San Francisco Catholic Charities Head an Active Homosexual

[urban-hermit]

St.Sharky:

… because its really no ones business if he is “sinning” in a homosexual fashion in his own time, as it has no bearing on his job… So in the end he is fired for being homosexual…

Engaging in homosexual behavior is not “sinning” with quotes. It may not be the worst sin, but it is quite serious. And this man’s decisions to engage in a homosexual relationship and adopt a child are not in his adopted daughter’s best interests either. The Catholic Church has been increasingly clear on this. So it does have a bearing on his job: he works for “Catholic Charities”, in a high profile position no less. He is responsible for deciding how “Catholic” resources will be used in the real world. Moral decisions will have to be made by whoever is in this job, with consequences for those being served…

Sometimes it is more charitable to censure somebody than to give them tacit approval - for their own good but especially in this case for the good of those affected by the position this man holds at Catholic Charities. This is not a license to be mean or rude by any means. But sometimes charity actually requires that we censure somebody so that their choices will not do damage to others.

 

[assassin99]

servant675:

TWO BASIC TYPES OF HOMOSEXUALITY

There are two basic degrees or types of homosexuality. Individuals in the first group may, or may not be aware of their mental disorder, and therefore not all will see the need to seek professional counseling. This group struggles with their unnatural feelings and prefers to keep them private, and they deserve our compassion.

Some women who have a domineering father will only be attracted to those of their own sex because they have learned not to respect men. The same is true of some men who have a domineering mother. Others, should one of their parents/guardians not truly love them, from a very early age may unconsciously imitate certain masculine or feminine characteristics of the parent/guardian that they most admired. However, not all become homosexuals - as with every human being, our moral state determines our ability to resist the temptations we experience.

The other more severe type is made up of individuals who are “avowed,” practicing homosexuals. Through their own free will, they choose to live an immoral lifestyle. These individuals do not seek to change or confess their sinfulness - they have no shame, and most have many partners. They desire acceptance of the scandal they create, and are openly proud of their unnatural behavior. These type homosexuals and lesbians seek the “right” to publicly practice their unnatural behavior, and accuse anyone who admonishes them of being “prejudiced,” or of “discrimination.”

These individuals, and others who live immoral lives, as well as those who give their approval or “consent” to morally sick lifestyles, are included in the warnings and condemnations recorded throughout Sacred Scripture. For example: “They who do such things, are worthy of death (Hell), and not only they who do them, but they also that CONSENT to them that do them” (Romans 1:32).

Vincent Bemowski

So, if the homo keeps his orientation locked up inside him, living a life of quiet desperation, then we can feel “compassion” toward him/her - whatever that means - but as soon as he/she acts on his/her natural impulses and seeks love and intimacy with another of their gender, then we must feel… what? I guess we must feel loathing toward these people - deep, bitter, raging loathing toward these despicable sinners. Just like Jesus would want. Jesus loathes sinners!

But I don’t understand about the domineering parent thing. Should we hate people who had domineering parents or love them? I

 

[coyote]

servant675:

TWO BASIC TYPES OF HOMOSEXUALITY

There are two basic degrees or types of homosexuality.

Some women who have a domineering father will only be attracted to those of their own sex because they have learned not to respect men. The same is true of some men who have a domineering mother. Others, should one of their parents/guardians not truly love them, from a very early age may unconsciously imitate certain masculine or feminine characteristics of the parent/guardian that they most admired. However, not all become homosexuals - as with every human being, our moral state determines our ability to resist the temptations we experience.

Oh please. This isn’t even science; it’s myth. Archaic myth at that.
Please, provide credible references to support this preposterous declaration.

 

[Holly3278]

Liberalsaved:

You know, it strikes me that if this were so all-fired important, and so negatively affecting the performance of his job, and not a case of homophobia by whoever leaked the story, then someone would have done something in retaliation sooner. The old rule does fit; if I never heard about it it’s usually not that big a deal.

