because, their turning to God, their converting, their faith, a meritorious work, would be detestable in God’s eyes.

And Scripture shows, that even before Baptism, before justification a man can be pleasing to God:
Acts Of Apostles 10
22 Who said: **Cornelius, a centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, **and having good testimony from all the nation of the Jews, received an answer of an holy angel, to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[BRB]

And Scripture shows, that even before Baptism, before justification a man can be pleasing to God:
Acts Of Apostles 10
22 Who said: Cornelius, a centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and having good testimony from all the nation of the Jews, received an answer of an holy angel, to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Yes, I’d say a man can be ‘pleasing to God’ before being redeemed … as was the case of Cornelius.

However, Cornelius was GOD FEARING, he was JUST, and treating his neighbors as he himself desired to be treated.

And, he had obviously been praying for deliverance …and God sent one to tell him of Christ and salvation graces.

Same was the case of Noah … and Abram.

 

[mikeledes]

Which according to Revelation and Catholic Teaching, occurs in Baptism.

No one is denying that. However, the Council of Trent clearly teaches that Baptism is the instrumental cause of justification and that Jesus Christ is the meritorious cause of justification.

At this point we disagree. The initial grace is the actual assisting grace which leads to justification. It is not the initial infusion of sanctifying grace:

**2010 **Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion…

What you just quoted says that our sins are detestable to God.

So, because it would be a vicious circle to say that one can’t merit until one is justified, God permits those who will to be justified to merit justification by their desire to be justified and their perseverence in good works.

Otherwise, no one would ever be converted. Because, their turning to God, their converting, their faith, a meritorious work, would be detestable in God’s eyes.

And Scripture shows, that even before Baptism, before justification a man can be pleasing to God:
Acts Of Apostles 10
22 Who said: Cornelius, a centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and having good testimony from all the nation of the Jews, received an answer of an holy angel, to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Let me quote James Akin, who quotes the Council of Trent:

**The eighth chapter explains why justification is said to be by faith and grace. It is said to be by faith in the sense that faith is "the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God . . . " On the other hand, justification is said to be by grace “because none of those things which precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.”

As a result, Trent teaches that our initial justification, by which we come to and are accepted by God, is not merited by us in anyway by anything we do, whether an act of faith or works. It is intrinsically impossible (as we shall see later, in our discussion of Trent’s chapter sixteen) for an unjustified person to merit justification, therefore our justification is not merited by anything we do leading up to it. This makes explicit what was taught in chapter seven: that Christ, not us, is the meritorious cause of our justification.**

cin.org/users/james/files/justcath.htm

And let me give you what the Coucnil of Trent states in unadulterated form:

**CHAPTER VIII.
In what manner it is to be understood, that the impious is justified by faith, and gratuitously.

And whereas the Apostle saith, that man is justified by faith and freely, those words are to be understood in that sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed; to wit, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and the root of all Justification; without which it is impossible to please God, and to come unto the fellowship of His sons: but we are therefore said to be justified freely, because that none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace. **

I don’t think Trent can be any clearer. Nothing preceding justification - whether faith or works - merits justification. For if this were so, then grace would no longer be grace.

Chapter 9 of the Council of Trent also states:

For, whereas Jesus Christ Himself continually infuses his virtue into the said justified,-as the head into the members, and the vine into the branches,-and this virtue always precedes and accompanies and follows their good works, which without it could not in any wise be pleasing and meritorious before God,

To whom is the virtue of Christ continually infused according to the Council of Trent? To the justified, those who have been engrafted into the True Vine. Only those who have already been justified can be a branch of the True Vine. Works are meritorious after we have been engrafted into the True Vine.

The Catechism clearly states that the supernatural quality and meritoriousness of works are the fruits of union with Christ, and this union does not occur before justification. It occurs when we are justified:

2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. the saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

Lets break it down:

**Since the meritoriousness of good works supposes the state of justification, or,

what amounts to the same,**

the possession of sanctifying grace, supernatural merit is only an effect or fruit of the state of grace (cf. Council of Trent, Sess. VI, cap. xvi).

So, because it would be a vicious circle to say that one can’t merit until one is justified, God permits those who will to be justified to merit justification by their desire to be justified and their perseverence in good works.

