Same Sex sexual relationships: history in the Catholic (and Orthodox, Protestant) churches.

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Interesting thread. For 2,000 years of Church History, the Church have always maintain in opposition against homosexual activity. To make the claim that the Church have been silent in the issue of homosexual is incorrect. Consider these quotes by the ECF.

“You shall not commit fornication; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not be a corrupter of youth.” Letter of Barnabas 10 (A.D. 74).

“You shall not be a corrupter of boys, nor like unto such.” Letter of Barnabas 10 (A.D. 74).

“You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill one that has been born.” Didache 2:2 (A.D. 90).

“[W]e have been taught that to expose newly-born children is the part of wicked men; and this we have been taught lest we should do anyone harm and lest we should sin against God, first, because we see that almost all so exposed (not only the girls, but also the males) are brought up to prostitution. And for this pollution a multitude of females and hermaphrodites, and those who commit unmentionable iniquities, are found in every nation. And you receive the hire of these, and duty and taxes from them, whom you ought to exterminate from your realm. And any one who uses such persons, besides the godless and infamous and impure intercourse, may possibly be having intercourse with his own child, or relative, or brother. And there are some who prostitute even their own children and wives, and some are openly mutilated for the purpose of sodomy; and they refer these mysteries to the mother of the gods.” Justin Martyr, First Apology 27 (A.D. 151).

“All honor to that king of the Scythians, whoever Anacharsis was, who shot with an arrow one of his subjects who imitated among the Scythians the mystery of the mother of the gods . . . condemning him as having become effeminate among the Greeks, and a teacher of the disease of effeminacy to the rest of the Scythians.” Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Greeks 2 (A.D. 190).

“[According to Greek myth] Baubo [a female native of Elusis] having received [the goddess] Demeter hospitably, reached to her a refreshing draught; and on her refusing it, not having any inclination to drink (for she was very sad), and Baubo having become annoyed, thinking herself slighted, uncovered her shame, and exhibited her nudity to the goddess. Demeter is delighted with the sight–pleased, I repeat, at the spectacle. These are the secret mysteries of the Athenians; these Orpheus records.” Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Greeks 2 (A.D. 190).

“It is not, then, without reason that the poets call him [Hercules] a cruel wretch and a nefarious scoundrel. It were tedious to recount his adulteries of all sorts, and debauching of boys. For your gods did not even abstain from boys, one having loved Hylas, another Hyacinthus, another Pelops, another Chrysippus, another Ganymede. Let such gods as these be worshipped by your wives, and let them pray that their husbands be such as these–so temperate; that, emulating them in the same practices, they may be like the gods. Such gods let your boys be trained to worship, that they may grow up to be men with the accursed likeness of fornication on them received from the gods.” Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Greeks 2 (A.D. 190).

“[A]ll other frenzies of the lusts which exceed the laws of nature, and are impious toward both [human] bodies and the sexes, we banish, not only from the threshold but also from all shelter of the Church, for they are not sins so much as monstrosities.” Tertullian, Modesty 4 (A.D. 220).

“[God forbid the Jews to eat certain foods for symbolic reasons:] For that in fishes the roughness of scales is regarded as constituting their cleanness; rough, and rugged, and unpolished, and substantial, and grave manners are approved in men; while those that are without scales are unclean, because trifling, and fickle, and faithless, and effeminate manners are disapproved. Moreover, what does the Law mean when it…forbids the swine to be taken for food? It assuredly reproves a life filthy and dirty, and delighting in the garbage of vice…Or when it forbids the hare? It rebukes men deformed into women.” Novatian, The Jewish Foods 3 (A.D. 250).

“[T]urn your looks to the abominations, not less to be deplored, of another kind of spectacle…Men are emasculated, and all the pride and vigor of their sex is effeminated in the disgrace of their enervated body; and he is more pleasing there who has most completely broken down the man into the woman. He grows into praise by virtue of his crime; and the more he is degraded, the more skillful he is considered to be. Such a one is looked upon–oh shame!–and looked upon with pleasure…nor is there wanting authority for the enticing abomination…that Jupiter of theirs [is] not more supreme in dominion than in vice, inflamed with earthly love in the midst of his own thunders…now breaking forth by the help of birds to violate the purity of boys. And now put the question: Can he who looks upon such things be healthy-minded or modest? Men imitate the gods whom they adore, and to such miserable beings their crimes become their religion.” Cyprian of Carthage, Letters 1:8 (A.D. 253).

