E
estesbob
Guest
No to all of the above.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
San Diego bishop calls for a practical ‘apology’ to L.G.B.T. Catholics
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
O
OraLabora
Guest
Then let it go, and let those of us who do have sin on our conscience own up to our mistakes.No to all of the above.
That’s all the Holy Father is suggesting.
E
estesbob
Guest
But that is not what many in this thread and in the media have been suggesting. Read back where we told to apologize if we ever referred to homosexuality as disordered.Then let it go, and leave those of us who do have sin on our conscience, own up to our mistakes.
That’s all the Holy Father is suggesting.
G
graciew
Guest
That,the Pope made clear when he was asked about gay lobby.I am not calling the Popes teaching into to question. I am talking about the twisting of his words to push an agenda.
Forget it. We do not apologize to agendas,in fact,we do well kicking agendas away.
We do not need to explain precisely to you… how to embrace persons and deal with them.
You tell us,help us in our difficulties…
Please,Estesbob,be at peace. We are trying to wotk it out with you.
P
Padres1969
Guest
Indeed, Bishop McElroy joined with his counterpart from the Episcopal Diocese of San Diego, Bishop Mathes, at St Paul’s Cathedral last night to do exactly that coming together with the Latino and Gay communities to celebrate the lives of those lost in Orlando.OK, I’m not seeing that. I’m seeing Catholics, including the bishop of San Diego, trying to follow the Pope’s lead.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
J
JosieN
Guest
I am sorry for the lost lives. It was a terrible tragedy. Is the last photo ( the rainbow colors) a Catholic Church? Is it colored like that for the celebration of the lives lost in Orlando who were from the Gay community? Were there many in attendance for the celebration?Indeed, Bishop McElroy joined with his counterpart from the Episcopal Diocese of San Diego, Bishop Mathes, at St Paul’s Cathedral last night to do exactly that coming together with the Latino and Gay communities to celebrate the lives of those lost in Orlando.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8680/28118489382_a478d147f7_z_d.jpg
D
Don_Ruggero
Guest
Thank you very much for sharing this, Padres 1969. I shall have to look online to see if I can find Bishop McElroy’s remarks. I have been trying to follow a bit of the various bishops and their interventions in the aftermath of the event in Orlando and the statements of Pope Francis and of Cardinal Marx. From the perspective of Europe, it is moments of great challenge that the people of the United States confront in the many unfolding situations presently filling the news. It is a blessing that the Church there has shepherds like Bishop McElroy.Indeed, Bishop McElroy joined with his counterpart from the Episcopal Diocese of San Diego, Bishop Mathes, at St Paul’s Cathedral last night to do exactly that coming together with the Latino and Gay communities to celebrate the lives of those lost in Orlando.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8808/28118502472_a04b83e8c6_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8580/28118597482_d8fc90577b_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8799/28222390535_ca2c91e520_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8636/27606762853_800478c78b_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8680/28118489382_a478d147f7_z_d.jpg
C
ComplineSanFran
Guest
Thank you so much for sharing these beautiful pics. In your first one, please note that the Dean of the Cathedral, The Very Rev’d Penny Bridges, is standing wth the two Bishops.Indeed, Bishop McElroy joined with his counterpart from the Episcopal Diocese of San Diego, Bishop Mathes, at St Paul’s Cathedral last night to do exactly that coming together with the Latino and Gay communities to celebrate the lives of those lost in Orlando.
I’ll be watching for the texts of what the Bishops said.
Kudos to both the Catholics and the Episcopalians for coming together in prayer and reconciliation.
L
Lion_IRC
Guest
I understand your beef.So to whom are we to apologize and for what are we to apologize for? My beef is the idea that this is directed at all Catholics when in reality it is directed only at Catholics who have unjustly discriminated against homosexuals in either words or deeds.
Is stating Church teaching offensive? One poster told me I needed to apologize to someone I have never met or even heard of before for stating that homosexuality is disordered.
And I completely agree with you. :clapping:
D
Don_Ruggero
Guest
I would have to disagree, OraLabora, that all that Pope Francis has done is to call those who have sin upon their own conscience to own up to it.Then let it go, and let those of us who do have sin on our conscience own up to our mistakes.
That’s all the Holy Father is suggesting.
It is more than that.
This was so well and beautifully articulated by Pope Saint John Paul II during the Great Jubilee. If a person is sincere, the theological document he caused to be written is instantly accessible for study and gives answer to those who really seek answer.
