Saturated fat DOESN’T cause heart disease after all: Scientists say foods such as butter have been unfairly demonised

[TheWarriorMonk]

All the latest research shows that fat does not make you fat.

Take a trip to China; walk around and observe the people, and examine what they eat.

Then go to the U.S.; walk around and observe the people, and examine what they eat.

I find it amazing that fat does not make one fat, but the country that eats a much higher fat content is the one that has the much, much fatter people. And the one eating the high complex carbohydrate, low protein, low fat diet aren’t.

1 gram of fat = 4 calories,

Nope. 1 gram of fat = 9 calories, which is more than double the caloric content of carbs.

but it’s almost impossible to over eat the calories in fat to have you gain weight. A 180 lb man needs 1800 calories to maintain his weight. To eat more than 1800 calories in fat is near impossible. Also, fat satisfies hunger where a person doesn’t feel the need to over eat in calories.

If that is the case, given that fat has more than twice the caloric content of carbs, it would be “2x near impossible” to overeat carbs.

Here’s an article, one of many which supports my statement that you find so outrageous.

Research tends to focus on single-cause/single-effect, which is why they completely miss the big picture, and people keep getting fatter and unhealthier. Common sense dictates that eating what is found in a natural environment will create the best health. That’s why the Chinese and other Asian countries are eating high-carb diets are thin, and Americans eat high-fat diets are fat. And is should be noted it’s not due to genes; Asians eating American diets are just as fat as Americans.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Too much blood sugar is harmful so an insulin response is triggered to store the excess carbs as body fat. If you have excess body fat, why put more carbs in your body each day? Why not burn the stored energy that you have which is body fat? That’s why it got stored; so you could use it later.

Too much fat will also screw up one’s insulin response, as it interferes with insulin receptor sites. So much so that if one is taking insulin and switch from a high-fat to low-fat diet, they should constantly monitor their blood sugar levels, preferably under medical supervision, because their insulin metabolism will rapidly change. The elimination of simple, processed carbs from one’s diet, combined with a low-fat diet, can actually cure Type II diabetics in many cases.

 

[ishii]

Research tends to focus on single-cause/single-effect, which is why they completely miss the big picture, and people keep getting fatter and unhealthier. Common sense dictates that eating what is found in a natural environment will create the best health. That’s why the Chinese and other Asian countries are eating high-carb diets are thin, and Americans eat high-fat diets are fat. And is should be noted it’s not due to genes; Asians eating American diets are just as fat as Americans.

I have noted that in urban areas in bigger cities (I am mainly using Seattle and Portland as a reference) the people are basically thin and fit compared to their suburban and rural counterparts. Go to an urban neighborhood and you will see lots of people jogging, walking their dogs, and otherwise being very active. Go to the suburbs or rural smaller towns and you will see houses in large subdivisions and people being sedentary. The towns have chain restaurants, fast foods and malls which everyone frequents. The people you see are generally heavier I have noticed. Now, I am sure there are other factors at work- social-economic, educational, etc. I have observed this on a number of occasions. I think it underscores that need for exercise and education when it comes to nutrition. One could also argue that the urban folks are more concerned about their appearance than everyone else and have more disposable income to stay fit.

Ishii

 

[CradleJourney]

I use to believe my mom was being ridiculous when she ridiculed the various studies and ‘facts’ reported in the news. Now, with a few decades of my own life experience under my belt, I realize why she had no confidence in anything reported.

I have no problem with the actual scientists nor their findings. They are what they are. However, just like with Pope Francis’s words, what people can conclude based on these can really stretch the imagination.

This study basically conforms to what I have believed for a long time now. Anything carried to an extreme will cause problems, and while variety and moderation may not make you skinny (or an exceptional athlete, or a mathematical genius, etc), it does seem to be the best path to health and happiness for the majority of people.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I use to believe my mom was being ridiculous when she ridiculed the various studies and ‘facts’ reported in the news. Now, with a few decades of my own life experience under my belt, I realize why she had no confidence in anything reported.

I have no problem with the actual scientists nor their findings. They are what they are. However, just like with Pope Francis’s words, what people can conclude based on these can really stretch the imagination.

I concur.

Furthermore, if one wants to actually understand the conclusion, one has to read and understand the entire study. Studies have parameters, and those conclusions cannot be properly understood without those parameters.

