Saturated fat DOESN’T cause heart disease after all: Scientists say foods such as butter have been unfairly demonised

[Deus_tecum]

The WarriorMonk: Answers and comment are in bold.

"Why bread? Why not just buy the grain in bulk and cook it?
**The grain is from hybridization, and GMO, so it has the same problems as store bought grain products. **

“What happens when there is too much saturated fat in the blood? Does it evaporate from one’s pores?”
**This was your response to a question about carbs raising blood sugar. You know that it is true which is why you avoided the question and added a “grin” to your question. **

You are playing games, and I am done with that. God bless you.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

“What happens when there is too much saturated fat in the blood? Does it evaporate from one’s pores?”

**This was your response to a question about carbs raising blood sugar. You know that it is true which is why you avoided the question and added a “grin” to your question. **

Fat, especially saturated fats, play just as important a role in blood sugar levels. Fats interfere with the insulin receptor sites. If the receptor sites are blocked, insulin will not work properly.

That’s why programs designed to CURE, not treat, Type II diabetes eliminate processed carbs and lower fat levels (esp. saturated). In fact, it happens so fast that one taking insulin should not do this without medical supervision.

You are playing games, and I am done with that. God bless you.

FWIW, I’ve been given such advice for decades, after being asked. Nobody listens. Yet I’m the one that exercises, eat rights, takes martial arts, and the friends who asked me for advice are one meds, have immune disfunction, or have died.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Lastly, a major problem with these studies that it is simply not possible to isolate factors in the manner medical research attempts to do. The human body does not simply act in the manner of single-cause/single-effect. It acts in the manner of many-cause/many-effect.

Years ago, I used to study a lot of medical research, and came to the realization I “knew” a lot of things, and could spew of a bunch of “facts.” A lot of people knew a lot of facts also, such a doctors, yet their patients that the treated were unhealthy and weren’t getting better anyway. They knew how to treat a particular issue, but often it would involve making other issues worse, keeping the patient forever dependent anyway.

The above is what I refer to as the “top-down” view. Basically, people cause damage to themselves, and the the doctor deals with the issue after it happens. I start with the “botton-up” view, where the discussion starts with what man should be acting and how he should be acting in his natural environment. From that POV, the question does not start with “does saturated fat cause heart disease,” but rather “why is man eating saturated fats in large amounts when that doesn’t occur in nature.”

A consistent theme you will see in regard to mankind’s health is that in 99% of cases (e.g., excepting acute genetic defects, etc.), it is due to man acting in a manner that is not natural, be it lack of exercise, eating high-fat meats, etc.

 

[Ridgerunner]

A consistent theme you will see in regard to mankind’s health is that in 99% of cases (e.g., excepting acute genetic defects, etc.), it is due to man acting in a manner that is not natural, be it lack of exercise, eating high-fat meats, etc.

But what makes anyone think primitive men did not eat high fat meats? If one reads about the diets of early Europeans on the Eurasian plain, that’s about all they had. If one reads about the diets of Indians, they opted for fat every time they could get it. Eastern woodland Indians had a particular hunting season for bears because bears were fattest at that time, and Indians wanted to eat that fat. Plains tribes knew which buffalo were tender and fatty, and selected for them. Plains tribe pemmican contained a great deal of animal fat. Some African tribes used to hunt elephants (some still do) because elephants have a much higher fat content than other game.

I don’t think we can reasonably conclude that humans developed on fruits and grains. Perhaps some did, but some very definitely did not.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Warrior: Please explain what you consider to be a high fat diet. How many grams per day? I sort of get the feeling you think eating any meat in a day makes one’s diet “high fat”.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

But what makes anyone think primitive men did not eat high fat meats?

Because it didn’t exist. They ate wild game; not the farm-raised, chemically treated meats we eat today.

If one reads about the diets of early Europeans on the Eurasian plain, that’s about all they had. If one reads about the diets of Indians, they opted for fat every time they could get it. Eastern woodland Indians had a particular hunting season for bears because bears were fattest at that time, and Indians wanted to eat that fat. Plains tribes knew which buffalo were tender and fatty, and selected for them. Plains tribe pemmican contained a great deal of animal fat. Some African tribes used to hunt elephants (some still do) because elephants have a much higher fat content than other game.

Fat was more of a delicacy, and during certain seasons a necessity for survival. It wasn’t something to be eaten at every meal year round.

Furthermore, if you do your research, you’ll also find that various primitive tribes that do eat high-fat diets do get build-up in their cardiovascular system. The difference is that they get more far, far exercise, and often die before heart disease sets in.