As it is, Pope Saint John Paul II explained very well that day, The Day of Pardon, at the beginning of Lent, in Saint Peter’s, how it is that we are called to beg forgiveness for the sins of others by virtue of the bond that unites us to all Christians in the Body of Christ.
*
3. Before Christ who, out of love, took our guilt upon himself, we are all invited to make a profound examination of conscience. One of the characteristic elements of the Great Jubilee is what I described as the “purification of memory” (Bull Incarnationis mysterium, n. 11). As the Successor of Peter, I asked that “in this year of mercy the Church, strong in the holiness which she receives from her Lord, should kneel before God and implore forgiveness for the past and present sins of her sons and daughters” (ibid.). Today, the First Sunday of Lent, seemed to me the right occasion for the Church, gathered spiritually round the Successor of Peter,** to implore divine forgiveness for the sins of all believers**. Let us forgive and ask forgiveness!
This appeal has prompted a thorough and fruitful reflection, which led to the publication several days ago of a document of the International Theological Commission, entitled: “Memory and Reconciliation: The Church and the Faults of the Past”. I thank everyone who helped to prepare this text. It is very useful for correctly understanding and carrying out the authentic request for pardon, based on the objective responsibility which Christians share as members of the Mystical Body, and which spurs today’s faithful to recognize, along with their own sins, the sins of yesterday’s Christians, in the light of careful historical and theological discernment.
Indeed, “because of the bond which unites us to one another in the Mystical Body, all of us, though not personally responsible and without encroaching on the judgement of God who alone knows every heart, bear the burden of the errors and faults of those who have gone before us” (Incarnationis mysterium, n. 11). The recognition of past wrongs serves to reawaken our consciences to the compromises of the present, opening the way to conversion for everyone. *
I presume Catholics in the United States, as the rest of us did throughout the world, complied with this directive of the Holy Father on that day. I remember it as if it were yesterday.
Thus you and I and all Christians can acknowledge the sins of Christians, past and present, as a guilt to be confessed, a burden to be acknowledged and a shame that is to be owned up to before God and the human family. Memory and Reconciliation is a remarkable theological document that, in light of the recent statements of Pope Francis, should be taken up in hand and looked at anew.
D
Don_Ruggero
Guest
Thank you. I knew from her cassock that she would surely be the Dean of the Cathedral but I did not know her name. Would you know the name of the bishop next to her and beside Bishop McElroy? As best I recall, I only had occasion to meet one bishop of the Episcopal Church who was from California…and it was not he. That bishop would be long in retirement now anyway, I am quite sure.Thank you so much for sharing these beautiful pics. In your first one, please note that the Dean of the Cathedral, The Very Rev’d Penny Bridges, is standing wth the two Bishops.
I’ll be watching for the texts of what the Bishops said.
Kudos to both the Catholics and the Episcopalians for coming together in prayer and reconciliation.
Thank you.
C
ComplineSanFran
Guest
Yes, of course. The Episcopal Bishop of San Diego is The Rt Rev James Mathes.Thank you. I knew from her cassock that she would surely be the Dean of the Cathedral but I did not know her name. Would you know the name of the bishop next to her and beside Bishop McElroy? As best I recall, I only had occasion to meet one bishop of the Episcopal Church who was from California…and it was not he. That bishop would be long in retirement now anyway, I am quite sure.
Thank you.
In California, we have six Dioceses: San Diego, Los Angeles, El Camino Real (San Jose down to about San Luis Obisbo - coastal), San Joaquin, California (San Francisco Bay Area), Northern California (Sacramento area). I live in the Diocese of California.
So who your meet up was with probably depended on where you met him. Do you remember what year and where?
J
JosieN
Guest
I think other Catholics would agree with you. Many of us want to stay true to the teachings of Christ and the Church and are wondering how to be truthful and defend Church teachings without being told we are insensitive, rude, and uncaring. There are those on this forum who try this tactic also. It hurts my heart and it hurts my soul to see this happen.Thank you for this post, and I really appreciate your perspective. I have a question: Blended in with your post are aspects of Church teaching along side of human reaction to homosexuality. If your position is that people should apologize for harshness, rudeness, poor choice of words, or uncharitable comments, then I agree that an apology from the persons saying such things would be in order. If your position is that an apology is due for stating Church teaching or the definition of marriage, then I would disagree that an apology is due, since I don’t think any Catholic, or the Pope, expects to apologize for Church teaching.
I am honestly trying to learn how to appropriately address this subject (and related subjects) in a charitable and truthful way.
“More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason.”
