Sanders Thread

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The Iraq War became a disaster only when we pulled out. We had it won. Al Quaeda admitted it and so did Obama. Iraq had a chance, even in the civil strife. One remembers that Ayatollah Sistani even instructed Shiites to not only not harm their Sunni neighbors, but to shield them and help them rebuild if terrorists struck them.

Iraq had a good chance, but Obama threw it away.

Saddam repeatedly broke the truce after Phase I of the war, by strafing Shiites, gassing Kurds and shooting at American and British planes. He tried to assassinate Bush I. He paid parents to have their children blow themselves up to kill Israeli civilians. He started two aggressive wars, one of them involving dozens of nations.

Saddam might not have posed an imminent threat to any Americans other than American pilots and former presidents, but he not only posed a threat to his neighbors, he posed one to his own people as well.

Oh yes, and the last discovery of chemical weapons in Iraq was in 2015. The one before that was in 2013. I doubt they have found them all even now.
 
Alex_H said:
Hey, Sanders people – Does Bernie still have a shot to lock up the nomination? If no, then why is he still running?
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Maybe he has a shot, I don’t know. I don’t buy that it’s impossible for him to win, that’s just the Democratic party trying to reign things in. I assume he is still running because there is a chance.

As of right now, I’m voting for him in the general election regardless of who gets the nomination. I couldn’t care less about unity in the Democratic party. I don’t owe them or the republicans anything.
 
J_Peterson said:
Maybe he has a shot, I don’t know. I don’t buy that it’s impossible for him to win, that’s just the Democratic party trying to reign things in. I assume he is still running because there is a chance.

As of right now, I’m voting for him in the general election regardless of who gets the nomination. I couldn’t care less about unity in the Democratic party. I don’t owe them or the republicans anything.
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I agree that he doesn’t have a shot. He is staying in for the leverage he will have with all the voters he has gotten to perhaps get some of what he wants in the mix. If that does not happen, I foresee many of his voters staying home rather than vote for Hillary.
 
Vouthon said:
My country has single - payer healthcare and government funded university education at undergraduate level (tuition fees are paid for).

So how can one say that this is “not” attainable?

Single - payer is very much attainable, the only barrier is the vast opposition to it in the States. The latter might be more tricky and perhaps unlikely for such a huge country as the US, granted - but to claim impossibility is missing the mark IMHO.
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The insurance companies, among others, here always shuts down any talk of a single-payer system. It would be good for the public, though. The World Health Organization ranks the UK above the US in quality health care.
 
Alex_H said:
Hey, Sanders people – Does Bernie still have a shot to lock up the nomination? If no, then why is he still running?
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Mathematically, yes, realistically, no. He’s running in the hope of that outside chance, I guess.

If Sanders could garner a lot of delegates in the remaining states, he would have a case to present to the super delegates that they should leave Hillary’s camp and join his because he is more electable. He probably will garner quite a few votes, but Hillary will probably wrap things up before the convention, then the super delegates will not abandon her.
 
Good_Tidings said:
Lily, I don’t think that he does have a chance mathematically He’s running on a miracle now. .
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I thought he did have a mathematical chance, but I could be wrong. If he doesn’t then he’s just hoping to do well and woo the super delegates away from Hillary, but I see her winning big in Pennsylvania and California, so I, too, think realistically, Bernie is out of miracles.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I thought he did have a mathematical chance, but I could be wrong. If he doesn’t then he’s just hoping to do well and woo the super delegates away from Hillary, but I see her winning big in Pennsylvania and California, so I, too, think realistically, Bernie is out of miracles.
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I agree. Steve Kornaki on MSNBC laid out the best case scenario for a Sander win and It was glum even before New York. He factored in a win there and still couldn’t take the nomination. With the loss, it’s even worse.
 
Good_Tidings said:
I agree. Steve Kornaki on MSNBC laid out the best case scenario for a Sander win and It was glum even before New York. He factored in a win there and still couldn’t take the nomination. With the loss, it’s even worse.
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Even with a win? Wow! That is glum for Bernie. I saw him on the news when he returned to Vermont after the New York primary, and he did not look at all happy. I was sort of surprised to see him in Pennsylvania the next day.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Even with a win? Wow! That is glum for Bernie. I saw him on the news when he returned to Vermont after the New York primary, and he did not look at all happy. I was sort of surprised to see him in Pennsylvania the next day.
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I don’t think his run has been wasted. He will be a strong voice in the Senate. If the Republicans put up Trump or Cruz there is a good chance to take the Senate back. Maybe between him and Elizabeth Warren some much needed discussions will be taking place.
 
Good_Tidings said:
I don’t think his run has been wasted. He will be a strong voice in the Senate. If the Republicans put up Trump or Cruz there is a good chance to take the Senate back. Maybe between him and Elizabeth Warren some much needed discussions will be taking place.
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Yes, and perhaps we’re getting a glimpse of what the Democratic party will look like in the future. Now that Bernie has drawn attention to the issues he’s addressed, I don’t think that genie is going back in the bottle. Bernie’s legacy will be his outspokenness about such topics – and his followers don’t want to shut down these conversations in the future.
 
Good_Tidings said:
I don’t think his run has been wasted. He will be a strong voice in the Senate. If the Republicans put up Trump or Cruz there is a good chance to take the Senate back. Maybe between him and Elizabeth Warren some much needed discussions will be taking place.
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I think both Sanders and Trump have served a good purpose. They’ve shown Washington that the public is sick and tired of being ignored at the expense of “insiders.” If an outsider doesn’t win this year, and I guess the only real outsider is Trump, then I think an outsider will have a good chance in the next election. Both Sanders and Trump are exposing many defects in both parties and sending a message to Washington to “clean up its act.”
 
anon67074017 said:
I am glad that Sanders lost again. We Americans do not want to live under socialism.
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Speak for yourself. We’re already living with some elements of socialism, and Sanders’ brand of it? Yes, please – I’ll gladly have a big helping of that.
 
gracepoole said:
Speak for yourself. We’re already living with some elements of socialism, and Sanders’ brand of it? Yes, please – I’ll gladly have a big helping of that.
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If you’ll pardon me, I don’t want to be forced to pay for that helping. I’m not ever going to be in Sanders’ 90% tax bracket, but neither do I believe he would limit himself to taxing the truly rich. That’s not where the money is. The big money is in the middle class because of the numbers and because it’s very difficult for us to legally avoid paying on 100% of our resource gains.

Seems to me we have plenty enough socialism right now. What we really need are jobs, but the harassment of the middle class, particularly of small business that create most of the jobs, stifles job creation.
 
Ridgerunner said:
If you’ll pardon me, I don’t want to be forced to pay for that helping. I’m not ever going to be in Sanders’ 90% tax bracket, but neither do I believe he would limit himself to taxing the truly rich. That’s not where the money is. The big money is in the middle class because of the numbers and because it’s very difficult for us to legally avoid paying on 100% of our resource gains.

Seems to me we have plenty enough socialism right now. What we really need are jobs, but the harassment of the middle class, particularly of small business that create most of the jobs, stifles job creation.
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Happy to pardon you. 🙂 I simply hate it when people reference “we Americans” and make grand generalizations about all of us. Clearly we don’t all share the same views. If we did, I imagine this election would be far more pleasant.

(And for what it’s worth, I don’t have a problem with my taxes going up to help pay for social programs. But then, I’m not a Republican)
 
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