Sanders Thread

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grotto said:
The sad reality shock is that they do not get to decide, its up to the super delegates which are in Clinton’s pocket!
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I just hope people will remember that when the Dems start up again with their propaganda about how “The Republicans are trying to steal the race from Trump!”

It’s pretty obvious IMO who doesn’t want voters to have a choice.
 
Peter_J said:
That’s exactly backwards: abortion is a political issue, it is not a religious issue.
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As Catholics we are supposed to put our faith before politics so for a Catholic it really shouldn’t matter
 
While I don’t personally think it would actually come to it, I wouldn’t fault anyone for arguing that Donald Trump’s apparent blow-hard attitude and over sensitivity to insult was a recipe for a major war, and combined with a likely case of doing next to nothing to actually impact abortion that voting for another candidate against him was addressing a proportionate concern.
 
7_Sorrows said:
isn’t it both?
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Well, if the intention was to say that abortion, homicide, burglary, theft, etc etc are all religious issues, and not to single out abortion as a “religious issue”, then I’d be okay with that.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
In this presidential election, those proportionate reasons certainly are arguable. You are right. And, voting in a candidate who supports abortion will not increase the number of abortions just as voting in one who does not support it will not halt abortion.
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That is definitely not true. There is a case before the supreme court regarding Texas’ new law on restricting abortion access due to their facilities. Since that law has gone into effect, there has been a dramatic decline of abortions in Texas. If Clinton or Sanders becomes president, they will put judges on the supreme court who will overturn this law which will very much increase the number of abortions.
 
jediliz said:
His message of raising taxes on everyone? He wants 15 TRILLION in New taxes, reducing everyone’s take home pay… and that hurts the working poor the most. $15 an hour minimum wage is a stupid idea. What happened to working hard and EARNING pay raises?
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You have to do the Democrat math: those who are working and earning an amount that taxes are paid must look forward to paying for “free” college and “free” healthcare, after those two big ones are covered we can get into houses, cars, smart phones + service, internet, flat screen tvs, cable or satellite coverage, food of course, energy assistance, childcare or abortions, and whatever else it takes to keep power in the right hands. Right?
 
Bataar said:
That is definitely not true. There is a case before the supreme court regarding Texas’ new law on restricting abortion access due to their facilities. Since that law has gone into effect, there has been a dramatic decline of abortions in Texas. If Clinton or Sanders becomes president, they will put judges on the supreme court who will overturn this law which will very much increase the number of abortions.
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We never really know.

It was a Republican Supreme court that voted to uphold Roe v. Wade and ushered in legal abortion in the US in 1973.

It was also a Republican appointed Supreme Court that did not take a chance to curb abortion in 1992 in Planned Parenthood v. Casey.

So, I don’t have a lot of faith that Republican appointed justices are going to do a thing to overturn abortion. They aren’t the puppets of those who appoint them, and so far, their record at ending abortion isn’t good.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
We never really know.

It was a Republican Supreme court that voted to uphold Roe v. Wade and ushered in legal abortion in the US in 1973.

It was also a Republican appointed Supreme Court that did not take a chance to curb abortion in 1992 in Planned Parenthood v. Casey.

So, I don’t have a lot of faith that Republican appointed justices are going to do a thing to overturn abortion. They aren’t the puppets of those who appoint them, and so far, their record at ending abortion isn’t good.
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did someone give you those talking points? I notice you have used them repeatedly the past several days. evidently, the information was not available to you the last 18 months until now.
 
7_Sorrows said:
did someone give you those talking points? I notice you have used them repeatedly the past several days. evidently, the information was not available to you the last 18 months until now.
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Do you not think they are worthy points to consider when discussing abortion as politics?
 
7_Sorrows said:
did someone give you those talking points? I notice you have used them repeatedly the past several days. evidently, the information was not available to you the last 18 months until now.
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They are facts, 7 Sorrows. I’ve pointed to them in various places for years, for months here, maybe as long as a year.

I’ve been aware that Republicans ushered in legal abortion since I was a teenager, and I was born in the 1980s.