- Our Lady of Fatima
P
Padres1969
Guest
No it’s not a Catholic Church. It’s the Cathedral of the Episcopal Diocese of San Diego. It was colored that way in honor of the lives lost in Orlando. In fact they color the Cathedral many different colors over the course of the year based on holiday, liturgical season, specific honor/celebration, etc… Here it was during Lent in liturgical purple. A donor has since offered to have the lighting expanded around to the front and far side as well as I understand it.I am sorry for the lost lives. It was a terrible tragedy. Is the last photo ( the rainbow colors) a Catholic Church? Is it colored like that for the celebration of the lives lost in Orlando who were from the Gay community? Were there many in attendance for the celebration?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/StPaulNightSD.jpeg/640px-StPaulNightSD.jpeg
As for attendance, it appeared to be a full house. The SDPD even had a presence and was recognized as well as I understand it.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
As for Bishop McElroy, he did speak so I’m sure when they have transcripts or videos of his and Bishop Mathes’ comments I or someone else can link to them. Dean Penny Bridges, and the Consul General of Mexico also spoke as I understand it.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
J
JosieN
Guest
Thank you for your reply. It is a beautiful church.No it’s not a Catholic Church. It’s the Cathedral of the Episcopal Diocese of San Diego. It was colored that way in honor of the lives lost in Orlando. In fact they color the Cathedral many different colors over the course of the year based on holiday, liturgical season, specific honor/celebration, etc… Here it was during Lent in liturgical purple. A donor has since offered to have the lighting expanded around to the front and far side as well as I understand it.
As for attendance, it appeared to be a full house. The SDPD even had a presence and was recognized as well as I understand it.
As for Bishop McElroy, he did speak so I’m sure when they have transcripts or videos of his and Bishop Mathes’ comments I or someone else can link to them. Dean Penny Bridges, and the Consul General of Mexico also spoke as I understand it.
S
SuperLuigi
Guest
Perhaps specific examples would help. I do on occasion see posts on here referencing a general section of CAF but never any examples.Ed,
I don’t doubt your piety or righteousness, but in shear numbers you may be a voice in the wilderness. There are many, even on this site, who talk about the virtues of treating others as Christ commanded, but who make little effort to turn speech into action. Those, not you, were the subject of my diatribe.
Hyperlinks and post numbers would be handy here.
S
SuperLuigi
Guest
I think a big step would be to get away from some of the “ban sodomy is the solution” or “it’s not right just because the Bible says”.I think other Catholics would agree with you. Many of us want to stay true to the teachings of Christ and the Church and are wondering how to be truthful and defend Church teachings without being told we are insensitive, rude, and uncaring. There are those on this forum who try this tactic also. It hurts my heart and it hurts my soul to see this happen.
“More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason.”
- Our Lady of Fatima
That kind of language will not get us nowhere with people real fast.
It also doesn’t help when Christians say things like “I don’t know why”.
If we really want people to adopt our ideas, we need to know the Faith-based and the secular arguments.
One reason why fighting for traditional marriage (aside from corrupt courts and orthodox Catholics not voting their values) has been so hard is because people haven’t fundamentally understood the arguments or what is going on.
For instance, a lot of people still assume that if they encounter a person who is defending so-called gay “marriage” hurling insults left and right and people who disagree, then that person MUST be GBLTQ when they are actually straights trying to make a name for themselves or defending their friends and family…CHARGE!! :knight2:
But in reality, I’ve found the GLBTQ folks to be much more reasonable on discussing this.
T
TMC
Guest
Beautiful.Indeed, Bishop McElroy joined with his counterpart from the Episcopal Diocese of San Diego, Bishop Mathes, at St Paul’s Cathedral last night to do exactly that coming together with the Latino and Gay communities to celebrate the lives of those lost in Orlando.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8808/28118502472_a04b83e8c6_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8580/28118597482_d8fc90577b_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8799/28222390535_ca2c91e520_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8636/27606762853_800478c78b_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8680/28118489382_a478d147f7_z_d.jpg
A
anon67074017
Guest
The Episcopal Church continues to offend me.Indeed, Bishop McElroy joined with his counterpart from the Episcopal Diocese of San Diego, Bishop Mathes, at St Paul’s Cathedral last night to do exactly that coming together with the Latino and Gay communities to celebrate the lives of those lost in Orlando.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8808/28118502472_a04b83e8c6_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8580/28118597482_d8fc90577b_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8799/28222390535_ca2c91e520_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8636/27606762853_800478c78b_z_d.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8680/28118489382_a478d147f7_z_d.jpg
C
ComplineSanFran
Guest
Well, perhaps you can begin to find a way around that.The Episcopal Church continues to offend me.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.