I don’t understand your breaking down of the quote. What it is saying is that being in a state of justification and possessing sanctifying grace amounts to the same thing. Justification is the infusion of sanctifying grace. Without this infusion, there are no meritorious works. And the links that I have given are orthodox in their teaching.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

Trent is clearer:
The Synod furthermore declares, that in adults,** the beginning of the said Justification **is to be derived from the prevenient [Page 33] grace of God, through Jesus Christ, that is to say, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits existing on their parts, they are called; that so they, who by sins were alienated from God, may be disposed through His quickening and assisting grace, to convert themselves to their own justification, by freely assenting to and co-operating with that said grace:…

BTW, cooperate does not always mean merit. An adult cooperates with God’s grace by having himself baptized and thus receive sanctifying grace. But baptism is not a meritorious work. It is the instrumental cause of justification, not the meritorious cause.

Also, the Catholic Encyclopedia says the following about merit:

** The agent who merits must fulfil two conditions : He must be in the state of pilgrimage (status viœ ) and in the state of grace ( status gratiœ ). By the state of pilgrimage is to be understood our earthly life; death as a natural (although not an essentially necessary ) limit, closes the time of meriting. The time of sowing is confined to this life; the reaping is reserved for the next, when no man will be able to sow either wheat or cockle. Comparing the earthly life with day and the time after death with night, Christ says: “The night cometh, when no man can work operari ]” ( John 9:4 ; cf. Ecclesiastes 11:3 ; Sirach 14:17 ). The opinion proposed by a few theologians (Hirscher, Schell), that for certain classes of men there may still be a possibility of conversion after death, is contrary to the revealed truth that the particular judgment ( judicium particulare ) determines instantly and definitively whether the future is to be one of eternal happiness or of eternal misery (cf. Kleutgen, “Theologie der Vorzeit”, II, 2nd ed., Münster, 1872, pp. 427 sqq.). Baptized children, who die before attaining the age of reason, are admitted to heaven without merits on the sole title of inheritance ( titulus hœreditatis ); in the case of adults, however, there is the additional title of reward ( titulus mercedis ), and for that reason they will enjoy a greater measure of eternal happiness.

In addition to the state of pilgrimage, the state of grace (i.e., the possession of sanctifying grace ) is required for meriting, because only the just can be "sons of God " and "heirs of heaven " (cf. Romans 8:17 ). In the parable of the vine Christ expressly declares the “abiding in him” a necessary condition for “bearing fruit”: “He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit” ( John 15:5 ); and this constant union with Christ is effected only by sanctifying grace . **

You must be in a state of grace in order to merit. A person is not in a state of grace (possessing sanctifying grace) *prior *to justification because being justified means being infused with sanctifying grace and hence being in a state of grace. Hence there is no merit prior to justification and hence you cannot merit initial justification.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[De_Maria]

The fact that God maintainus us in a state of grace and our merits is not a denial of the cooperation of the will.

Merit, De Maria, depends upon reception of the grace of final perseverance. It does not matter how many good works you do. If you do not receive this grace ( living and dying in a state of grace), your merits will be on no value. The Church clearly teaches that this grace is beyond our meriting power:

**That we can never in this life be certain of our final perseverance is defined by the Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xvi): “Si quis magnum illud usque in finem perseverantiae donum se certo habiturum, absoluta et infallibili certitudine dixerit, nisi hoc ex speciali revelatione dedicerit, anathema sit”. What places it beyond our meriting power **is the obvious fact that revelation nowhere offers final perseverance, with it retinue of efficacious graces and its crown of a good death, as a reward for our actions, but, on the contrary, constantly reminds us that, as the Council of Trent puts it, “the gift of perseverance can come only from Him who has the power to confirm the standing and to raise the fallen”.

newadvent.org/cathen/11711a.htm

God Bless,
Michael

Sounds as though you are correct about initial justification. I was reading Trent as saying that the initial call to justification was not merited. But then, by cooperating with that grace, converting and continuing in good works, one would seek Baptism and thus merit justification through Baptism.

From what you have posted, I believe that is wrong.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

No one denies that. The problem is that you have said that the initial infusion of sanctifying grace - which in Catholic teaching is justification - is merited by works. That is not Catholic teaching. The Catechism clearly states that true merit depends on first being adopted as a child of God:

2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God’s gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us “co-heirs” with Christ and worthy of obtaining "the promised inheritance of eternal life."60 The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness.61 "Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God’s gifts.

