Saturated fat DOESN’T cause heart disease after all: Scientists say foods such as butter have been unfairly demonised

[Deus_tecum]

In the U.S., the meat that you buy in a store is almost certainly processed, in that it will be high fat, have residual chemicals, etc. Even the “low-fat” cuts are not really low fat; they play that “grams” game this way they can hide the caloric content. You will find nothing in a grocery store that resembles wild game (excepting specialty shops…and it won’t be cheap). Not only that, in many areas one can’t buy wild game at all. I personally do not eat red meat at all.

I am not saying that most grocery store beef and pork are natural, or organic, but this statement of yours makes no sense. “the meat that you buy in a store is almost certainly processed, in that it will be high fat,”. How does the presence of fat indicate processing? Your definition of processing seems way off everyone else’s. Unless a beef roast is injected with vegetable oil it is not processed, but at least I know what you mean when you say it.

I do wish antibiotics and growth hormones were not allowed. I would prefer to eat only grass fed beef, and pork, but they are not widely available, nor reasonably priced.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I am not saying that most grocery store beef and pork are natural, or organic, but this statement of yours makes no sense. “the meat that you buy in a store is almost certainly processed, in that it will be high fat,”. How does the presence of fat indicate processing? Your definition of processing seems way off everyone else’s. Unless a beef roast is injected with vegetable oil it is not processed, but at least I know what you mean when you say it.

I do wish antibiotics and growth hormones were not allowed. I would prefer to eat only grass fed beef, and pork, but they are not widely available, nor reasonably priced.

You can substitute “processed” with whatever word fits your definition set. What meat is found in a store is not the type of meat found in nature; it is treated and far less healthy. The whole Paleo diet craze is about get away from that type of thing.

 

[qui_est_ce]

This is probably the best site on the internet for low-carb dieting.

They cover all the diets and provide up to date research as well as discussions to help people along with learning about nutrition.

Jim

Thanks.

 

[qui_est_ce]

You can substitute “processed” with whatever word fits your definition set. What meat is found in a store is not the type of meat found in nature; it is treated and far less healthy. The whole Paleo diet craze is about get away from that type of thing.

You can take your definition of “processed” one step further. NOTHING in our diet is natural. It is all processed with chemical fertiziliers, chemically treated water, and mechanical harvesting methods.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

You can take your definition of “processed” one step further. NOTHING in our diet is natural. It is all processed with chemical fertiziliers, chemically treated water, and mechanical harvesting methods.

It’s good to see that you are starting to see the big picture. The further our diet gets away from nature, the less healthier mankind becomes. The huge increase in eating processed carbs, saturated fats, etc. is showing up in more disease (especially chronic) and ever increasing health-care costs.

 

[qui_est_ce]

It’s good to see that you are starting to see the big picture. The further our diet gets away from nature, the less healthier mankind becomes. The huge increase in eating processed carbs, saturated fats, etc. is showing up in more disease (especially chronic) and ever increasing health-care costs.

We’re all doomed!!

Really, though, processing food has dramatically increased the availability and the variety of food to the world as never before.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

TheWarriorMonk;

There’s no point in arguing this. I have firsthand experience dealing with Chinese people outside of westernized areas of China. I know what I saw (hundreds of thousands of people in various cities), I know what they eat, and I know what they have told me firsthand.

The Chinese engineers I’ve worked with come from the rural areas of China as well as metropolitan areas. Their consumption of meat was no different here in the US, except that it came from a market instead of a farm or open air market.

This is what they told me, not what you’re opinion based on your experience with Chinese living in America.

A pork loin is a luxury, and we never had such a thing at a meal. Yes, there will be some meat in meals, usually chopped up and used a condiment. This first time I saw a pile of meat on a plate was in Guangzhou, in a restaurant catering to the wealthier locals and foreigners.

Pork and chicken was a main meal in the Hangzhou area of China where they currently live. As I said, some grew up on farms in the rural areas and meat is in their diet regularly.

I live in a major metro area with plenty of Chinese, and have yet to come across a restaurant that resembles anything like what I ate over there. 99.99% of the restaurants have cuisine from specific areas of China, such as Guangzhou (Canton). I have yet to see anything anywhere in the United States that remotely resembles the true cuisine of such Provinces as Jiangxi, Hunan, and Szechuan. True Hunan cuisine is simply stunning.

Ah, Canton is different than other parts of China. In fact, their dialect isn’t even understood by Mandarin Speaking Chinese, and quiet frankly, they have much prejudice against each other.

Also, the traditional Chinese restaurants where we took our engineers, in Boston, were run by Chinese and served traditional Chinese food, and this was confirmed by the Chinese engineers. For myself, much was too spicy, which they like.