“Oh, if placed on that lofty watch-tower, you could gaze into the secret places–if you could open the closed doors of sleeping chambers and recall their dark recesses to the perception of sight–you would behold things done by immodest persons which no chaste eye could look upon; you would see what even to see is a crime; you would see what people embruted with the madness of vice deny that they have done, and yet hasten to do–men with frenzied lusts rushing upon men, doing things which afford no gratification even to those who do them.” Cyprian of Carthage, Letters 1:9 (A.D. 253).

So you see in the writings of the ECF, the Church have always taught against homosexual acts as sinful. As far as Protestant Reformers, they traditionally oppose homosexual acts.

The acceptance of homosexuals by Protestants is in our modern age. Just read the events concerning the Lutheran vote that allow homosexuals into their clergy and religious life. Not to mention there are so called “Liberal Christian” Protestant Churches that now bless gay marriages, etc based on their so-called interpretation of Scripture. In my observation, this is the major draw back for the doctrine of Sola Scriptura one of the pillars of Protestantism.
Very well done good and faithful servant! Thanks
 
Very well done good and faithful servant! Thanks
Well if I am not mistaken The CC has allowed lot of homos into the Priest hood as well then covered them up for years even when they sexually abused Children Hmmmmmm:o
 
When it comes to who is actually united to Christ and truly an adopted child of God, I’m glad God alone makes that determination and not us…
We are all called to be united to Christ. This call requires a response on our part.
Sound doctrine and orthodoxy does not make you saved or reconciled to God. We know the demons believe God is one and shutter.
Belief alone is not enough. Obviously, the demons delight in NOT obeying God.
The thief on the cross did not know much orthodoxy.
But when you know the truth, you are required to follow it. Had the thief miraculously been saved from the cross, do you believe he would have returned to a life of Sin?
I find it funny how some Christians try to make same sex marriage an essential to be Christian when the topic of same sex marriage is silient in the Scriptures.
The teaching of Jesus and the Apostles are Essentials. Scripture is silent on same sex marriage because there is no such thing. Homosexual acts are condemned in the Bible, so how can she sanction same sex marriage? :confused:

Perhaps you are arguing that same sex couples are not having sex, so they can therefore be married?
 
We are all called to be united to Christ. This call requires a response on our part. Belief alone is not enough. Obviously, the demons delight in NOT obeying God. But when you know the truth, you are required to follow it. Had the thief miraculously been saved from the cross, do you believe he would have returned to a life of Sin? The teaching of Jesus and the Apostles are Essentials. Scripture is silent on same sex marriage because there is no such thing. Homosexual acts are condemned in the Bible, so how can she sanction same sex marriage? :confused:

Perhaps you are arguing that same sex couples are not having sex, so they can therefore be married?
What is your position on Christian homosexuals who are married in the church? Are you saying that they cannot enter the kingdom of God because they are a married homosexual couple and are in perpetual sin?
 
What is your position on Christian homosexuals who are married in the church?
qui est ce;5677285:
Scripture is silent on same sex marriage because there is no such thing. Homosexual acts are condemned in the Bible, so how can she sanction same sex marriage? :confused:
Are you saying that they cannot enter the kingdom of God
I am not in charge of judging who gets to go to Heaven and who goes to Hell. My job is to seek the Truth, however inconvenient it is, and follow it to the best of my ability through God’s grace…
because they are a married homosexual couple and are in perpetual sin?
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE!
 
I am not in charge of judging who gets to go to Heaven and who goes to Hell. My job is to seek the Truth, however inconvenient it is, and follow it to the best of my ability through God’s grace…THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE!
Well, I think the United States of America would disagree with you. In addition, there are Christian Churches around the world who marry Christian homosexuals.
 