**2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ **in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.

The supernatural qualities of our acts and their merit before God derive from the fact that we are united to Christ first in justification.

God Bless,
Michael

OK. Now I’m wondering how Abram and Cornelius and others, were considered just BEFORE Baptism.

If it was not due to their faith and their works in obedience to God’s grace, why else would they be considered just from amongst the pagans with which they lived?

Here’s my line of thought.

Sts. James and Paul seem to blatantly contradict each other.

Yet we know that they don’t. So I figured they must have different definitions of work.

By works, I assumed St. Paul meant before circumcision, the Ten Commandments and Baptism. And I further assumed that he didn’t include in his definition of works, the obedience of faith which Abram so clearly demonstrated.

Whereas, I assumed that is all which St. James was talking about when he said that Abraham was justified by works. Because Abram demonstrated the obedience of faith for years before he was called just by God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

OK Mike. I’ve read the Council of Trent again and I believe I have identified your error.

Oh and for the meantime, I have to take back my previous message in which I said:
*Sounds as though you are correct about initial justification…
*
It may turn out that you are correct in the end. But for the meantime, please ignore that message.

Here is the key statement in Trent which I believe colors everything which you have said about not being able to merit before Justification:
Canon 7.
If anyone says that all works done before justification, in whatever manner they may be done, are truly sins, or merit the hatred of God; that the more earnestly one strives to dispose himself for grace, the more grievously he sins, let him be anathema.

Having said that, I will respond to all your messages. One at a time.

The fact that God maintainus us in a state of grace and our merits is not a denial of the cooperation of the will.

No it isn’t.

Merit, De Maria, depends upon reception of the grace of final perseverance.

No it doesn’t.

Merit depends upon cooperation with God’s grace.

It does not matter how many good works you do. If you do not receive this grace ( living and dying in a state of grace), your merits will be on no value.

In the end. In other words, your merits will be wasted FOR YOU. But your merits will not be wasted for those for whom you have prayed who do received the grace of final perseverence.

In other words, if you pray that John is released from purgatory or if you pray that Mary is healed while you are justified, but you fall into mortal sin and persist in mortal sin to the end, your merits are lost for yourself. But your merits for John and Mary are not lost unless they also fall from grace and persist in that state to the end.

The Church clearly teaches that this grace is beyond our meriting power:

That is correct.

**That we can never in this life be certain of our final perseverance is defined by the Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xvi): “Si quis magnum illud usque in finem perseverantiae donum se certo habiturum, absoluta et infallibili certitudine dixerit, nisi hoc ex speciali revelatione dedicerit, anathema sit”. What places it beyond our meriting power **is the obvious fact that revelation nowhere offers final perseverance, with it retinue of efficacious graces and its crown of a good death, as a reward for our actions, but, on the contrary, constantly reminds us that, as the Council of Trent puts it, “the gift of perseverance can come only from Him who has the power to confirm the standing and to raise the fallen”.
newadvent.org/cathen/11711a.htm

That is correct.

The way to understand this is that the Church does not teach absolute assurance. Obviously we merit final perseverence by persevering to the end:
**CHAPTER X
THE INCREASE OF THE JUSTIFICATION RECEIVED
**Having, therefore, been thus justified and made the friends and domestics of God,[49] advancing from virtue to virtue,[50] they are renewed, as the Apostle says, day by day,[51] that is, mortifying the members[52] of their flesh, and presenting them as instruments of justice unto sanctification,[53] they, through the observance of the commandments of God and of the Church, faith cooperating with good works, increase in that justice received through the grace of Christ and are further justified, as it is written:
He that is just, let him be justified still;[54] and, Be not afraid to be justified even to death;[55] and again, Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?[56]

God Bless,
Michael

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[lofktis14kr]

We need to be very careful about the way we speak of these things. People can get the wrong impression. We like to imagine that we and all people are good natured, and that everybody is getting to Heaven by their own boot straps, etc…

Even those who profess to be Christians are easily misled. For instance, we read in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians, the last half is all about do this or do that. And our tendency is to walk away from reading about duty and say, “alright no problem, here I go.” As if we are sufficient in ourselves to any good whatsoever.

Yes, the Bible says works are important, and from a human standpoint we are responsible to believe and repent. But let us not lose sight of God’s standpoint.

For instance, getting back to Ephesians, the last half is all about duty, what we must and need to do. But the first half is all about what God has done. Indicatives preceed imperatives. This is the Biblical norm. God calls men to act based on what He has done, and that apart from His doing, we can and will do nothing.