You do realize rice is not popular in all areas of China. Correct? That statement indicates that the people you met are probably from the southern, Cantonese-speaking, westernized areas of China.

Hangzhou is central China. All were Mandarin Chinese.

An incredibly small sample, combined with no personal experience.

Ah, but being my managers traveled extensively through China, and we had multiple engineers here, as well as our manufacturing plant in Wing Ming, my experience with them and what their dietary staples are is enough.

If you look hard enough, you will find research that supports anything you want. I will read studies, but that is not enough. I have to see it in practice. Talking about Chinese, Shaolin Monks eat very high carb, low-fat, vegetarian diets…and their not in bad shape.

Shaolin Monks, are you serious? Most Chinese do not follow the diets of Shaolin Monks.

BTW, I go on retreat and visit a local Trappist Monastery, where they’re vegetarians, i.e. high carb.

Not all the monks are skinny, several are over-weight, despite the low-fat high-carb diet they live on.

But we’re not talking about following monastic diets here, but the fact that eating saturated fat, does not make you fat.

Anyway, I’ve said all I have to say about it.

The research is refuting your arguments and myself and others have put up the research articles, you have not, just expressed your own personal opinion.

Unsubscribing, it’s getting redundant.

Jim

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

The Chinese engineers I’ve worked with come from the rural areas of China as well as metropolitan areas. Their consumption of meat was no different here in the US, except that it came from a market instead of a farm or open air market.

The amount of meat eaten is obviously different, as I’ve repeated noted. Go there yourself and see. It’s also common sense. Meat is a luxury item…expensive…and takes tremendous amounts of resources. Obvious that Chinese don’t use a similar amount of resources as we do, because that would require exceeding the planet’s energy capacity.

This is what they told me, nhot what you’re opinion based on your experience with Chinese living in America.

If secondhand experience from thousands of miles away from a few people trumps firsthand experience, it goes a long way toward explaining why these threads continue on endlessly.

Shaolin Monks, are you serious? Most Chinese do not follow the diets of Shaolin Monks.

Maybe they should. There high-carb, low-fat diets seem to suit good health.

BTW, I go on retreat and visit a local Trappist Monastery, where they’re vegetarians, i.e. high carb.

Not all the monks are skinny, several are over-weight, despite the low-fat high-carb diet they live on.

That’s because they don’t exercise. The same was true of Shaolin Temple before Bodhidarma arrived and got them to exercise.

But we’re not talking about following monastic diets here, but the fact that eating saturated fat, does not make you fat.

That’s just false, and simply defies common sense. It’s like saying protein doesn’t build muscle.

High-fat diets cause people to get fat, as do high-processed-carb diets. In many western countries, people eat foods that are processed and high in fats, and…“shock”…they’re fat.

The research is refuting your arguments and myself and others have put up the research articles, you have not, just expressed your own personal opinion.

You mean you believe a particular study refutes all other studies.

 

[Bluesprite333]

I’ll tell you what. Eat only at McDonald’s for six months, which will provide you with plenty of saturated fats.

Then for the next six months after that, eat nothing but corn and potatoes.

During each experiment, have your blood examined each week. Report back the results, and we’ll continue the discussion.

FWIW, I’ve done such experiments on myself, so some of my opinions on the matter come from first hand experience. A family member (body builder) has also done the same, so I am also familiar with the effects of high-protein diets on the body.

Sorry - not to interrupt here, but I have to say something as I study nutrition.

You cannot equate “fried” foods to what this study is stating. Frying anything causes chemical changes in the structure of the food that often release chemicals known to be carcinogens, etc. Additionally, McDonalds, is hardly a representation of simply, saturated fat. Their food is known to have gone through myriads of processing, so essentially “McDonalds” equates to plenty of refined carbohydrates as well as polyunsaturated fatty acids which are less structurally sound upon heating.

Saturated fat is generally speaking, fats that are solid at room temperature. This would include fats derived from animals.

It’s good to see that science is beginning to recognize that saturated fat is not the be-all “evil” is was once purported to be. The problem is, people often unknowingly correlate saturated fat with “unhealthy” because they equate it to foods like “McDonalds” as you did above. Unfortunately this is not accurate.

What this study found, was that eating saturated fat, did not correlate with heart disease - that’s pretty much it. It’s worth noting and I believe, of significance in the nutritional field.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

What this study found, was that eating saturated fat, did not correlate with heart disease - that’s pretty much it. It’s worth noting and I believe, of significance in the nutritional field.