You know, I think it is pretty ridiculous that every time someone comes out against the homosexual agenda, some Liberal has to come and accuse that person of “homophobia”. I think we have every right to come out against a man who is leading a Catholic organization and is unrepentantly participating in a mortal sin!

 

[Liberalsaved]

Holly3278:

You know, I think it is pretty ridiculous that every time someone comes out against the homosexual agenda, some Liberal has to come and accuse that person of “homophobia”. I think we have every right to come out against a man who is leading a Catholic organization and is unrepentantly participating in a mortal sin!

Just like everytime any of you get all up in arms about something you play Blame Liberals? I do jump to conclusions but that goes both ways.

But no one noticed or cared until the story was leaked. This leads me to beleive that not only was he not doing his job incorrectly, but that no one had a reason to leak the story. Once again, this is saying something is a problem because it exists, and not because it actually has any negative effects. This seems to be the main argument against homosexuality in the first place; it exists.

 

[Brendan]

assassin99:

So, if the homo keeps his orientation locked up inside him, living a life of quiet desperation, then we can feel “compassion” toward him/her - whatever that means - but as soon as he/she acts on his/her natural impulses and seeks love and intimacy with another of their gender, then we must feel… what? I guess we must feel loathing toward these people - deep, bitter, raging loathing toward these despicable sinners. Just like Jesus would want. Jesus loathes sinners!

But I don’t understand about the domineering parent thing. Should we hate people who had domineering parents or love them? I

No we always love them.

Part of loving a person, though, is helping them overcome disorders. This includes things like drug addiction, alcholism and homosexuality.

It really isn’t any different from asking an alcholic to remain dry.

If the alcholic is living a life of “quiet desperation” because they can’t have a drink, does that mean we should give them a fifth of J.D.?

If they succum to the bottle, are we to rejoice? Do we love them less if they succum? No, it just means we need to redouble our support to keep them sober.

If one can love an alcoholic but hate the drunkeness, is it that far of a strech to see how one can love a homosexual, but hate homosexual acts?

 

[anamchara]

Just thought I’d post what the catechism teaches us on this subject

Section 2358 states that "men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies…do not choose their homosexual condition.

It provides that such people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity”; “[e]very sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided”; and they “are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.”

More than likely many will say, yes! but this only is for those who are living chaste lives?

I don’t know, I think the whole thing is sad frankly.

 

[anamchara]

Brendan:

No we always love them.

Part of loving a person, though, is helping them overcome disorders. This includes things like drug addiction, alcholism and homosexuality.

It really isn’t any different from asking an alcholic to remain dry.

If the alcholic is living a life of “quiet desperation” because they can’t have a drink, does that mean we should give them a fifth of J.D.?

If they succum to the bottle, are we to rejoice? Do we love them less if they succum? No, it just means we need to redouble our support to keep them sober.

If one can love an alcoholic but hate the drunkeness, is it that far of a strech to see how one can love a homosexual, but hate homosexual acts?

Brendan, If we know they are born with this then we assume it is biological and beyond thier control? Your talking about a serious addiction which is much different. I would equate homosexuality more with someone born left handed or some other more extreme example. I think an addiction is something to over come with ways you discribe but you cannot make a left handed child right handed…well they used to in the old days

I am not promoting homosexuality here but I’m saying a deeper understanding is needed. I don’t hate homosexuals or thier act because for them it’s normal. I may not understand it and think it’s bizzare because I’m straight but I surely don’t hate. It’s a sin yes but not to be hated IMHO.

Personally, I feel hate is a bit too strong anyway. I think there are plenty of other things we can “hate” and use up that energy although avoiding keeps for a lighter heart and understanding.

