Salvation through christ church affiliation

[NotWorthy]

santaro75:

That is super stretching. there is no mention about submitting to the Church.

weak at best

Not if you apply “Listen” to the Ancient Hebrew meanings, not today’s.

Listen means “Obey”.

Deut. 34:15 - *
"A prophet like me will the LORD, your God, raise up for you from among your own kinsmen; to him you shall listen.

In the Gospels:
“This is my beloved Son. Listen to Him”.
*
If you think “Listen and Obey” everytime you read “listen”, and if you think “Believe and Obey” everytime you read “believe”, you’ll be closer to the true meanings of the words in Ancient Israel.

Notworthy

 

[santaro75]

NotWorthy:

Not if you apply “Listen” to the Ancient Hebrew meanings, not today’s.

Listen means “Obey”.

Deut. 34:15 - **
"A prophet like me will the LORD, your God, raise up for you from among your own kinsmen; to him you shall listen.

*In the Gospels: *
“This is my beloved Son. Listen to Him”.
**
If you think “Listen and Obey” everytime you read “listen”, and if you think “Believe and Obey” everytime you read “believe”, you’ll be closer to the true meanings of the words in Ancient Israel.

Notworthy

I agree with all you said because it is saying to obey Christ. I have no argument there. But what does that have to do with the Christ like authority of the RCC?

 

[Mickey]

santaro75:

I agree with all you said because it is saying to obey Christ. I have no argument there. But what does that have to do with the Christ like authority of the RCC?

Christ gave authority to the Catholic Church to teach and interpret while being protected by the Holy Spirit. The truth will set you free. It’s called obedience.

 

[santaro75]

Mickey:

Christ gave authority to the Catholic Church to teach and interpret while being protected by the Holy Spirit. The truth will set you free. It’s called obedience.

streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetching!

When my dad was a child, you would go to hell if you ate meat on fridays. The church

takes ->herself<- WAAAAAAAAAY too seriously.

 

[Mickey]

santaro75:

When my dad was a child, you would go to hell if you ate meat on fridays.

Care to show such statements as proclaimed by the Catholic Church?

santaro75:

The church takes herself WAAAAAAAAAY too seriously.

The TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTH will set you free.

 

[NotWorthy]

santaro75:

I agree with all you said because it is saying to obey Christ. I have no argument there. But what does that have to do with the Christ like authority of the RCC?

Remember, Listen = Listen and Obey.

I re-iterate Post #103:

Notworthy:

Luke 10:16 - “Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.”

Pretty clear to me!!!

How about the entire Book of Acts? The Doctrines laid down for the Gentiles in Antioch, for example, were laid down for all Gentiles.

In Acts, the Church decided that Gentiles need not be circumcised. Christ didn’t “per se”, but the Church did. Yes, I know, Christ was acting through the Church, but to the naked eye (and ear), it was the Church that set the guidelines all through Acts and Paul’s Epistles (for that matter).

Notworthy

 

[NotWorthy]

Santaro,

Quick Challenge: Show me a Church that does not set rules and guidelines on what to believe.

Any Church that says “We Believe this” and “We Believe that” is telling its congregation what to believe. How is that different from what our Magisterium does?

Notworthy

 

[santaro75]

NotWorthy:

Santaro,

Quick Challenge: Show me a Church that does not set rules and guidelines on what to believe.

Any Church that says “We Believe this” and “We Believe that” is telling its congregation what to believe. How is that different from what our Magisterium does?

Notworthy

See thats just it. There isn’t one. But there is Christ and what he said in the gospels. The Gospels have all authority. Christ has all authority.

 

[santaro75]

Mickey:

Care to show such statements as proclaimed by the Catholic Church?

The TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTH will set you free.

Does anyone looking on remember those days when eating meat on friday was mortal sin?

 

[Mickey]

santaro75:

Does anyone looking on remember those days when eating meat on friday was mortal sin?

This was your statement:
“…you would go to hell if you ate meat on fridays”.

 

[santaro75]

Mickey:

This was your statement:
“…you would go to hell if you ate meat on fridays”.

Does mortal sin not mean you will go to hell, unless you happen to have time in your schedule between 4pm and 4:30pm on saturday afternoon to hit the confessional box.

 

[Mickey]

santaro75:

Does mortal sin not mean you will go to hell, unless you happen to have time in your schedule between 4pm and 4:30pm on saturday afternoon to hit the confessional box.

Only God knows who is going to hell.

Fasting is Biblical. It is a discipline of the Church. Jesus fasted for forty days in the desert. John the baptist fasted on locusts and honey in the desert–etc, etc.

Being obedient to the true Church, we fast and pray and do pennance. I will not respond to your snide and condescending remark about confession. Start a thread if you don’t understand this holy sacrament.

Peace

 

[Strider]

ReformedCatholic:

If LIFE = GRACE, then why doesn’t EAT = LOVE, and FLESH = HOLY SPIRIT, and BLOOD = CHARITY? You say it’s all literal, yet change the “literal” meaning of one of the key terms- this makes it not-literal.