I don’t think we can reasonably conclude that humans developed on fruits and grains. Perhaps some did, but some very definitely did not.

It is widely believed that the agriculture that developed during the Neolithic Age is what allowed modern man to become what he is today. Compare the societies of hunter-gatherers to those primitive tribes that practice agriculture.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Warrior: Please explain what you consider to be a high fat diet. How many grams per day? I sort of get the feeling you think eating any meat in a day makes one’s diet “high fat”.

I honestly have not broken it down to that level of exactness. Most Americans eat a high-fat diet, otherwise they wouldn’t be fat in the first place. Personally, I’ve been experimenting with diet for so long I know my own balance point, as I start to crave fats once my body becomes deficient in essential fatty acids.

 

[Vico]

I honestly have not broken it down to that level of exactness. Most Americans eat a high-fat diet, otherwise they wouldn’t be fat in the first place. Personally, I’ve been experimenting with diet for so long I know my own balance point, as I start to crave fats once my body becomes deficient in essential fatty acids.

USDA Food Patterns, 2000 calorie daily: 27g oil + 16g solid fat = 43g or 19% of total calories.

Usual US intake Adults, 2000 calorie daily: 18g oil + 43g solid fat = 61g or 27% of total calories.

health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2010.asp

 

[Deus_tecum]

USDA Food Patterns, 2000 calorie daily: 27g oil + 16g solid fat = 43g or 19% of total calories.

Usual US intake Adults, 2000 calorie daily: 18g oil + 43g solid fat = 61g or 27% of total calories.

health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2010.asp

Interesting. Well there is ample proof that people lose weight very steadily by removing a great deal of carbs from their diet without changing their fat intake.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I just find it ironic that a source that says to reduce saturated fats is utilized, given the title of this thread.

 

[pnewton]

So if we have decades of studies showing one thing, then one study (which is not linked or referenced, interestingly enough) shows something else, then the Daily Mail announces it as fact, thus grabbing a headline and lots of hits from people who want to believe that something they like is good for them. If the medical community can replicate and support this study, then it might be news. Too many one-shot studies have been found to be erroneous either due to methodology or the desire of those involved to gain prominence and/or grant money.

I note that the world is becoming more and more obese. I would say that the need to cut fats remain. Does anyone really think being fat is not a health risk factor?

 

[tomarin]

So if we have decades of studies showing one thing, then one study (which is not linked or referenced, interestingly enough) shows something else, then the Daily Mail announces it as fact, thus grabbing a headline and lots of hits from people who want to believe that something they like is good for them. If the medical community can replicate and support this study, then it might be news. Too many one-shot studies have been found to be erroneous either due to methodology or the desire of those involved to gain prominence and/or grant money.

I note that the world is becoming more and more obese. I would say that the need to cut fats remain. Does anyone really think being fat is not a health risk factor?

To be fair though, the question on many people’s minds is not whether being fat is unhealthy, it’s whether dietary fat contributes to body fat. In my experience it’s the processed carbs that cause me to gain weight, not saturated fats.

 

[pnewton]

To be fair though, the question on many people’s minds is not whether being fat is unhealthy, it’s whether dietary fat contributes to body fat.

It is a good question. I guess as I see it, the chemistry of our body doesn’t change with research. Saturated fats by their very nature do not get broken up and are more prone to go into storage (as solids)than the more reactive unsaturated fats.

 

[qui_est_ce]

It is a good question. I guess as I see it, the chemistry of our body doesn’t change with research. Saturated fats by their very nature do not get broken up and are more prone to go into storage (as solids)than the more reactive unsaturated fats.

According to studies, the body does not metabolize dietary fat into stored fat. Dietary fat does not cause an increase in insulin. Carbs increase insulin. Insulin is what turns excess glucose into stored fat.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Because it didn’t exist. They ate wild game; not the farm-raised, chemically treated meats we eat today. **A lot of wild game is quite fatty. Some isn’t. **

Fat was more of a delicacy, and during certain seasons a necessity for survival. It wasn’t something to be eaten at every meal year round. People have to eat fat or die, and they have to do it regularly. Remember the “rabbit starvation” some suffered in the old west? Rabbits have very little fat, and if a person tried to live on them, he would soon die.

Furthermore, if you do your research, you’ll also find that various primitive tribes that do eat high-fat diets do get build-up in their cardiovascular system. The difference is that they get more far, far exercise, and often die before heart disease sets in. Perhaps you could give us the citations to the studies on this.