This study basically conforms to what I have believed for a long time now. Anything carried to an extreme will cause problems, and while variety and moderation may not make you skinny (or an exceptional athlete, or a mathematical genius, etc), it does seem to be the best path to health and happiness for the majority of people.

It is true that anything carried to an extreme will cause problems. However, it is also true that anything that is not needed from one’s diet is not necessary for survival or health, as is the case with saturated fats.

 

[ProVobis]

Isn’t this bit about using butter about 30 years old? Everyone by now should know that margarines and other transfats are about many times worse. The body at least knows what to do with saturated fats. A certain amount is necessary for proper metabolism. It also needs mono-unsaturated fats too though.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Awesome. Thank you. I will report back to you on my progress later (if you want).

Ishii

I am interested in your progress, and look forward to followup posts about it. If the thread gets too old, feel free to send a private message.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Too much fat will also screw up one’s insulin response, as it interferes with insulin receptor sites. So much so that if one is taking insulin and switch from a high-fat to low-fat diet, they should constantly monitor their blood sugar levels, preferably under medical supervision, because their insulin metabolism will rapidly change. The elimination of simple, processed carbs from one’s diet, combined with a low-fat diet, can actually cure Type II diabetics in many cases.

I want you to pay attention so you will stop arguing against things I didn’t say. I DID NOT advocate a HIGH fat diet. In a nutshell I said it was no big deal to eat some saturated fats, and not struggle to eat only super lean meats. Do you understand now? After this if you compare any diet to what I advocated but call mine a “high fat” diet, you will be acting dishonestly in order to promote your own beliefs.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

TheWarriorMonk;

Take a trip to China; walk around and observe the people, and examine what they eat.

LOL. I worked with Chinese engineers for 10 years. They would come to the states and I would help set them up in appartments, teach them to drive and take them food shopping at Asian markets and local US markets. Their big staple of course is rice, but also, pork. One person alone would cook an entire loin pork roast which he would consume in one week. They also ate eggs everyday. Of course they liked green vegetables and such as well. But their diets were hardly low fat as you seem to suggest.

Also, health in China isn’t so great either. They have an equivalent rate of type II diabetes to Americans, despite being mostly low weight. They attribute this to their high consumption of white rice, which is high in carbs.

Then go to the U.S.; walk around and observe the people, and examine what they eat.

Most Americans don’t eat right, what a surprise. What do they eat? Pizza, French Fries, donuts, potato chips and Doritos and of course soda. Processed foods, even low-fat ones which are loaded with corn-syrup.

They’re not eating fresh meat and vegetables, which they should be.

The office building I worked at, there was a railroad freight yard with tanker cars, and I use to see large tanker trucks going in an out all the time. I thought they were picking up milk or some other type of product like that. I took a walk down with another engineer and he spoke with the yard forman. All the tanker cars and the trucks were delivering Corn Syrup throughout the Massachusetts, especially the Boston area. I was shocked. Most of it went to soda companies like Coca-Cola, but also to other companies which produce pastries and other snack foods that we see in supermarkets.

I find it amazing that fat does not make one fat, but the country that eats a much higher fat content is the one that has the much, much fatter people. And the one eating the high complex carbohydrate, low protein, low fat diet aren’t.

Again, it’s not the consumption of fat which is making Americans fat, but carbohydrates, especially in the forms of corn-syrup.

Nope. 1 gram of fat = 9 calories, which is more than double the caloric content of carbs.

But you can not eat the amount of fat to put you over your calorie requirements. You’d hate eating that much fat to begin with, just because of texture.

However, you can easily go over that in eating a pizza, and the high amount of carbohydrates come from the bread.

Read how the human body processes fat, carbs and proteins, and you’ll learn why American consumption of simple carbs is the cause of the obesity epidemic.
That an lack of exercise.

You’re ignoring the research for some reason. You’re also ignoring how humans ate before the industrial revolution which created the quick foods that humans could eat and continue working at their jobs.

Jim

 

[tomarin]

Some of the longest living people are the Japanese - who eat far less red meat that Americans and eat much more fish that is high in Omega 3. Also eat more vegetables. However, high blood pressure is a problem due to the high sodium in Soy based foods.