I do mention them when someone says it’s important to elect a Republican president so he can appoint SC justices to overturn Roe v. Wade. Given the history of Republican justices and the issue of abortion, I think it’s important for people to know that Republican appointed justices in no way guarantees an overturn of Roe v. Wade.
 
estesbob said:
Nothing new here Same rationalizations for supporting evil we’ve seen for years

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12850762&postcount=79
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The fact that Republican appointed justices upheld Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey are not rationalizations, they are historical facts.

From a pro-life Democrat:

"First, neither major political party is consistent with Catholic teachings. I joined the Democratic Party in 1987 because I agreed with a majority of the issues. The Democratic Party is consistent with Catholic social teaching on a lot of issues. The 2012 platform called for “reclaiming the economic security of the middle class,” ensuring high quality and affordable health care, affordable housing and a “secure, healthy and dignified retirement.” Those are all positions that Catholics should support.

"I disagreed with the Democratic position on abortion, but I also made a vow to change it and leaving the party would almost be going against my vocation. Our Catholic teachings encourage us to not “abandon your beliefs” to join a political party, but to stay and try to change that party. I was called into this fight and I will not stop until the sanctity of all human life is protected by the Democratic Party platform.

Catholic teaching does not fit neatly into either party. We have to make the best decision we can when aligning with our joining a party.

When you compare the Republican and Democratic Party platforms overall, the Democratic Party platform is superior when you look at support for lifting families out of poverty. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops calls a living wage a “fundamental right of workers and a moral imperative of employers because it provides workers with a means and resources to form and support a family.” They estimate that raising the minimum wage would benefit 30 million workers. When many poor women seek an abortion because of poverty, a living wage can also contribute to protecting human life."

americamagazine.org/content/all-things/pro-life-democrats-and-catholic-church-21-questions-kristen-day

For me, as for this woman, the Democratic Party more closely adheres to Catholic moral teaching. Catholic moral teaching revolves around two principles: the dignity of the human person and the common good. I find none of the Republican candidates support the common good, but both of the Democratic candidates do. As I said previously, there are Republicans I admire; they just aren’t running for president.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I do mention them when someone says it’s important to elect a Republican president so he can appoint SC justices to overturn Roe v. Wade. Given the history of Republican justices and the issue of abortion, I think it’s important for people to know that Republican appointed justices in no way guarantees an overturn of Roe v. Wade.
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But we know that Democrat appointed justices guarantee that it won’t be overturned.
 
InigoMontoya said:
If you are referencing the Vatican letter from Pope Benedict to Cardinal McCarrick from 2004, for the position that a Catholic may not vote for a pro abortion candidate, keep in mind the disclaimer of the vote being allowable in the presence of proportionate reasons. Certainly proportionate reasons would be a contentious debate, but it is it not fair to acknowledge that in our current political climate they may be arguable? :confused:
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Well, the current political climate involves making excuses to vote Democratic, because it’s so :cool: and hip and will get one lots of tolerance points and acceptance into the cool kids crowd, even though one may be nominally religious:

“He/she may be Catholic, which is really out of date, but she/he votes Democratic, so meh…eh…I guess he/she is okay in my book”.

Granted, it does get harder and harder for even the not-so-practicing Catholic to ignore the obvious and still increasing anti-Catholic (God was booed what, 3 times at the 2012 DNC and was on the verge of being removed completely from the platform before Bill Clinton had to be sent on stage to save the day?) Democratic Party platform and writing it off as those coming together all neat and packaged as one voice.

But really that doesn’t mean that such Catholic voters have a true examination of conscience of change of heart, it just means their excuses get more desperate (ie abortion is the GOP’s fault in 2016 because their appointed justices in the 1970s who made it legal under very limited circumstances or PP selling baby parts is the GOP’s fault because they like capitalism) and they get angrier at people like me for not buying into those “reasons”.

It’s really no secret these are the voters Democrats court and often win over. As long as they can “help” such troubled consciences find enough excuses to vote against their values, they’ll be in good shape come November.
 
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