Well if I am not mistaken The CC has allowed lot of homos into the Priest hood as well then covered them up for years even when they sexually abused Children Hmmmmmm:o
I saw the documentary DVD called Deliver us from Evil. I only post this to put Christian same sex marriage in perspective of the gospel. We are all wretched sinners deserving of the eternal wrath of God. It is by grace alone through the merit of Christ which brings us to God as adopted children.

amazon.com/Deliver-Us-Evil-Thomas-Doyle/dp/B000NIVJH2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1252518164&sr=8-1
 
I saw the documentary DVD called Deliver us from Evil. I only post this to put Christian same sex marriage in perspective of the gospel. We are all wretched sinners deserving of the eternal wrath of God. It is by grace alone through the merit of Christ which brings us to God as adopted children.

amazon.com/Deliver-Us-Evil-Thomas-Doyle/dp/B000NIVJH2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1252518164&sr=8-1
Amen Adam my only point is why was it hushed up if the powers that be are against same sex marriages:shrug:
 
And the relationship between the priest sex abuse scandal and homosexual marriage is what again?
 
And the relationship between the priest sex abuse scandal and homosexual marriage is what again?
Jeremiah 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it?

We all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Who is going to rescue us from this body of death? I will not throw the first stone, but point everybody to Christ as the solution to all things.

There is one obvious connection, Priests and Christian homosexuals should be permitted to marry. Scripture does not prohibit either groups to marry.
 
What obvious connection? Priests who abuse children don’t do so because they can’t marry their ‘gay’ partners.
 
And the relationship between the priest sex abuse scandal and homosexual marriage is what again?
I guess the idea is we are all sinners, so we might as well sin heartily because God’s mercy requires no action on our part. Sin has no consequences.

Thoroughly unBiblical.
 
As for the ‘cover up’ slur, the vast majority of the cases took place when not only the courts but the MDs insisted that it was NECESSARY that the ‘offender’ be permitted to show that he was cured by being in a ‘new’ situation where he did not have the ‘guilt’ tied onto him. Were the bishops supposed to gaze into their crystal balls and say, “Oh no! The medical profession and the legal professions are dead wrong! In 20 or 30 years we will know that these people cannot be cured. We should totally go against accepted medical and legal recommendations because we can foresee the future. . .”
 
What obvious connection? Priests who abuse children don’t do so because they can’t marry their ‘gay’ partners.
The debate for clergy to marry is an old in-house debate within the Catholic Church. Priests and nuns also commit heterosexual sins too. I’m not Catholic, therefore, I’ll leave the Catholic Christians to discuss the prohibition of mariage of Catholic clergy.
 
Again, they do not commit the sins because they ‘cannot’ marry. Let’s be serious. Do all the people who are perfectly free to marry who go around committing fornication do so because THEY can’t marry?
 
I guess the idea is we are all sinners, so we might as well sin heartily because God’s mercy requires no action on our part. Sin has no consequences.

Thoroughly unBiblical.
If you want to bring this to the gospel and the righteous requirement of the law that’s fine. God’s requirement is perfect morality and sinlessness. Are you able to stand by your personal conformity to the righteous requirement of the law? We can start with the 600 Levitical Laws in Scripture and bring it to the 2 greatest commandments according to Jesus. So, how’s your personal conformity to God’s law? Are you doing any better than the Christian homosexual married couple?
 
Again, they do not commit the sins because they ‘cannot’ marry. Let’s be serious. Do all the people who are perfectly free to marry who go around committing fornication do so because THEY can’t marry?
Sorry, the prohibition of Catholic clergy on marriage in an in-house debate between Catholics. Protestant pastors are allowed to marry.
 
If you want to bring this to the gospel and the righteous requirement of the law that’s fine. God’s requirement is perfect morality and sinlessness. Are you able to stand by your personal conformity to the righteous requirement of the law?
Since I’m not perfect, I may as well wallow in sin, because I’ll never be free from sin. No need to strive for perfection. Jesus saves all.
 
Since I’m not perfect, I may as well wallow in sin, because I’ll never be free from sin. No need to strive for perfection. Jesus saves all.
Well, I think the Apostle Paul answers that question in the book of Romans.
 
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