Ishii

Also, smaller portions.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Thank you for your interest. You may be surprised by the answer. First of all sugar is a carbohydrate. You are right to get rid of it, but things like white bread and potatoes turn into blood sugar very quickly in the body, so they are essentially the same as sugar. Too much blood sugar is harmful so an insulin response is triggered to store the excess carbs as body fat. If you have excess body fat, why put more carbs in your body each day? Why not burn the stored energy that you have which is body fat? That’s why it got stored; so you could use it later.

Now that being said, I do not advocate zero carb, though if you are healthy and wanted to win the contest you could do that to lose weight quicker. I suggest you get a small amount of carbs per day from 2 servings of root vegetables, and a piece of fruit. You must take in less carbs than your energy needs per day or your body will have no incentive to burn fat. There are 3500 calories in 1 lb of body fat. These are the calories you will use once the blood sugar swings stop. You need protein and nutrients, but you don’t need hardly any carbs until the weight comes off. You decide when to stop.

This is the diet I am following:

Limit 20 carbs per day. Carbs to be derived from fresh vegetables, usually lettuce, kale, broccoli and the likes.

No bread, no fruit, no milk, no yogurt. No potatoes.

So far I have lost 6 lbs.

My previous diet consisted of Greek yogurt for snack,

whole grain pita with salad and chicken for lunch. Diet salad dressing. Fruit like apple, grapes, pears, or oranges.

old-fashioned oatmeal with bran and made with milk for breakfast.

Dinner (small)- some chicken or leftovers from Sunday meal, like potatoes, veggies, another 1/2 whole grain pita. 1/2 baked sweet potato.

I will report back too. That low fat diet was not working!

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

LOL. I worked with Chinese engineers for 10 years. They would come to the states and I would help set them up in appartments, teach them to drive and take them food shopping at Asian markets and local US markets.

You meant to say that you worked with Chinese people living in American influenced diets. That has nothing to do with with what I am referring to.

Their big staple of course is rice, but also, pork. One person alone would cook an entire loin pork roast which he would consume in one week. They also ate eggs everyday. Of course they liked green vegetables and such as well. But their diets were hardly low fat as you seem to suggest.

As I’m sure you know, Chinese people in China do not eat this way, barring the relatively wealthy in certain cities that have western influence. That type of meal is way too expensive for the average person.

When I was in the Provinces with little western influence, there was something very noticeable: There was not a single fat person…none (barring our guide, who can eat at restaurant buffets most of the year). Considering the dense populations of these cities, that is stunning. Now, in some western influenced cities, such as Beijing and Guangzhou, overweight people are seen, but nothing in the numbers you see here in the U.S.

Also, health in China isn’t so great either. They have an equivalent rate of type II diabetes to Americans, despite being mostly low weight. They attribute this to their high consumption of white rice, which is high in carbs.

Your western bias is creeping in here. First, rice is not ubiquitous throughout China. That’s simply due to climate. Second, another very obvious thing was that you don’t get a pile of white rice with your meal over there. If you want white rice, you have to ask for it.

Again, it’s not the consumption of fat which is making Americans fat, but carbohydrates, especially in the forms of corn-syrup.

Once again, carbohydrates are not the problem. Processed carbohydrates are the problem. A processed carbohydrate is not a food found in nature. And it’s not limited to carbohydrates either. Processed proteins and fats (especially) also cause various types of problems.

Read how the human body processes fat, carbs and proteins, and you’ll learn why American consumption of simple carbs is the cause of the obesity epidemic.

I’m very, very well read on the matter. I seriously considered going into the health field at one point.

You’re ignoring the research for some reason. You’re also ignoring how humans ate before the industrial revolution which created the quick foods that humans could eat and continue working at their jobs.

I am aware of how humans ate before the industrial revolution (Neolithic Age forward). It was a high-carb diet. However, those carbs were unprocessed, complex carbohydrates such as grains, vegetables, etc…nothing like you see in western diets today.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

This is the diet I am following:

Limit 20 carbs per day. Carbs to be derived from fresh vegetables, usually lettuce, kale, broccoli and the likes.

No bread, no fruit, no milk, no yogurt. No potatoes.

So far I have lost 6 lbs.

The most weight I ever lost was 28 pounds in a 3-month time frame, and that was on a low-protein, low-fat, high-carb diet (unprocessed carbs; i.e., no sugar, white rice, white flour, etc.). During that time, I made no change in the how I exercised.

