SC monks to end egg farm after PETA criticism

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I agree with the article below, and assume that the quotes are correct.
The quote you cited in your post first appeared in the 2002 book God and the World: Believing and Living in Our Time, on pp 78-79. The book is a record of an in-depth interview of Joseph Ratzinger by Peter Seewald, and was published by Ignatius Press. If anyone wants to read the quote in context, they can access those pages via Google Books.
 
“…or hens live so packed together that they become just caricatures of birds.”

I wouldn’t trust PETA as a source at all. If they’ll lie about “cutting off beaks”, which they did, then they’ll lie about anything. If someone comes up with a reliable source for this, then it would be worth talking about.
Well, I find myself defending PETA, when all I wanted to do was introduce a quote by the Holy Father into the discussion. First, PETA was wrongly accused of fabricating the quote. Now, PETA is accused of lying based on a brief article written by an AP reporter, with no direct quotes.

Is this how we go about searching for truth? Thank goodness, that one poster got completely deleted by the mods. It took me twenty seconds on a search engine to confirm the Pope’s quote, and find this article with quotes from a PETA representative.

“Debeaking, said Friedrich, is an industry term, and it does not involve chopping the entire beak off. It involves chopping the ends of their beaks off, which is why the debeaking may not be apparent in the photographs taken by the PETA source at Mepkin. According to poultry experts, he said, the pain is acute and chronic, lasting for more than a month.”

Now, it seems that the disagreement is only about whether there is pain involved.
Being that this is such a hot issue, and that I am a seeker of truth, I will search and weigh the best evidence from both sides, and do some of my own independent research before calling one side a liar, or forming a strong opinion of my own.

ncrcafe.org/node/933
 
Defend PETA all you want Steeler, but the AP quote purported to have been from a PETA member involved in the harassment of the monks:

“The group also said the abbey’s suppliers cut off the hens’ beaks …”

Which they absolutely didn’t do.

Your PETA quote does not mean the AP inaccurately represented what the PETA people said in justifying their actions against the monks. Can you prove PETA didn’t say that in the course of getting the monks shut down? Or was your quote said by another PETA spokesman in defending the prior misrepresentation after they were caught in the first misrepresentation?

And who accused PETA of fabricating the quote from the Pope? I expressed my unwillingness to take PETA’s word for it, or anything else. Another quote from another source was produced, and that was fine. You evidently think PETA is trustworthy in the things they claim. I am skeptical. Am I somehow morally bound to accept what they say? You can accept what they say, just because they say it, if you want. I don’t have to.

While you’re proving PETA’s cause for them, I would like very much to see the basis for the claim that debeaking is a painful thing. People who actually have done it claim otherwise.
 
animalscam.com/news.cfm?id=3501
Egg producers warn that applying animal rights logic to real-world grocery shopping would literally double the retail cost of eggs in California. In Canada, according to Toronto’s Globe and Mail, “cage-free” eggs already cost 80 percent more than the regular kind. Consumers who want to pay extra for a warm-and-fuzzy feeling – and can afford it – are welcome to do so. But should Californians force everyone to go that route?
And, more to the point, if you’re an animal rights activist, is it really better for the chickens? Here are four reasons why wing-flappers in California might want to re-think having HSUS and Farm Sanctuary in their corner:
  • Bird flu – Free-range chickens, turkeys, and egg-laying hens kept outdoors are more susceptible to bird flu, as the British are regrettably learning again and again.
  • Death rate – Dr. Joy Mensch, a leading Animal Science professor at UC Davis, told the Sacramento Bee on Sunday that cage-free hens die at more than twice the rate of caged hens, likely the result of increased exposure to one another (and to their own manure).
  • Broken bones – Dr. Mensch adds that cage-free hens, left to jump around the barn, suffer high rates of broken bones, as high as 67 percent in one study.
  • Stress – This year scientists at Sydney University in Australia found that free-range chickens experience just as much stress as caged birds, since they have to deal with extra pressures such as extreme temperatures, parasites, and predators.
 
Perhaps the monks could make a distinctive liqueur like Benedictine or Trappist beer since they are looking for something to support the monastery and that would sell well. It is already something of a tradition for monasteries.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trappist_beer
 
Melensdad:

The information you quoted is interesting, because it’s different in the U.S. Conditions in poultry farm facilities are more open than you describe, though they are indoors. Outdoors, there are a zillion diseases carried by wild birds, and not just bird flu.