Ephesians chapter 1. "My prayer is that you would be enlightened to the power of God toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He wrought in Christ Jesus when He raised Him from the dead…(chapter 2) For when we were dead in trespasses and sins, He hath quickened us together with Christ…Chapter 3 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, that… he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, …that you may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

To say that we are saved by works, implies that we deserve some of the praise for our salvation, when in reality all the praise belongs to the almighty God who delivered us from spiritual death in the first place. In Revelation, you don’t find anyone patting themselves on the back. No, they are lost in the wonder of God’s immeasurable grace to them through the Lamb was slain.

 

[De_Maria]

No one denies that.

Some do Mike. That is why I’m on this forum challenging that idea.

However, I have to thank you for your thought provoking messages. Your arguments were almost unassailable. In fact, you had me convinced that I was wrong about initial justification and I had to meditate quite a bit upon what you said.

It may turn out that you are right after all, but I believe I have identified your error, therefore, please bear with me for a bit more before I concede, if it turns out that you are right.

The problem is that you have said that the initial infusion of sanctifying grace - which in Catholic teaching is justification - is merited by works.

That is not Catholic teaching. The Catechism clearly states that true merit depends on first being adopted as a child of God:

True merit is condign merit. The true, condign merit of Jesus Christ is bestowed. Before the merit of Jesus Christ is bestowed upon us, all we have is congruous merit. This is the merit which leads to justification.

Psalms 118
112 I have inclined my heart to do thy justifications for ever, for the reward.

Note that this is what impelled the Jews. The promise of a reward.

And below, we see that congruous merit is recognized only by the good will of God:

**The essential difference between meritum de condigno and meritum de congruo… From an ethical point of view the difference practically amounts to this that, if the reward due to condign merit be withheld, there is a violation of right and justice and the consequent obligation in conscience to make restitution, while, in the case of congruous merit, to withhold the reward involves no violation of right and no obligation to restore,…
**newadvent.org/cathen/10202b.htm

This is why, the congruous merit of Abraham’s works are said to be a gift of God. Because God was under no obligation to recognize their value.

2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit …Our merits are God’s gifts.

**2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ **in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.

The supernatural qualities of our acts and their merit before God derive from the fact that we are united to Christ first in justification.

God Bless,
Michael

And therein lies your error. Sanctifying grace is synonymous with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is sanctifying grace.
2023 Sanctifying grace is the gratuitous gift of his life that God makes to us; it is infused by the Holy Spirit into the soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it.

In other words, before the advent of Jesus Christ, there was no sanctifying grace. Therefore, if you interpret Catholic doctrine to mean that we must have sanctifying grace in our hearts before we can merit salvation, then you have condemned all men before Baptism and all men of the Old Testament.

*It is a defined article of the Catholic Faith that man before, in, and after justification derives his whole capability of meriting and satisfying, as well as his actualmerits and satisfactions, * solely from the infinite treasure of merits which Christ gained for us on the Cross (cf. Council of Trent, Sess. VI, cap. xvi; Sess. XIV, cap. viii).
newadvent.org/cathen/10202b.htm

Note that the Catholic encyclopedia acknowledges that man can merit before justification. And note that they reference Session VI and Chapter XIV of the Council of Trent.

Note that Trent also says:

**CHAPTER IV
A BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER AND ITS MODE IN THE STATE OF GRACE
**In which words is given a brief description of the justification of the sinner, as being a translation from that state in which man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace and of the adoption of the sons of God through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Savior.
This translation however cannot, since promulgation of the Gospel, be effected except through the laver of regeneration or its desire, as it is written:
Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[18]

In other words, since the time of the Gospel, it became necessary to be Baptized in order to be justified. But, before the advent of the Gospel, justification was obtained in a different manner.

So, since sanctifying grace is bestowed only through Baptism, then before the Gospel, men were meriting without sanctifying grace and without being united to Christ.

So, if you are correct, how were they justified and how did they merit anything after justification?

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

No one is denying that. However, the Council of Trent clearly teaches that Baptism is the instrumental cause of justification and that Jesus Christ is the meritorious cause of justification.

No one is denying that either. But the fact is that God only gives eternal life to those who seek it and justification is the beginning of eternal life.

