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Lily_Bernans
Guest
No. I expect them to vote their conscience and not interfere with me voting mine. And that is the end of that.
- Status
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estesbob
Guest
1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Done.
Question posed to Bishop Kicanas: “If I’m hearing you correctly, you’re saying that for a Catholic who wants to approach his or her vote in three weeks with the mind of the church, it’s not a slam-dunk which way that vote should go. Is that right?”
Bishop Kicanas: "Yes, and I think that’s what “Faithful Citizenship” is saying. As a disciple, as a citizen, you have to weigh issues, you have to consider the character of candidates, what you think they will be able to do in terms of affecting the society and the culture in which we live. Clearly, the document is saying that to vote for someone who is proposing actions that are intrinsically evil, because of their position on those intrinsically evil acts, is certainly problematic for someone who is a believer in Christ. You don’t believe in Christ and then vote for a person simply, or primarily, because they hold a position that’s contrary to the church. You have to take those positions into consideration, and then make a choice. These are never easy choices."
Do you think there’s a consensus in the conference on whether a pro-choice vote, in itself, amounts to formal cooperation?
Bishop Kicanas: “No, I’m sure there isn’t.”
priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/kicanas-synod.htm
Reading on, Bishop Kicanas speaks of changing people’s minds. Which is something I’ve also seen poster Lily Bernans speak about here on CAF.
So there you have what you requested. A link and quote from a member of the Magesterium telling Catholic voters to weigh the issues. To look at the character of candidates. For the voter to give consideration to what they think a candidate will actually be able to do. And just to not vote for a candidate primarily to support an intrinsic evil position of the candidate.
IOW it seems to me a member of the Magisterium saying exactly what others here have been saying about the bishop’s Faithful Citizenship guide. Moving on…
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Something I shall never be able to fathom is why more do not see that private charity alone, as important as it is of course, can not possibly shoulder the burden of all that needs done in the 21st century when one considers the population and costs involved.
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Peter_J
Guest
I haven’t been getting into a lot of discussions with liberals/Dems (Have you noticed how many people seem to have forgotten that the primaries are still going on?); but sadly I don’t find your statement entirely surprising, as I have encountered a number of Catholic Trump supporters/promoters on the internet (not so much in real life) who claim they can logically argue for voting for Trump.
:sigh:
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Lily_Bernans
Guest
I don’t understand that, either, Sy. All I can assume is that the people who believe the poor could rely on private charity have never met a truly poverty-stricken person. There is an entire “city” of poverty-stricken people in the downtown area of the city where I live. They live under a bridge in cardboard boxes and wear rags others throw out. They often live on the food that others throw out. I met a woman once who was concerned because the homeless couldn’t get library cards! I have yet to meet a homeless person who wanted to read. They are too preoccupied with getting through the day alive. This woman actually thought the homeless could “just go live” in shelters. I think you know, as I do, that the shelters have to be vacated in the day and it’s “first come, first serve” each night. When they’re full, they’re full. It’s a sad, sad, situation. I don’t think private charity will ever be able to take care of all the homeless and poverty-stricken who need help.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
When it comes to social security, we are not talking about poverty. These people have wealth, often lots of wealth. Many people can also work. Why should we give the dole to people who can work but who are too lazy to work?
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estesbob
Guest
Again verifying the fact the only proportionate reason allowing one to vote for a pro abortion candiDate is if their opponent is more pro abortion than they are . As the numerous quotes and documents I have posted verify a vote for a pro abortion candidate is not in itself cooperation with evil unless there was a more pro-life available . How one can take the quotes you have given and translate them into saying a Catholic can support a pro abortion candidate if they think he is right on the “other issues” is beyond me
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estesbob
Guest
Something I cannot fathom is how people believe that supporting increased government spending mitigates a person support of unrestricted taxpayer-funded abortion on demand .
Neither party is calling for the end of government assistance. There is a valid political discussion over the size of this assistance and the best way to provide for the poor and needy. The problem we have is when people use these valid political differences as an excuse to support evil
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estesbob
Guest
I work with quite a few of these people in my dealings with recovering alcoholics. Increased government spending is not the solution to their problem. The overwhelming majority of these people are on the streets because of drugs, alcohol and mental problems . They need direct hands-on help- not more bureaucracies to throw money at them . In their case the private help is far more advantageous than government programs We also need to be concerned about their spiritual needs. I’m currently involved , with others ,in planning a “retreat” for the homeless in downtown Houston Texas Ultimately the solution to their problem is a spiritual one - not one that can be taken care of by any amount of government largess
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ATeNumquam
Guest
Even in a tiny country of 4.5 million we find that social security is essential. We can afford a public healthcare system. (Not as comprehensive as the UK’s National Health Service).
The founder of our social services system was a devout Catholic Prime Minister in the 1930s.
It doesn’t mean we have no homeless people, however - but that’s a relatively recent phenomenon and there is a growing gap between the rich and the poor which disturbs most of us. It seems to be inevitable in Western non-Communist countries.
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Seamus_L
Guest
Just as there are Democrats who are hoping Trump get’s the nomination so that the GOP can now be labeled as a party of the extreme right, I’m hoping Sanders get’s the nomination so that the Democrats can be labeled as a party of the extreme left. Course’ in this day and age it might not make that much difference in the case of the latter.
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J_Peterson
Guest
I’d like to see both parties crash and burn. I’m voting for Bernie in the general election whether he gets the nomination or not.
ETA: Bernie is not “far left”. That would make him an Anarchist or a Marxist which he clearly isn’t.
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Lily_Bernans
Guest
I agree with much of what you say, except that the solution to the homeless problem is ultimately a spiritual problem. I think they need to be able to earn a living wage. Many of them are mentally ill. To me, that’s a psychological problem, but you might identify it as spiritual. Maybe we just aren’t connecting on semantics. I do agree, though, that their spiritual needs must be taken care of.
I also don’t think government programs are the best remedy, but many of these people - addicts, alcoholics, the homeless - could never afford private programs. Many of them seem to be caught in a catch-22. Sad. It’s wonderful you are working with people on the fringes of society, though. They deserve all the help they can get.
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estesbob
Guest
By private programs I mean programs run by Churches and non-profits working in the inner city. help groups. The best private program for addicts and alcoholics only costs a dollar a meeting! To be honest I have ulterior motives for being involved in these ministries-it keeps me sober.
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Lily_Bernans
Guest
Those are very good groups, I agree, probably the best. The people who join those groups usually receive much support.
And you are to be commended for your help and support and your sobriety. I hope it continues and wish you well in your work with others who are suffering.
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Peter_J
Guest
I think I can, to some extent, understand that kind of thinking in theory. The thing that strikes me, though, is that the people who say that in practice hurt the Republican Party almost exclusively.
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Lily_Bernans
Guest
I can understand the feeling, too, but when I take emotion out of the equation, I can also see how bad it would be to “start from scratch.”
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estesbob
Guest
Thx-30 years and counting!
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Lily_Bernans
Guest
Kudos to you! And to your compassion for and work with others.
And I mean that most sincerely.- Status