Can you explain why you would believe a study like this over, say, a study involve relatively large groups of people over several generations that draws a different conclusion (e.g., Framingham)?

For some reason, people love to focus on single-cause/single-effect issues, and miss the big picture.

 

[Deus_tecum]

TheWarriorMonk: Please explain how people are able to lose weight by eliminating grains, and sugar from their diet, but not eliminating fats. You keep saying fat in the diet makes people fat, but how can this be so when people who eat some fat but not much carbs lose weight? Please skip the diatribe on what’s best for the heart or longevity and only address what I asked you, for the sake of brevity.

 

[qui_est_ce]

TheWarriorMonk: Please explain how people are able to lose weight by eliminating grains, and sugar from their diet, but not eliminating fats. You keep saying fat in the diet makes people fat, but how can this be so when people who eat some fat but not much carbs lose weight? Please skip the diatribe on what’s best for the heart or longevity and only address what I asked you, for the sake of brevity.

I’ll check back in in 6 months when I get my next blood tests.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

TheWarriorMonk: Please explain how people are able to lose weight by eliminating grains, and sugar from their diet, but not eliminating fats. You keep saying fat in the diet makes people fat, but how can this be so when people who eat some fat but not much carbs lose weight? Please skip the diatribe on what’s best for the heart or longevity and only address what I asked you, for the sake of brevity.

I can absolutely explain why, since I have firsthand experience with this. If you want further advice, you can seek the advice of a D.O. with a nutrition background, various “holistic” nutritionists, doctors with an eastern background (who understand the effects of nutrition on the body, versus western doctors who tend to have little to no nutritional training), etc.

The key word is: “processed.”

One does not need to eliminate grains from the diet. One, however, does need to eliminated processed grains. Processed grains are stripped of their fiber, vitamins, and minerals, and are metabolized differently in the body compared to unprocessed grains. The same is true of sugars.

People have been eating relatively large amounts of grains since the Neolithic Age. The problems with grains, sugars, and weight are relatively modern, excepting various small population groups, such as royalty, that ate processed foods (note: only the wealthy ate them, because processed them on a mass scale was difficult prior to the industrial age).

Some people do not get fat eating fats. In many cases, that is due to eating a low-processed-carb, high-protein diet (the diet also tends to be low-fiber, which creates another set of problems). This simply has to do with the way body metabolizes protein (thermogenesis). You can lose weight on such a diet; body-builders often do this; so do the Paleo folks. It is not recommend for long term health. I actually have a relative (bodybuilder) who went on such a diet, and had his blood work done weekly to see the effects. Yes, he looked great, but it was adversely affecting his kidney and liver (esp.) function.

 

[Bluesprite333]

Can you explain why you would believe a study like this over, say, a study involve relatively large groups of people over several generations that draws a different conclusion (e.g., Framingham)?

For some reason, people love to focus on single-cause/single-effect issues, and miss the big picture.

Sure thing.

To answer your question, this study looked at evidence from 80 prior studies involving roughly half a million people and formed their analysis based on that - that’s a fairly large sample size if you ask me. They also reviewed data from 27 controlled trials and found no correlation between saturated fat and heart disease.

I feel that definitely embraces the big picture.

 

[jediliz]

I’ve cut out most overly processed foods from my diet due to what I have learned from my Chiropractor. I don’t really cook (I don’t know how to cook very many things) so I eat frozen meals sometimes… I used to buy food from Schwans every so often, too. I stopped doing that.

I used to eat Healthy Choice, Marie Callender’s, sometimes Banquet…until I started really reading labels. Trans fats (partially hydrogenated oils), ingredients I can’t pronounce…FISH in a spaghetti and meatballs meal (yes, anchovies along with beef…YUCK!)…I cut back because I am trying to get serious about my health. Except for exercise which I still lack…I am getting better.

I used to eat a family sized bag of doritos every so often (not every week - maybe every two months) - stopped buying those because of the dyes and the GMO ingredients. Cheetos are out (I found an alternative in a brand called Barbara’s bakery that is just as good).

We have an obesity problem in this country - much of this is due to processed foods - purchased because its cheaper than buying organic produce and cooking real food at home.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Sure thing.

To answer your question, this study looked at evidence from 80 prior studies involving roughly half a million people and formed their analysis based on that - that’s a fairly large sample size if you ask me. They also reviewed data from 27 controlled trials and found no correlation between saturated fat and heart disease.

I feel that definitely embraces the big picture.

The Big Picture: Nearly all natural saturated fat sources are associated with sources of cholesterol (which is not needed from dietary sources; since the human body manufactures all it needs), saturated fats affect LDL levels; clogged arteries have substances such as calcium/fat/cholesterol/etc.