It is widely believed that the agriculture that developed during the Neolithic Age is what allowed modern man to become what he is today. Compare the societies of hunter-gatherers to those primitive tribes that practice agriculture.

Not all ancestors of modern man went from hunter/gathering to farming. The ancestors of modern northern, central and eastern Europeans were herdsmen for thousands of years; far longer than they were farmers, and even now Europeans are big meat-eaters. There are more cattle in Ireland, for example, than there are people. And those herding societies were hardly “primitive” if you look at their artwork. They were more skilled at metalwork, for example, than were the ancient Greeks, who sought out the wares of people like the ancient Celts, Sarmatians, etc. And just as an aside, the reason why the goat was the symbol of the Greek people was that they ate a lot of goats and goat products like cheese. In a quip to some of his men who were nervous about facing the Persians, Alexander told them not to worry because the Persians would not be able to stand “…the very smell of goat that clings to us.”

Julius Caesar opined that the stature and vigor of the Teutons was due to the fact that they ate virtually nothing but cattle and wild game. He might have been mistaken in that cause/effect relationship, but he was certainly not mistaken as to what constituted their diets.

 

[tomarin]

According to studies, the body does not metabolize dietary fat into stored fat. Dietary fat does not cause an increase in insulin. Carbs increase insulin. Insulin is what turns excess glucose into stored fat.

This was my understanding. The dietary fat has to be digested first, doesn’t it, before it can be turned into anything?

 

[mjwise]

So if we have decades of studies showing one thing, then one study (which is not linked or referenced, interestingly enough) shows something else, then the Daily Mail announces it as fact, thus grabbing a headline and lots of hits from people who want to believe that something they like is good for them. If the medical community can replicate and support this study, then it might be news. Too many one-shot studies have been found to be erroneous either due to methodology or the desire of those involved to gain prominence and/or grant money.

I note that the world is becoming more and more obese. I would say that the need to cut fats remain. Does anyone really think being fat is not a health risk factor?

Fat, protein, and carbs are our sources of energy (Calories). A little over two years ago, I realized I was getting just a little heavy for my frame. I looked at some online counters and calculations to get estimates of what my energy intake should be and counted calories each and every day with a smartphone app. I lost about 35 pounds in about 6 months and took my BMI from borderline overweight to smack dab in the middle of normal. I made no effort to avoid any particular food other than truly empty sugars like pop. I exercised and exercise daily for at least 20 minutes. This is not rocket science. Americans get fatter because bad Calories are quite cheap, provide short term pleasure, and also because a sedentary lifestyle is common.

Americans are not getting fat off of fine steaks or even hamburgers. We got fat off of sugar and ingesting more Calories than we expend. Substituting more sugar for the fat (which was really part and parcel of the “low fat” craze c. 1980’s-1990’s) didn’t and won’t help.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

According to studies, the body does not metabolize dietary fat into stored fat. Dietary fat does not cause an increase in insulin. Carbs increase insulin. Insulin is what turns excess glucose into stored fat.

Dietary fat, however, does affect how insulin is utilized by the body, since it can block insulin receptor sites…which in turn affects blood sugar levels. Some of the lock-down programs for unhealthy people know this. Constant monitoring of insulin levels is necessary for people on insulin in such programs, because a major reduction in fat intact often means a major reduction in insulin usage by the body.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

To be fair though, the question on many people’s minds is not whether being fat is unhealthy, it’s whether dietary fat contributes to body fat. In my experience it’s the processed carbs that cause me to gain weight, not saturated fats.

It’s both, IMHO and experience.

Some people CAN lose weight on a high-fat diet, but it’s not the fat that it doing it. The Paleo diet is such an example. If one goes on a high-protein diet, chances are their fat intake will also go up. But if one eliminates processed carbs at the same time, and factor in thermogenesis, it means less calories available for the body. If those calories available are less than the body’s daily need, one will lose weight. I personally don’t recommend the Paleo diet long term, but it can be okay for short term weight loss is one is otherwise healthy.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Dietary fat, however, does affect how insulin is utilized by the body, since it can block insulin receptor sites…which in turn affects blood sugar levels. Some of the lock-down programs for unhealthy people know this. Constant monitoring of insulin levels is necessary for people on insulin in such programs, because a major reduction in fat intact often means a major reduction in insulin usage by the body.

This is true. That’s why it’s not fattening to eat fat! Insulin is what turns glucose into stored fat. Eating fat does not raise insulin levels. When there is no insulin in the blood, the body has to go to stored fat for energy (Ketones).