Let me quote James Akin, who quotes the Council of Trent:

The eighth chapter explains why justification is said to be by faith and grace. It is said to be by faith in the sense that faith is "the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God . . . " On the other hand, justification is said to be by grace "because none of those things which precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace."

In other words, there is no condign merit in our works prior to justification.But after justification it is Christ working in us.It is His merits which God crowns.**

As a result, Trent teaches that our initial justification

, by which we come to and are accepted by God, is not merited by us in anyway by anything we do, whether an act of faith or works.**Jimmy Akin is in error here. Trent is clear that our “initial call” is unmerited.**CHAPTER V
THE NECESSITY OF PREPARATION FOR JUSTIFICATION IN ADULTS, AND WHENCE IT PROCEEDS
**It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ, that is, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits on their part, they are called; that they who by sin had been cut off from God, may be disposed through His quickening and helping grace to convert themselves to their own justification by freely assenting to and cooperating with that grace; so that, while God touches the heart of man through the illumination of the Holy Ghost, man himself neither does absolutely nothing while receiving that inspiration, since he can also reject it, nor yet is he able by his own free will and without the grace of God to move himself to justice in His sight.

** It is intrinsically impossible (as we shall see later, in our discussion of Trent’s chapter sixteen) for an unjustified person to merit justification, therefore our justification is not merited by anything we do leading up to it**.

That is not true. All you have to do is ask yourself this question. If justification is not merited why was Abraham only considered just after he demonstrated faith in works?

The Apostle is clear:
. James 2 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?

James 2 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

James 2 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

So, although our works do not instrinsically merit justification. By God’s grace they do.

Ask yourself this, would Abraham have been considered just, if after God asked him to leave his home he had said, “Your grace is enough for me. Just say the word and I shall be just in your sight.”???

This makes explicit what was taught in chapter seven: that Christ, not us, is the meritorious cause of our justification.

cin.org/users/james/files/justcath.htm

That is true. But remember that Jesus is the meritorious cause of justification for ALL MANKIND. Yet not all mankind is made just.

WHY?

Because some cooperate with the grace of God and some don’t. Those who do, MERIT, justification.

But justification is beyond our ability to merit? Not if we seek it in faith, without which it is impossible to please God. And the term “to please God”, means “to merit”.

cont’d

 

[De_Maria]

cont’d

And let me give you what the Coucnil of Trent states in unadulterated form:

**CHAPTER VIII.
In what manner it is to be understood, that the impious is justified by faith, and gratuitously.

And whereas the Apostle saith, that man is justified by faith and freely**, those words are to be understood in that sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed; to wit, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and the root of all Justification; without which it is impossible to please God,

In other words, without which it is impossible to merit.**

and to come unto the fellowship of His sons: but we are therefore said to be justified freely

, because that none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification.Because they are works of congruous merit, not condign merit.

For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace.

**

I don’t think Trent can be any clearer. Nothing preceding justification - whether faith or works - merits justification. For if this were so, then grace would no longer be grace.

No, it can’t. Not if you understand condign and congruous merit. Not if you understand that God is just and will not forget your works.

Chapter 9 of the Council of Trent also states:

For, whereas Jesus Christ Himself continually infuses his virtue into the said justified,-

His condign merit.**

as the head into the members, and the vine into the branches,-and this virtue always precedes and accompanies and follows their good works

, which without it could not in any wise be pleasing and meritorious before God**

,

At this point, we must remember Canon #7:
Canon 7.
If anyone says that all works done before justification, in whatever manner they may be done, are truly sins, or merit the hatred of God; that the more earnestly one strives to dispose himself for grace, the more grievously he sins, let him be anathema.

Obviously, this Canon from Trent condemns the idea that one can’t perform meritorious works before justification.

Therefore, we must understand Ch. 9 to mean that one can’t obtain condign merit before being united to Christ in Baptism.

To whom is the virtue of Christ continually infused according to the Council of Trent? To the justified, those who have been engrafted into the True Vine. Only those who have already been justified can be a branch of the True Vine. Works are meritorious after we have been engrafted into the True Vine.

The Catechism clearly states that the supernatural quality and meritoriousness of works are the fruits of union with Christ, and this union does not occur before justification. It occurs when we are justified:

2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. the saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.

God Bless,
Michael

Again, that is simply the difference between condign and congruous merit.