My suggestion is that “whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto ME,” and that serving those less fortunate is actually serving God and therefore honoring him. You are also in communion with those you are serving (God). I don’t see the church as necessary in the manner you present. However, I can accept that it could be necessary as a source of spiritual rejuvenation and revitalization for those of this belief system.

I just spent twenty minutes, laboriously typing out the relevant passages from John 6, hit a wrong key and it all disappeared.
I don’t have time to do it again,so let me just suggest that you read John 6:35 - 71. In that span, Jesus claims six times that he is the “bread of life,” and we must, “eat his flesh and drink his blood.” His listeners, native Aramic speakers who would have fully understood what he was saying, “drew back and no longer went about with him.” Jn 6:66
Jesus does not correct himself or call them back. He really wants us to eat his flesh and drinik his blood; in fact, he requires it. We can on only do that in a Catholic Church, and it is required that we at least attend Mass in that Church on Sunday.
Yes, good works are required, but you can’t work yourself into heaven. Faith, the free gift from God, is necessary first, and it is faith that brings us to Mass and the Eucharist our Lord commanded us to do in rememberance of him. Then your works will be efficacious.

 

[NotWorthy]

santaro75:

See thats just it. There isn’t one. But there is Christ and what he said in the gospels. The Gospels have all authority. Christ has all authority.

Oh, but yes there is. Christ built a Church and He gave that Church the power to bind and loose! That’s authority! All throughout the OT, that was the authority equal to the rulers authority in the rulers absence. You see it in Joseph, and you see it many times in Israel.

So, until Christ comes again, He has left that authority with the Pope and the college of Bishops.

Notworthy

P.S. What about the authority I mentioned in posts 103 and 110

 

[santaro75]

NotWorthy:

Oh, but yes there is. Christ built a Church and He gave that Church the power to bind and loose! That’s authority! All throughout the OT, that was the authority equal to the rulers authority in the rulers absence. You see it in Joseph, and you see it many times in Israel.

So, until Christ comes again, He has left that authority with the Pope and the college of Bishops.

Notworthy

P.S. What about the authority I mentioned in posts 103 and 110

he gave us all the power to bind and loose.

**A Brother Who Sins Against You **

MT18 15"If your brother sins against you,**(“http://bibleresources.bible.com/pas...passage1=Matthew+18&version=31#fen-NIV-23741b”)] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.     19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

Christ is King.

 

[santaro75]

Mickey:

Only God knows who is going to hell.

Fasting is Biblical. It is a discipline of the Church. Jesus fasted for forty days in the desert. John the baptist fasted on locusts and honey in the desert–etc, etc.

Being obedient to the true Church, we fast and pray and do pennance. I will not respond to your snide and condescending remark about confession. Start a thread if you don’t understand this holy sacrament.

Peace

Sorry that was condescending. But I went to confession for years, in pain from my sin and feeling so guilty, then i would recieve forgiveness and feel great. then i would sin over and over again the same sins. I recieved graces from Christ to overcome those sins later on completely separate from the confessional. I am not saying that confession is bad and not a holy thing, I just do not think it is the only way to have your sins forgiven and to recieve graces.

Legalism is contrary to Christ

 

[Mickey]

santaro75:

Sorry that was condescending. But I went to confession for years, in pain from my sin and feeling so guilty, then i would recieve forgiveness and feel great. then i would sin over and over again the same sins. I recieved graces from Christ to overcome those sins later on completely separate from the confessional. I am not saying that confession is bad and not a holy thing, I just do not think it is the only way to have your sins forgiven and to recieve graces.

I am saddened that you did not seem to benefit from this beautiful sacrament.
When I was a non-practicing Catholic, (for many years), I used to say that I don’t need to confess my sins to a priest–I can confess directly to God. And I did. And I committed the same sins over and over again.
Then one day I returned to confession. I confessed my sins to God with a contrite heart before a Catholic priest. It was as if the weight of the world was lifted from my shoulders. I could literally feel the grace. I wept. I overcame my worst sins and dedicated my life to Jesus Christ and His holy Church. The holy sacrament of reconciliation is beyond words.

santaro75:

Legalism is contrary to Christ

Yes it is. What is your point?

 

[NotWorthy]

santaro75:

he gave us all the power to bind and loose.

18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. 19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

Christ is King.

So… what you bound on earth is bound in heaven???

Let’s use your same logic on other passages. The sins that you forgive, they are forgiven?

It sounds like Christ doesn’t have all the authority. It sounds like WE ALL have authority.

Do you think that maybe when Christ was talking to the Apostles, maybe he was talking just to the Apostles?

Notworthy

 

[ReformedCatholic]

Mickey:

Christ gave authority to the Catholic Church to teach and interpret while being protected by the Holy Spirit. The truth will set you free. It’s called obedience.

Obedience = Freedom. Sounds like Orwell’s 1984 to me.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

Mickey:

Care to show such statements as proclaimed by the Catholic Church?

The TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTH will set you free.

It’s currently being claimed on another thread. 1 mortal sin = hell, or something like that.