My understanding is that it’s tough to raise them at all in Canada on a commercial basis because of the extreme cold. In the U.S., most are produced in a climatic zone that’s moderate; principally in the Upper South/Border State zone. Keeping optimum temperatures, combined with optimum air circulation is an expensive proposition, so the least costly environment is the one that requires the least year-round modification. Corn is the most important feed ingredient, but corn is expensive to transport, relatively speaking. In other words, it’s cheaper to transport meat than it is to transport corn, considering the value of each. So, near access to corn is a big deal. Again, the Upper South/Border State strip is the most efficient area when you consider its relative nearness to corn supplies and overall transportation access to population centers for finished product. Access to fairly low-cost land and plentiful supplies of good well water favors karst-type uplands. Production facilities for final product demands a lot of energy, very good sewage treatment facilities and ready access to secondary product (pet food) markets. Finally, the two best kinds of bedding are wood shavings and rice hulls. Transportation distance really matters for both because of their low economic value. So an area where there is a strong wood-products industry is best for the first. Water transportation is most efficient for the second. If you look for the places where both are pretty good, you again end up in the Upper South/Border State strip.

That’s not to say there aren’t good areas elsewhere in the U.S.; central California for example. But they’re fairly small.

Fascinating stuff to me. Of all the industries in the U.S., poultry production is one of the least likely to move to, e.g., China. In fact, China is one of the biggest importers of American poultry products, and growing rapidly. If you don’t have the right conditions for an integrated system, it’s very tough to do well.

But getting back on topic, or at least close, because they are so common in the area where I live, I have been in integrator facilities of all sorts, and in my mind, they’re a lot more humane (not to mention far cleaner) than people seem to think they are. The overwhelming majority are owned and operated by small family farmers, who raise the chickens for the big integrators. As with all things, one can fail at it, but most make a very good living doing it, and build moderate wealth they could never build otherwise as farmers. So there is a substantial social benefit in it.

What enrironments do chickens like best, if that’s the question? To the best of my knowledge chickens are silent on the subject, so the only source of knowledge we have is the evident stress, or lack thereof, as manifested by their optimum productivity and survival rate. Indisputably, the best results for both are in the integrator farms; the very places animal rights advocates love to hate.
 
Steelers Rule:
Frankly, I’m more disturbed by attitudes like these among professed Christians
I love having my Christianity called into question over my first cup of coffee in the morning. It makes me all warm and fuzzy.

Another satisfied customer! Maybe I should change my sig block to “Disturbing CAF posters since 2005” 😃

Have a Coke and a Smile, mate. I love them Steelers too. 😉
 
PETA is a extremist group, who if they had there way, would throw the US into a famine.

They can not be trusted, because they fabricate and mislead people with their advertisements.

Years ago here in Massachusetts, there was a ballot question, which was sponsored by PETA, to outlaw, leg-hold traps. In their campaign, they ran television ads, showing animals caught in steel leg-hold traps. The problem is, these traps were outlawed over 30 years before in most of the United States. The video PETA used in their ad, was an old film clip from Russia.

Jim
 
They can not be trusted, because they fabricate and mislead people with their advertisements.
Years ago here in Massachusetts, there was a ballot question, which was sponsored by PETA, to outlaw, leg-hold traps. In their campaign, they ran television ads, showing animals caught in steel leg-hold traps. The problem is, these traps were outlawed over 30 years before in most of the United States. The video PETA used in their ad, was an old film clip from Russia.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with eating meat, so PETA goes way overboard. That doesn’t mean that I completely dismiss their message or call them liars.

It seems to me that a leg-hold trap in Russia is the same as a leg-hold trap in the US. Maybe, the ad should have been labeled, but if I’m holding a picture of a aborted baby from Europe at a protest in the US, would it be intellectually honest for an abortionist to completely dismiss the pictures and call people liars? I’m not sure how long time bans in 30 other states, weakens measures to get a ban in Massachusetts.?

http://www.abortionno.org/World/images/brazil_06.jpg

“Animals too, are God’s creatures and even if they do not have the same direct relationship to God that man has, they are still creatures of His will, creatures we must respect as companions in creation.” Cardinal Ratzinger
 
Steelers Rule
It seems to me that a leg-hold trap in Russia is the same as a leg-hold trap in the US.
No, they are not. This was a lie the ad perpetrated. The steel-jaw leg hold traps shown in the ad, have not been used in the United States for 30 years.