I’ll get to your other messages when I have more time. In the meantime, I’m looking forward to your reply.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

I don’t understand your breaking down of the quote. What it is saying is that being in a state of justification and possessing sanctifying grace amounts to the same thing. Justification is the infusion of sanctifying grace. Without this infusion, there are no meritorious works. And the links that I have given are orthodox in their teaching.

God Bless,
Michael

I believe you are correct in this understanding. I thought it meant that one could be in a state similar to justification before justification.

However, I notice the term supernatural merit is again, condign merit bestowed by Christ. Before that we had congruous merit earned by those seeking the reward promised by the God of Moses.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

BTW, cooperate does not always mean merit.

It never means merit. But we always merit when we cooperate.

An adult cooperates with God’s grace by having himself baptized and thus receive sanctifying grace. But baptism is not a meritorious work. It is the instrumental cause of justification, not the meritorious cause.

That is not what instrumental cause means. Instrumental cause says that Baptism is the instrument which God uses to bestow sanctifying grace.

However, to get to the point where we are to receive the gift of justification, the gift of sanctifying grace, bestowed by the instrument or sacrament of Baptism, we have to merit that by our response of faith and obedience to God’s call for conversion and penance.

Also, the Catholic Encyclopedia says the following about merit:

** The agent who merits** must fulfil two conditions : He must be in the state of pilgrimage (status viœ ) and in the state of grace ( status gratiœ ). By the state of pilgrimage is to be understood our earthly life; death as a natural (although not an essentially necessary ) limit, closes the time of meriting. The time of sowing is confined to this life; the reaping is reserved for the next, when no man will be able to sow either wheat or cockle. Comparing the earthly life with day and the time after death with night, Christ says: “The night cometh, when no man can work operari ]” ( John 9:4 ; cf. Ecclesiastes 11:3 ; Sirach 14:17 ). The opinion proposed by a few theologians (Hirscher, Schell), that for certain classes of men there may still be a possibility of conversion after death, is contrary to the revealed truth that the particular judgment ( judicium particulare ) determines instantly and definitively whether the future is to be one of eternal happiness or of eternal misery (cf. Kleutgen, “Theologie der Vorzeit”, II, 2nd ed., Münster, 1872, pp. 427 sqq.). Baptized children, who die before attaining the age of reason, are admitted to heaven without merits on the sole title of inheritance ( titulus hœreditatis ); in the case of adults, however, there is the additional title of reward ( titulus mercedis ), and for that reason they will enjoy a greater measure of eternal happiness.

In addition to the state of pilgrimage, the state of grace (i.e., the possession of sanctifying grace ) is required for meriting, because only the just can be "sons of God " and "heirs of heaven " (cf. Romans 8:17 ). In the parable of the vine Christ expressly declares the “abiding in him” a necessary condition for “bearing fruit”: “He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit” ( John 15:5 ); and this constant union with Christ is effected only by sanctifying grace .

This is only in relation to condign merit. Think about it, if your interpretation of these words is correct, then you have condemned all humanity to hell. It is a vicious circle.

Lets carry your interpretation to its logical conclusion.

1. No one is born with sanctifying grace.
2. Therefore, no one can please God.
3. Therefore, no one can be justified.
4. Therefore, no one can be saved.
5. Therefore, all are condemned to hell.

You must be in a state of grace in order to merit. A person is not in a state of grace (possessing sanctifying grace) *prior *to justification because being justified means being infused with sanctifying grace and hence being in a state of grace. Hence there is no merit prior to justification and hence you cannot merit initial justification.

This is referring to the New Covenant only. Because, as I understand it, before the New Covenant, there was no instrument to bestow sanctifying grace. The instrument being Baptism.

Therefore, if this is true, then we are saying that the Patrarchs, Prophets, Priests and Kings of the Old Testament did not please God and therefore did not merit. But we know that Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Elijah and Moses, just to name a few, did please God.

So, how did they please God without sanctifying grace?

Judith 8 23 So Isaac, so Jacob, so Moses, and all that have pleased God, passed through many tribulations, remaining faithful.

So, again I must refer to Canon 7 of the Council of Trent:
Canon 7. If anyone says that all works done before justification, in whatever manner they may be done, are truly sins, or merit the hatred of God; that the more earnestly one strives to dispose himself for grace, the more grievously he sins, let him be anathema.

God Bless,
Michael

So, by no means am I completely convinced of my own arguments. If I am correct, the Catholic Encyclopedia is in error in that last statement which you referenced. Or we are not understanding it correctly, because I believe I understand it to say the same as you understand.