 

[St.Sharky]

urban-hermit:

Engaging in homosexual behavior is not “sinning” with quotes. It may not be the worst sin, but it is quite serious. And this man’s decisions to engage in a homosexual relationship and adopt a child are not in his adopted daughter’s best interests either. The Catholic Church has been increasingly clear on this. So it does have a bearing on his job: he works for “Catholic Charities”, in a high profile position no less. He is responsible for deciding how “Catholic” resources will be used in the real world. Moral decisions will have to be made by whoever is in this job, with consequences for those being served…

Sometimes it is more charitable to censure somebody than to give them tacit approval - for their own good but especially in this case for the good of those affected by the position this man holds at Catholic Charities. This is not a license to be mean or rude by any means. But sometimes charity actually requires that we censure somebody so that their choices will not do damage to others.

OK, so the point that you are trying to make, as far as I can see, is that because he is homosexual he will not be able to execute his duties to the fullest, and will not have any idea of how to allocate ‘Catholic resources’.

What are these ‘Catholic resources’ anyway? Money is money, you dont have to be a practising fundamental Catholic to know how to allocate it to its fullest.

If there is some finding of him being involved in criminal activity, such as money laundering or anything else, please, do fire, prosecute him to the fullest of your ability, but until then, leave him be, he has not broken the law (and I mean the law, as in the law passed by the government, not the law as in how you interpret scirpture that is many millenia old).

Holly3278:

You know, I think it is pretty ridiculous that every time someone comes out against the homosexual agenda, some Liberal has to come and accuse that person of “homophobia”. I think we have every right to come out against a man who is leading a Catholic organization and is unrepentantly participating in a mortal sin!

Right, of course, because everything and everyone that disagrees with you is a Liberal. I have seen Time and Bulletin magazines be slandered in these boards as nothing but ‘Liberal propaganda’. Granted, Liberalsaved is a liberl (just look at his name), but not everyone that disagrees with your point of view is not.

And it was a case of homophobia by whomever leaked this story. He wasnt failing at his job, he isnt molesting his daughter, and he isnt on drugs, he is just gay.

Or are we at the stage now where gays all around the world in positions of power should be afraid that the Catholic news agencies are goping to expose them and cause this kind of incident again?

 

[Libero]

WanderAimlessly:

More going on’s in San Francisco: PF

SO WHAT?

In Britain the head of CAFOD (Catholic Aid For Overseas Development) was an active homosexual - he managed to conduct a national charity very well bringing in large funding and helping many people worldwide. He had the blessings of our bishops for his hard work.

Who really cares if the leader of a charity is a homosexual?

Why is it really anyones business and how does this infringe on their ability to carry out charitable acts and conduct an organisation? - IT DOESN’T

What is wrong with just leaving these people alone? Why not spend a little less time searching for homosexuals to condemn and more time engaging in charitable acts ourselves?

What is it with this “gay-chasing” in America? Why are people so obsessed with it? I really cannot understand this…

LifeSite once again is bringing down the conservative side of religion…

Just leave the poor person alone and concentrate on correcting our own flaws!

 

[Robert_Bay]

GENERAL NOTICE

The rules of the Catholic Answers Forum, to which you agreed on registering, require that members be respectful of Catholicism, as well as of other faiths. This includes the Church’s teaching on homosexuality and homosexual behavior. Open and frank discustions that are also civil and courteous are encouraged.

The Church’s teaching on this subject can be found in the Catholic Catechism.

 

[gilliam]

mikew262:

Who are you really punishing by holding back? The Catholic Charities hierarchy, or the poor soul the charity is designed for?

All depends on where the money goes I suppose.

 

[Angels_Watchin]

Libero:

SO WHAT?

In Britain the head of CAFOD (Catholic Aid For Overseas Development) was an active homosexual - he managed to conduct a national charity very well bringing in large funding and helping many people worldwide. He had the blessings of our bishops for his hard work.

Who really cares if the leader of a charity is a homosexual?

Why is it really anyones business and how does this infringe on their ability to carry out charitable acts and conduct an organisation? - IT DOESN’T…

Just leave the poor person alone and concentrate on correcting our own flaws!

