Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi missing

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midori said:
the Muslim Brotherhood-- of which Kashoggi was a prominent and vocal proponent–
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If that’s so, and I have no reason to doubt it, why in the world would he have gone into the Saudi embassy? Seems to me that’s the very last place he would go.
 
My understanding was that it was to get some documents for his upcoming nuptials. That whomever killed him knew that he was getting married very much suggests someone in the Saudi intelligence community had been monitoring his activities and knew he’d be going to the Saudi embassy. That makes the claim of a rogue operation seem somewhat harder to believe.

Things are getting interesting. The President has talked directly to the Saudi king, and he has disclaimed any knowledge, so I wonder if the US, Turkey and the King are preparing for a narrative that puts it all on the Crown Prince’s head.
 
There is nothing to prevent a person with an American green card from getting married in America. I don’t think you even need a green card. And why would he go alone into the lair of his supposed enemies?

There’s more to this, but I don’t know if we’ll ever find out.
 
His fiance waited outside, so he was not exactly alone at that. I read somewhere, he, Jamal Khashoggi actually had experience working in embassies, knew how they functioned. Anyway, we will see.

Across the board, most people think he was murdered. There might be a slight chance, he is still alive.
 
Considering the nightmare the Saudi government is in the middle of right now (I mean, seriously, threatening the one country on the planet that basically guarantees your regime is still standing in a decade), if Khashoggi was still alive, they would have produced him by now.
 
Yes, “they” would have, if “they” had him.

This surely didn’t happen, 2% of a chance it did. But I would not forget that a Ukrainian journalist just months ago, faked his own execution with help from the Ukraine Government to fake out everyone, mainly aimed at the Russians. Enemy of Putin.

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It’s been done before, chances of it done here are very remote but one never knows!
 
Ridgerunner said:
If that’s so, and I have no reason to doubt it, why in the world would he have gone into the Saudi embassy? Seems to me that’s the very last place he would go.
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Why does anyone go to a consulate? Because they need papers to do something they can’t do without those papers. 🙂 The way I’d heard the papers in question described was that they confirmed he had legally divorced his ex-wife, to clear the way to marry his current fiancée.
Friday, Sept. 28 - Khashoggi makes an initial visit to the consulate

Mr. Khashoggi, a Saudi citizen, had been living in self-imposed exile in the United States since last year. He visited the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul to collect a document that would allow him to marry his Turkish fiancée, but was told he would have to return.

He left Istanbul that afternoon and flew to London for a conference.

At some point after that visit, most likely over the weekend, Mr. Khashoggi called the consulate saying he could return to pick up the document the next Tuesday. Someone from the consulate later called him back and asked him to come in at 1:30 p.m. the day of the appointment, his fiancée, Hatice Cengiz, said.
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(skipping lots of stuff)
Tuesday, Oct. 2 - Khashoggi disappears

At 1:14 p.m. , Mr. Khashoggi entered the consulate. He gave his two cellphones to Ms. Cengiz and told her to get help if he did not reappear.
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(skipping more stuff)
 

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So, for whatever it’s worth.

Haaretz is reporting this as well. Well, I think this is a cover story. Really horrid story.
 
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I think the White House and the Saudi government are getting ready to throw the Crown Prince under the proverbial bus. I doubt they’ll tie the murder directly to him, but in effect, as he’s running the Saudi government these days, and this report is coming out after Trump talked to King Salman himself, somebody of sufficiently high rank is going to have to take the fall to appease both Congress and the Turkish government.
 
Regardless, we continue to associate ourselves with nations like Turkey and the Saudis. Our line in the sand will be a weak one, if indeed we even draw one. It will be blown away by the first gust of wind. if these charges are proven, I suspect our actions will be more for show than actual retribution. Sadly, we are too tangled with the Saudis in oil, sale of military weapons, getting the upper hand on Iran, etc.
 
Here’s some “breaking news” I just saw at the Washington Post:

President Trump says Saudi’s crown prince “totally denied any knowledge” of what happened at the consulate in Turkey

I guess that settles it. If he “totally denied any knowledge” we know he didn’t have anything to do with Khashoggi’s death and is completely innocent. But if it had been a kind of lukewarm denial, there would be more doubt.

:roll_eyes:
 
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Sad shame about all of this. I even heard Kashoggi had worked in an embassy or consul.

Also, a number of stories are coming out. I heard one expert say we should stand back at some of the stories and not just automatically accept they are true. A lot of different agendas can be in play.
 
AlNg said:
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Victoria33:
Sad shame about all of this
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At least the Saudis should show a little civility and
give the body to his fiancee.
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From what I have read, I am not sure that is possible.
 
It’s interesting that it implies it’s not the first time they’ve pulled this; I’m curious as to what’s made this particular case so visible in the media. 😦
Tubaigy began to cut Khashoggi’s body up on a table in the study while he was still alive, the Turkish source said.

The killing took seven minutes, the source said.

As he started to dismember the body, Tubaigy put on earphones and listened to music. He advised other members of the squad to do the same.

“When I do this job, I listen to music. You should do [that] too,” Tubaigy was recorded as saying, the source told MEE.
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I noted that too. That is a chilling read. These intelligence officers may take the fall for the Prince.

I’m glad some Senators are speaking up about this, Rubio, Menendez, Graham and others.

Though, I do admit, things are not proven absolutely but I think it looks like it was something from the highest reaches of the government.
 
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Even if the Prince survives this, the damage to Saudi prestige is enormous. There isn’t a Saudi consulate or embassy on the planet that will not be under the kind of vigilance not seen since the Soviet era. Anyone every nation thinks may be in the employ of Saudi security services, if they’re let into that country at all, will have little or no freedom of movement without spooks on their tail. Ordinary Saudi citizens coming to countries to see family or do business deals will be automatically suspect. Sure, some sort of confession of rogue agents may save face, but you don’t think Congress is going to look at future aspects of the transactional relationship as being suspect. Internally, the crown prince has made a lot of enemies, so the political risks to the House of Saud are greater now.

The crown prince reminds me of the Shah, modernist zeal coupled with ruthlessness, and the latter ultimately undermining the former.
 
I think the strangest thing about this is how does a member of the Muslim Brotherhood and a supporter of it’s anti-Western and anti-modernity view got a job reporting for the Washington Post? The guy was basically “The Handmaiden’s Tale” in a keffiyeh.
 
From an earlier article—
It was Yasin Aktay — a former MP for Turkey’s ruling Justice and Development party (AKP) — whom Khashoggi told his fiancée to call if he did not emerge from the consulate. The AKP is, in effect, the Turkish branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. His most trusted friend, then, was an adviser to President Erdogan, who is fast becoming known as the most vicious persecutor of journalists on earth. Khashoggi never meaningfully criticised Erdogan. So we ought not to see this as the assassination of a liberal reformer.

Khashoggi had this undeserved status in the West because of the publicity surrounding his sacking as editor of the Saudi daily Al Watan back in 2003. (I broke the news of his removal for Reuters. I’d worked alongside Khashoggi at the Saudi daily Arab News during the preceding years.) He was dismissed because he allowed a columnist to criticise an Islamist thinker considered to be the founding father of Wahhabism. Thus, overnight, Khashoggi became known as a liberal progressive.
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