But I assume none of this matters anyone due to this study. Everybody can now just chow down on saturated fat…

I’m glad my dad didn’t listen…he’s already outlived his brothers by more than three decades. He changed his high-fat, high protein diet several decades ago, and didn’t die of a heart attack in his 40’s like them.

 

[Deus_tecum]

The WarriorMonk: Well, I do not eat a high protein or high fat diet. As I explained earlier in this thread, I recommend a normal portion of meat, and two vegetables per meal, but no potatoes or grain, and of course nothing with sugar added or artificial sweeteners, and of course nothing with MSG.

By the way, whole grains have been hybridized for years and are not the same as what people ate years ago. If one does eat bread, it is better to eat 100% whole wheat bread but not much better. It’s made from the same wheat. It still metabolizes fairly quickly to blood sugar. What happens when there is too much blood sugar? It gets turned to fat and stored. I did the whole grain route, and the low fat route before. I never lost weight no matter how much I worked or exercised.

I have no idea where you get the idea that one who eats 6 servings of vegetables per day is not getting enough fiber.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

By the way, whole grains have been hybridized for years and are not the same as what people ate years ago. If one does eat bread, it is better to eat 100% whole wheat bread but not much better.

Why bread? Why not just buy the grain in bulk and cook it?

What happens when there is too much blood sugar? It gets turned to fat and stored.

What happens when there is too much saturated fat in the blood? Does it evaporate from one’s pores?

I did the whole grain route, and the low fat route before. I never lost weight no matter how much I worked or exercised.

To each their own. My weight PLUMMETS when I go on such a diet (I just started it again because I need to get back down to my fighting weight for my next sash test). My wife eats like that all the time. Last time she had blood work done the doctor nearly fell out of his chair when he saw her cholesterol level. She in the range where one can essentially eliminate the possibility of dying from a heart attack (sub-150).

I have no idea where you get the idea that one who eats 6 servings of vegetables per day is not getting enough fiber.

I have no idea where you got that statement. Please cite where I stated that.

 

[Bluesprite333]

The Big Picture: Nearly all natural saturated fat sources are associated with sources of cholesterol (which is not needed from dietary sources; since the human body manufactures all it needs), saturated fats affect LDL levels; clogged arteries have substances such as calcium/fat/cholesterol/etc.

But I assume none of this matters anyone due to this study. Everybody can now just chow down on saturated fat…

I’m glad my dad didn’t listen…he’s already outlived his brothers by more than three decades. He changed his high-fat, high protein diet several decades ago, and didn’t die of a heart attack in his 40’s like them.

Yes saturated fat does affect cholesterol levels - and usually it will increase LDL levels. However not all LDL is created equally. Some LDL are the small dense particles that are known to clog arteries (pattern B), and some are larger, light fluffy particles that are generally benign (not artery clogging) and know as pattern A. Additionally, HDL levels usually increase with saturated fat intake, which is known as the “good” cholesterol. So it’s not as simple as simply saying saturated fat increases cholesterol and that’s bad - it’s far more complex than that.

I am happy your dad followed a diet that works for him - that’s the best anyone can do as there is no one diet, or mode of eating (I feel) that is perfect. However I feel it’s important to recognize the data, and to examine the data for what it is. Generally, the populace’s health is declining and obesity is a severe problem in the U.S. The “low-fat” diet craze that so many have embraced, has clearly not worked. Of course that can also be attributable to the fact that many have replaced fat, with refined carbs and sugars which we now know, lead to inflammation.

Regardless…no one is saying eating low-fat is bad. It generally is true, that for most people, eating whole foods prepared from scratch, is generally a safe bet. However science is beginning to embrace the idea that that can mean low-fat or higher-fat (avoiding of course, trans-fats which only occur through heat/chemical intervention). And of course exercise and alleviating stress where necessary is also key. I don’t feel there is one magic bullet that will save anyone, and we are always learning more about the human body each day. But from a scientific standpoint however, I feel it’s important to recognize this study for its findings, as they are significant in the dietetics arena.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

The “low-fat” diet craze that so many have embraced, has clearly not worked. Of course that can also be attributable to the fact that many have replaced fat, with refined carbs and sugars which we now know, lead to inflammation.

Exactly…it’s not the low-fat diet that is the problem. It’s the low-fat, HIGH PROCESSED CARB diet that is the problem

The low-fat, high NATURAL (unprocessed) carb diet is exactly what is used in various programs to get people to lose weight, reverse heart disease, cure Type-II diabetes (such as my own brother did), etc.