It appears you believe that same-sex attraction will not color any decisions that a person makes. I think you’re being naive.

Whereas the Catechism states that this attraction is a disorder, we must believe that it is.

Would you put a person with a pedephlia disorder in charge of a daycare center, or any organization that concerns itself with the future of children?

Would you put a person with an untreated bi-polar disorder in charge of any organization?

I hope not.

It is a disorder - it colors many decisions, as disorders do.
It is thinking in a way that is not in line with the Word of God and therefore, the church. It, for many, CAN be treated. And if you are a practicing Catholic it is your obligation to sincerely attempt to change your mind and have the mind of the church when it comes to the teachings and dogmas. And if you cannot change your mind, then at least be silent about it and pray for the grace to live God’s Word.

We don’t get to demand a response from God when WE don’t understand the teaching. We are called to believe and trust and keep the faith; and the awareness, thru our humility, MAY be given to us.

We believe because God says so. And God’s Church say’s so.

If you want to have the mind of the church on this, and get to know WHY the church teaches what it does, get the CD
by Doctor and Deacon Bob McDonald
saintjoe.com/p/prod_desc.pl?id=915
It’s a good start to understanding the psychological, scientific and medical research re: homosexual tendencies.

God bless,
Keep the faith,
Angel

 

[Libero]

Angels Watchin:

It appears you believe that same-sex attraction will not color any decisions that a person makes. I think you’re being naive.

Whereas the Catechism states that this attraction is a disorder, we must believe that it is.

Would you put a person with a pedephlia disorder in charge of a daycare center, or any organization that concerns itself with the future of children?

Would you put a person with an untreated bi-polar disorder in charge of any organization?

I hope not.

It is a disorder - it colors many decisions, as disorders do.
It is thinking in a way that is not in line with the Word of God and therefore, the church. It, for many, CAN be treated. And if you are a practicing Catholic it is your obligation to sincerely attempt to change your mind and have the mind of the church when it comes to the teachings and dogmas. And if you cannot change your mind, then at least be silent about it and pray for the grace to live God’s Word.

We don’t get to demand a response from God when WE don’t understand the teaching. We are called to believe and trust and keep the faith; and the awareness, thru our humility, MAY be given to us.

We believe because God says so. And God’s Church say’s so.

If you want to have the mind of the church on this, and get to know WHY the church teaches what it does, get the CD
by Doctor and Deacon Bob McDonald
saintjoe.com/p/prod_desc.pl?id=915
It’s a good start to understanding the psychological, scientific and medical research re: homosexual tendencies.

God bless,
Keep the faith,
Angel

I would be very cautious in actually claiming that somehow this man has made mistakes in his running of the charity.

The Catechism - whilst it is good - is not an authority for me, only God is the one whom I trust when it comes to matters of the church, he is the only one with real authority, and I do not believe God branded this a “disorder” so that he could allow for discrimination when people were allocating jobs.

This is merely an example of why the catechism is flawed, you are taking “disorder” completely out of context, using it as a tool to claim that homosexuals are not as fit for the job (correct me if I am wrong please).

I cannot understand the huge connections you are making between homosexuality and the running of a charity, and paedophillia and the running of a daycare centre - seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

And yes, I would put someone with bi polar disease in charge of an organisation, depending on the person themselves, I am not prepared to write off all people with bi polar disease in one massive sweeping generalisation that they are somehow unfit…

As for being Catholic - what does one do if they feel God is calling them to reach an understanding that differs to the one his church seems to promote?

Thankyou for the link, but all the same I shalln’t be using it - I don’t tend to trust people of the church trying to claim they know the science (particularly on this matter) - it appears they have somewhat of a bias… As well as that, this entire “gay agenda” it reffers to is a very American thing, I don’t feel threatened by it

 

[geezerbob]

As for being Catholic - what does one do if they feel God is calling them to reach an understanding that differs to the one his church seems to promote?