If a group uses lies to promote their agenda, its still lying regardless of how noble they perceive their goal to be.

Jim
 
Steelers Rule

No, they are not. This was a lie the ad perpetrated. The steel-jaw leg hold traps shown in the ad, have not been used in the United States for 30 years.

If a group uses lies to promote their agenda, its still lying regardless of how noble they perceive their goal to be.

Jim
Jim I rescued a sweet coonhound that had her back leg in a hold trap. She lost the foot and about four inches of the lower leg chewing her way out of the trap. These traps a not legal but still used in some rural areas. I am glad to say that the dog has a mechanical foot and was adopted by a Dr and his nurse wife. I named the dog Blessing and you can read about her here:

petfinder.com/shelters/PA179.html

Yet as far as I am concerned PETA does more harm ot all the worlds animals then traps could ever do.:mad:
 
PETA–this group is just strange to me. They protect endangered species, fine. Nothing wrong with that. But they also protest against farm animals, pets, etc.? As someone posted in another thread, they’re not after the welfare of animals, but rather are against any form of co-existence between humans and animals.
 
PETA–this group is just strange to me. They protect endangered species, fine.
I’m actually not even convinced they do that! My observation of this group, and I’ve done quite a bit of reading about them, is not that they actually do anything to ‘protect’ endangered species, but rather that they do everything to prevent man from having any dominion over animals in any way. That said, they have prevented man from ‘managing’ one species with the intent to ‘protect’ another species. Consequently it is easy to argue that they do not ‘protect’ endangered species at all. What they attempt to do is remove man from contact with all animals and therefore attempt to set up a situation where animals live in a ‘survival of the fittest’ contest.
 
I don’t mean to deter the thread, but I just saw an interesting documentary on PETA called “I Am An Animal”…that organisation is being run by one loopy woman. At one point she says that if she knew any members of the Animal Liberation Front, and she wasn’t saying if she did or not, she would keep their identities hidden because of the noble cause they are fighting for. Not familiar with the ALF? Well, members have been jailed for attacking people with pick-axes and planting a bomb outside of someone’s house.

I actually became a vegetarian for lent last year and haven’t had meat since, but I will never consider supporting PETA, not while they vandalise private property (e.g. their fake-blood protests inside high-end boutiques), and certainly not while they refuse to condemn terrorist groups like the ALF. Vegetarianism should be about personal sacrifice, not some depraved notion of animal rights.
 
I don’t mean to deter the thread, but I just saw an interesting documentary on PETA called “I Am An Animal”…that organisation is being run by one loopy woman. At one point she says that if she knew any members of the Animal Liberation Front, and she wasn’t saying if she did or not, she would keep their identities hidden because of the noble cause they are fighting for. Not familiar with the ALF? Well, members have been jailed for attacking people with pick-axes and planting a bomb outside of someone’s house.

I actually became a vegetarian for lent last year and haven’t had meat since, but I will never consider supporting PETA, not while they vandalise private property (e.g. their fake-blood protests inside high-end boutiques), and certainly not while they refuse to condemn terrorist groups like the ALF. Vegetarianism should be about personal sacrifice, not some depraved notion of animal rights.
You all might enjoy this…

theonion.com/content/node/28724

for those who don’t know, the Onion is a parody news source- all the articles are fake.
 
I actually became a vegetarian for lent last year and haven’t had meat since, but I will never consider supporting PETA, not while they vandalise private property . . . Vegetarianism should be about personal sacrifice, not some depraved notion of animal rights.
My sister is a vegetarian for health reasons, which is another legitimate reason to consider that type of diet. But I do agree with you that we can’t legitimately support radical organizations like PETA or the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS). PETA is known for being pretty radical. HSUS is commonly known as a moderate organization but is really very similar to PETA in what it advocates and the laws it supports. In any case, it is a terrible shame that these monks were deprived of their source of income under unjust pressure.
 
Thanks for posting the updates, kaygee. We seldom get news of it up here. Being a city boy, I don’t have a clue what they should do to support themselves. The eggs appeared to be a good fit for them and it’s a shame those idiots had to ruin it for them.
 
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