However, I have identified an error in the Catholic Encyclopedia once before.

And, I believe that Catholic Teaching is eminently reasonable. But I’m looking forward to your replies.

May God bless you,

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[BRB]

But, before the advent of the Gospel, justification was obtained in a different manner.

So, since sanctifying grace is bestowed only through Baptism, then before the Gospel, men were meriting without sanctifying grace and without being united to Christ.

You talk here as if Christ was a new invention of God … not available to the OT faithful, and not able to save them.

'We today haven’t seen Christ with our physical eyes. Same circumstances existed for David, the OT prophets, and the Hebrew faithful. These OT Hebrews knew their Messiah via private spiritual revelations …and thru OT scriptures.

As they looked FORWARD in faith to the certain future visitation of the Christ, we look BACK in faith upon the fulfilled historical life and passion of the Son.

Its all a timeline historical continuum, but with a timeless Christ who has aways been the means of merit and grace thruout the ages.

 

[BRB]

The Apostle is clear:
. James 2 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?

James 2 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

James 2 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

Key part in James is that last … “and not by faith only”.
Key part in story of Abraham … is that his works of offering Isaac came AFTER his earlier FAITH justification.

Faith always preceeds our works of faith. Until we first demonstrate to God we have faith in Christ … any/all works of ours are worthless. But, after our redemption in Christ … we are viewed in Christ as just by the Father, and we become workers/disciples of Christ … using our inspired talents/ gifts to advance the Gospel of Christ.

 

[mikeledes]

OK Mike. I’ve read the Council of Trent again and I believe I have identified your error.

Oh and for the meantime, I have to take back my previous message in which I said:
*Sounds as though you are correct about initial justification…
*
It may turn out that you are correct in the end. But for the meantime, please ignore that message.

Here is the key statement in Trent which I believe colors everything which you have said about not being able to merit before Justification:
Canon 7.
If anyone says that all works done before justification, in whatever manner they may be done, are truly sins, or merit the hatred of God; that the more earnestly one strives to dispose himself for grace, the more grievously he sins, let him be anathema.

Having said that, I will respond to all your messages. One at a time.

You’ve written a lot of stuff, so I’m going to address it in bulk because I presently don’t have the time to address each individual item.

What the Council of Trent is saying is that not all of the works performed by the unjust are sins, as claimed by Luther and Calvin. You must understand that both Luther and Calvin had a monergistic understanding of faith that and did not believe in the cooperation of the will (typically called synergism). Since Luther and Calvin believed man was totally depraved, it is impossible for the human will to positively respond to God. God simply gives you the gift of faith and there is no cooperation of the will.

Regarding condign and congruent merit:

**Catholic theology distinguishes at least three types of merit: congruent merit, in which it is fitting for an act to be rewarded, but there is no obligation to do so; condign merit, in which one has promised to reward the act, so there is an obligation; and what might be called strict merit, in which there is not only an obligation to reward, but the value of the act is equal to the value of the reward.

The Church teaches only Christ is capable of meriting in the strict sense. The most merit humans can have is condign - when, under the impetus of God’s grace, they perform acts which please him and which he has promised to reward (Rom. 2:6-11, Gal. 6:6-10). Thus God’s grace and his promise are the foundation for all human merit (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2007-2008).**

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9901frs.asp

The justified merit condignly those things which God has promised. Initial justifcation is conditioned on repentace, faith, and baptism. Baptism is the instrumental cause of justification, not the meritorious cause. Which means that Baptism is not a meritorious work that one performs in order to be rewarded justification. It is the God ordained means by which the gift of justification is conferred. Consequently, there is no merit - condign or congruent - involved because, as the Council of Trent clearly states, nothing preceding justification - faith or works - merits justification.

What you have argued is that moved by actual grace, man merits the infusion of sanctifying grace (justification). That is not congruent merit because congruent merit is not based on any divine promise. If it were, it would be condign. What you have basically argued here is that through repentance, faith, etc. , man merits justification condignly. Again,. the Council of Trent states that man cannot merit justification.

Moreover, without the gift of final perseverence, there is no merit. If you do not die in state of grace, all of your merits “die.” And the gift of final perseverance can never be merited condignly.

Baptized infants that die before the age of reason go to heaven without merits.

God Bless,
Michael