That is not God calling. It’s the work of Satan. You pray that God removes your prideful attitude (I know better than the church) and allows your beliefs to come into conformity with those of His church.

 

[Libero]

geezerbob:

That is not God calling. It’s the work of Satan. You pray that God removes your prideful attitude (I know better than the church) and allows your beliefs to come into conformity with those of His church.

How do you know though - I am to take your word for it? I really think Satan would concentrate elsewhere on his mission to get followers… do we not look at these matters on a personal level? Perhaps I shall write to my Bishop - he probably knows better than most

 

[Christus_Rex]

Does the man claim to be a Catholic? If so, he is deliberately living in sin and should not be running the organization.

If he isn’t, why is he running a Catholic organization, especially as he doesn’t follow the morals of the Catholic Church?

I don’t think non-Catholics should run Catholic organizations.

 

[Brendan]

anamchara:

Brendan, If we know they are born with this then we assume it is biological and beyond thier control?

Are you really trying to say that a homosexual person is powerless to live a chaste life? That, while a heterosexual person can accomplish a chaste life, a homosexual person cannot?

Your talking about a serious addiction which is much different. I would equate homosexuality more with someone born left handed or some other more extreme example. I think an addiction is something to over come with ways you discribe but you cannot make a left handed child right handed…well they used to in the old days

Homosexuality is a disorder, left handedness is not. Disorders require treatment, left handiness does not.

The Church is quite correct when it states that a person does not choose to be homosexual (like a person does not choose to be an alcoholic). We all have crosses that we do not choose. We all have disordered impulses, we are a fallen race.

But a person does choose to act or not act on their disordered impulses. They choose to engage or resist sin.

Homosexual acts are, per the Church, intrisically immoral. There are no circumstances when a homosexual act could be moral.

I, for one, am not arrogant enough to claim that I know more about morality that the Enternal Body of Christ, so I accept that.

And as part of that acceptance comes the holy duty to help those who publicly declare such an afflicition.

Personally, I feel hate is a bit too strong anyway. I think there are plenty of other things we can “hate” and use up that energy although avoiding keeps for a lighter heart and understanding.

It’s “Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin”, one cannot love the sinner without Hating the sin.

Why would anyone want to do less than hate sin?

God does.

 

[urban-hermit]

Libero:

Who really cares if the leader of a charity is a homosexual?

Why is it really anyones business and how does this infringe on their ability to carry out charitable acts and conduct an organisation? - IT DOESN’T…

If a homosexual man understands that homosexual acts are categorically wrong, abstains from them, and is willing to conduct his organization in accordance with Catholic moral teaching, then I would have no problem with the leader of a charity being homosexual. But the particular man we are discussing here has made a choice to maintain a sexual relationship with another man and adopt a daughter with him, which will undoubtedly confuse and mislead his adopted daughter about how people are supposed to behave and interact.

In addition, she is being denied a mother.

Children have a right to both a mother and a father whenever possible. Catholic Charities should not be placing children for adoption with homosexual couples, nor sending the false message, by the example of their leader, that such arrangements are in the interest of the child. The child is being denied her rights in favor of homosexual “rights”. The connection is clear. It is completely inappropriate that a person doing this uncharitable action should be head of Catholic Charities. He should step down or be fired.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

urban-hermit:

If a homosexual man understands that homosexual acts are categorically wrong, abstains from them, and is willing to conduct his organization in accordance with Catholic moral teaching, then I would have no problem with the leader of a charity being homosexual. But the particular man we are discussing here has made a choice to maintain a sexual relationship with another man and adopt a daughter with him, which will undoubtedly confuse and mislead his adopted daughter about how people are supposed to behave and interact.

If he adopted through Catholic Charities, I see a very good reason to fire him. It is called conflict of interest.

Saying that, he should be fired anyway since he is living and conducting business in direct defiance of the teaching and directives of the Catholic Church.

PF