High-protein diets will cause one to lose weight faster, though it is less healthy. I have some real life examples of that to. When my cousin was body building, he go on a high-protein diet for weight loss, and have weekly blood work done. The diet made him look great, but was adversely effecting his liver and kidneys.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

TheWarriorMonk;

You meant to say that you worked with Chinese people living in American influenced diets. That has nothing to do with with what I am referring to.

No, I didn’t say that nor mean what YOU said.

The Chinese Engineers who came over, had never been in the US or outside of China for that matter, before. They came to work from the company suite, where they lived after my manager had picked them up at the airport the day before. Two could barely speak English. I took them shopping at the Asian market and they prepared their own meals at the apartment they lived in. They lived by themselves BTW.

In other words, they followed a traditional Chinese diet, not an American one, which they had little clue about before hand. As I said, pork was a big part of what they cooked from themselves and they did include chicken, but pork was used more.

As I’m sure you know, Chinese people in China do not eat this way, barring the relatively wealthy in certain cities that have western influence. That type of meal is way too expensive for the average person.

Actually they do, as the Chinese I’ve worked with told me and showed me.

Also, when we took them out to eat at a “Traditional” Chinese Restaurant, not American Chinese, they ate plenty of chicken, pork and especially duck.

When I was in the Provinces with little western influence, there was something very noticeable: There was not a single fat person…none (barring our guide, who can eat at restaurant buffets most of the year). Considering the dense populations of these cities, that is stunning. Now, in some western influenced cities, such as Beijing and Guangzhou, overweight people are seen, but nothing in the numbers you see here in the U.S.

The Chinese in general do not put on a lot of weight, unless they begin to eat American food which includes lots of sugar and simpe carbs. However, in China, despite not being overweight as Americans are, they’re rate of type II diabetes matches the US and it’s attributed to the large amounts of white rice they eat.

Your western bias is creeping in here. First, rice is not ubiquitous throughout China. That’s simply due to climate. Second, another very obvious thing was that you don’t get a pile of white rice with your meal over there. If you want white rice, you have to ask for it.

It’s not a Western Bias as you’re accusing me of, but my experience with Chinese people from China.

OH and BTW, my managers traveled often to China and know their diets.

Once again, carbohydrates are not the problem. Processed carbohydrates are the problem. A processed carbohydrate is not a food found in nature. And it’s not limited to carbohydrates either. Processed proteins and fats (especially) also cause various types of problem

Exactly what myself and Deus tecum have been posting all along.

You on the other hand have been blaming fat for obesity in Americans and as the latest research which we have posted shows, to go along with the OP, it’s not fat causing them to become obese.

I’m very, very well read on the matter. I seriously considered going into the health field at one point.

I’m very well read and very experienced on the matter.

Try reading what we’ve posted. We’ve been talking about processed simple carbs and foods high in sugar such as potatoes and corn, as the main cause for obesity in America. That and lack of physical activity.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

This is the diet I am following:

Limit 20 carbs per day. Carbs to be derived from fresh vegetables, usually lettuce, kale, broccoli and the likes.

No bread, no fruit, no milk, no yogurt. No potatoes.

So far I have lost 6 lbs.

My previous diet consisted of Greek yogurt for snack,

whole grain pita with salad and chicken for lunch. Diet salad dressing. Fruit like apple, grapes, pears, or oranges.

old-fashioned oatmeal with bran and made with milk for breakfast.

Dinner (small)- some chicken or leftovers from Sunday meal, like potatoes, veggies, another 1/2 whole grain pita. 1/2 baked sweet potato.

I will report back too. That low fat diet was not working!

At some point you’re going to want to start adding back good carbs into your diet. But do it slowly, like 5gs per week.

As long as you continue to lose weight, if you haven’t reached your goal weight yet, keep adding the 5 gs until you stop losing weight.

This is what Dr Atkins called the threshold point. So, as long as you stay at or below that threshold, depending on your activity, you won’t gain weight back.

For myself, it was 45 - 50 gs of carbs per day.

Myself, I use Fitday, to keep track of my food intake.

Jim

 

[qui_est_ce]

At some point you’re going to want to start adding back good carbs into your diet. But do it slowly, like 5gs per week.

