Thank you for reminding me of this part of your post. Yes, you are doing a great job of helping me prove my point, and of sinking your own train of thought!
Please look again at the verse from Colossians that you’ve quoted:
You see, you’re right – yes, we were forgiven our transgressions – all of them – at the time of our baptism! But, again, is Paul talking about all our transgressions, not only at the time of our baptism but also those not even yet committed? Was he saying that our forgiveness for any sort of transgression was instituted at that point?
Again, you misunderstand the Greek if you’re claiming this. Again, he would have to use the perfect tense if he meant to imply any sort of notion about past action that endures into the future. That’s not the case here. The verb ‘having forgiven’ (χαρισάμενος) is in the aorist. It speaks only to the time in the past at which Jesus forgave us. It does not attempt to speak about anything but that event, at that point in the past.
Now, if you want to see an example of this verb being used in the way that you want to use it, please take a look at Gal 1:18. Here, Paul is talking about a ‘granting of grace’ (for this is what the word means, of course), and he’s talking about it not just in terms of it with respect to the action of the past, but in terms of the effect that it continues to have in the future:
Can you see the difference? In Gal 1:18, Paul is talking about how the giving (of the promise) of God to Abraham is something that endures – it doesn’t get annulled or amended (cf vv. 15 and 17) by future actions (v. 17). Here, Paul
is talking about the enduring nature of the effect of an action in the past. And, sure enough, when this is his intent, he knows how to use the perfect tense in order to express what he wants to say!
So, as you can see, you’re taking Paul and making him say something that he never intended. Your fervor is edifying, but unfortunately, your exegesis requires a bit of shoring up…
Yep, you’re right – the sum total of our transgressions, at the time of our baptism, were forgiven by God!
Umm… psst…! :ehh: Do you think that James was telling folks to act like Christians as an abstract teaching? Do you think that they were already “doers of the word and not hearers only”? Of course not – it had come to his attention that people were not “bridling their tongue(s)” and worse, were “showing partiality”! And what was his reaction? Certainly not “don’t sweat it, 'cause God already forgave you of it”! No – he’s very concerned that, unless they mended their ways, they would be “convicted of the law as transgressors”! He was worried that their judgment might be merciless, and was telling them that they needed to get right with God so that they might be judged under the law of freedom! (Now … if they were non-Christians, then you still might have a leg to stand on – but he’s not! He’s talking to already-baptized Christians!)
Actually, you can…
you demonstrated that you are aware of the notion of tense in Koine Greek. Tell me, then…
- if Jesus’ “τετέλεσται”, in Jn 19:28 and 19:30, indicate that what he accomplished on the cross endures to this day, and…
- if Paul knows how to use the perfect tense to indicate enduring effect of past action, as demonstrated in Gal 1:18
then why do you persist in asserting an interpretation of “enduring effect” in your quotations from Ephesians and Colossians? Paul is clearly using the Aorist. Your interpretation, then, is clearly un-Scriptural, on its very face!