As long as you continue to lose weight, if you haven’t reached your goal weight yet, keep adding the 5 gs until you stop losing weight.

This is what Dr Atkins called the threshold point. So, as long as you stay at or below that threshold, depending on your activity, you won’t gain weight back.

For myself, it was 45 - 50 gs of carbs per day.

Myself, I use Fitday, to keep track of my food intake.

Jim

Thanks for the link. I will add back more carbs next week after being on the diet for 2 weeks. I need to lose weight. Although I’m not that overweight, I think the extra pounds the source of my high BP. I am following Atkins.

Eating low fat (read just about 0 fat in my diet besides what is in chicken) and high complex carbohydrates did not lower my weight, my LDL, or my BP.

Might as well try something new. So far, at least I am losing weight and am not starving.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Thanks for the link. I will add back more carbs next week after being on the diet for 2 weeks. I need to lose weight. Although I’m not that overweight, I think the extra pounds the source of my high BP. I am following Atkins.

Eating low fat (read just about 0 fat in my diet besides what is in chicken) and high complex carbohydrates did not lower my weight, my LDL, or my BP.

Might as well try something new. So far, at least I am losing weight and am not starving.

This is probably the best site on the internet for low-carb dieting.

They cover all the diets and provide up to date research as well as discussions to help people along with learning about nutrition.

Jim

 

[Deus_tecum]

WarriorMonk: Who here said anyone should eat “processed proteins, and processed fat”. Who?? Nobody, I bet. Do you consider pork loin or beef steak to be “processed”? If not please stop arguing against stuff that nobody said.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

The Chinese Engineers who came over, had never been in the US or outside of China for that matter, before. They came to work from the company suite, where they lived after my manager had picked them up at the airport the day before. Two could barely speak English. I took them shopping at the Asian market and they prepared their own meals at the apartment they lived in. They lived by themselves BTW.

There’s no point in arguing this. I have firsthand experience dealing with Chinese people outside of westernized areas of China. I know what I saw (hundreds of thousands of people in various cities), I know what they eat, and I know what they have told me firsthand.

A pork loin is a luxury, and we never had such a thing at a meal. Yes, there will be some meat in meals, usually chopped up and used a condiment. This first time I saw a pile of meat on a plate was in Guangzhou, in a restaurant catering to the wealthier locals and foreigners.

Also, when we took them out to eat at a “Traditional” Chinese Restaurant, not American Chinese, they ate plenty of chicken, pork and especially duck.

I live in a major metro area with plenty of Chinese, and have yet to come across a restaurant that resembles anything like what I ate over there. 99.99% of the restaurants have cuisine from specific areas of China, such as Guangzhou (Canton). I have yet to see anything anywhere in the United States that remotely resembles the true cuisine of such Provinces as Jiangxi, Hunan, and Szechuan. True Hunan cuisine is simply stunning.

The Chinese in general do not put on a lot of weight, unless they begin to eat American food which includes lots of sugar and simpe carbs. However, in China, despite not being overweight as Americans are, they’re rate of type II diabetes matches the US and it’s attributed to the large amounts of white rice they eat.

You do realize rice is not popular in all areas of China. Correct? That statement indicates that the people you met are probably from the southern, Cantonese-speaking, westernized areas of China.

It’s not a Western Bias as you’re accusing me of, but my experience with Chinese people from China.

An incredibly small sample, combined with no personal experience.

You on the other hand have been blaming fat for obesity in Americans and as the latest research which we have posted shows, to go along with the OP, it’s not fat causing them to become obese.

If you look hard enough, you will find research that supports anything you want. I will read studies, but that is not enough. I have to see it in practice. Talking about Chinese, Shaolin Monks eat very high carb, low-fat, vegetarian diets…and their not in bad shape.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Do you consider pork loin or beef steak to be “processed”? If not please stop arguing against stuff that nobody said.

In the U.S., the meat that you buy in a store is almost certainly processed, in that it will be high fat, have residual chemicals, etc. Even the “low-fat” cuts are not really low fat; they play that “grams” game this way they can hide the caloric content. You will find nothing in a grocery store that resembles wild game (excepting specialty shops…and it won’t be cheap). Not only that, in many areas one can’t buy wild game at all. I personally do not eat red meat at all.