Scans see 'gay brain differences'

[gwendes]

Regardless of who is correct, there is only one Truth. As Catholics, we speak of what we know (i.e. believe with strong faith) to be the Truth. As an atheist (or agnostic), you state what you believe (guess) to be the Truth. We can not both be correct.

You’ve chosen to use some interesting words there.

Catholics ‘know’ and believe with ‘strong faith’ and an atheist mearly guesses! I simply live my life applying equal logic to all situations. I’m not unkind to people, I enjoy my life and do the best I can to improve it and the lives of those around me - these are all things that a good religious person would agree with and a bad religious person would say and then not act on.

I’m not placing a bet on whether or not there is a god I just don’t believe things just because I’ve been told they are true - there are infinate things I don’t believe in by exactly the same logic just like there are infinate ideas that you don’t believe in, ancient gods are often used as an example.

To be honest I would be normally quite happy to live and let live, you think there’s a god, I don’t - big deal! Let’s enjoy life! I just get a little angry when some people base a prejudice against a group of people because of what a book says - it’s this sort of unthinking that leads to unforgivable behaviour. I feel this way about all injustice - racism, sexism, homophobia - it’s exactly against behaviour that will see society improving. If you want to accept what you are told is true you will just be behaving as somebody else would have you behave - the bible was written by men and they were racist, sexist and homophobic - wouldn’t you rather attribute these behaviours to men living 2000 years ago rather than your deity?

jman507:

Therefore, you are subject to divine judgment from God, regardless of whether you personally believe in Him or not…if He exists.

No, I’ll only be subjected to divine judgement by your particular god IF your particular god a) exists and b) is and feels in the way that some Catholics believe.

 

[estesbob]

It’s a sin not to believe? Wow. What if you were born somewhere that hasn’t been exposed to Catholicism?

As I understood you were safe if you lead a good life… doesn’t seem very fair!

Exactly. I certainly believe that you can do bad things and that to do bad things is wrong but the idea of divine judgement, although appealing in some respects, isn’t something that I believe in. Unfortunately good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people - I see no reason to invoke an all powerful overlord.

If there is a god I’m sure he’d understand my reasoning

You have created a god in your own image and likeness and by an amazing co-incidence your god approves of everything you do. A god that follows you to homosexual bars and whispers in your ear that theres nothing wrong with having a little “fun” with the boys. You enjoy god so much you decided to come to a Catholic forum and tell us how much better your god than our God. Of course one the has to wonder did you come here to convince us of the the legitimacy of your god or to convince yourslef? Or perhaps you dedcided to come here and mock our God so you would have some cute stories to tell in the bars you haunt about the bigots you ran into on line. Narrow minded people who are stupid enough to woirship a Gd that actually requires something of them other than having a good time.

 

[gwendes]

You have created a god in your own image and likeness and by an amazing co-incidence your god approves of everything you do. A god that follows you to homosexual bars and whispers in your ear that theres nothing wrong with having a little “fun” with the boys. You enjoy god so much you decided to come to a Catholic forum and tell us how much better your god than our God. Of course one the has to wonder did you come here to convince us of the the legitimacy of your god or to convince yourslef? Or perhaps you dedcided to come here and mock our God so you would have some cute stories to tell in the bars you haunt about the bigots you ran into on line. Narrow minded people who are stupid enough to woirship a Gd that actually requires something of them other than having a good time.

You’ve misunderstood again.

You seem to define god as your inner voice.

I don’t have a god. As far as I accept the world nothing follows me anywhere, nothing whispers in my ear. There are two popular gay bars in the town where I live and I go to them with gay friends and straight friends. You’ve made the assumption, even though I did say earlier that I predominantly end up chatting with women, that these are male bars.

I’m not claiming that my inner voice is better than mine only that, in very simple terms, mine does not have a book that would justify me being offensive to people!

I’d describe myself as far from narrow-minded - one of the reasons I’m responding to your post is that I find it interesting what other people think, you’re not going to agree with everyone!

You seem angry, would that be accurate?

 

[Father_of_9]

For those of you who don’t know or care about what the Catholic Church teaches, there is plenty of medical evidence that shows the harmful effects of homosexual activity. You can choose to ignore it if you want, but nature has a way of winning in the end. The bottom line is that homosexual behavior is abusive. You can’t use certain body parts for activities that they’re not designed for without serious repercussions. If you really care about someone else, you wouldn’t hurt them physically or emotionally in order to satisfy your own desires.

 

[system]

The bottom line is that homosexual behavior is abusive. You can’t use certain body parts for activities that they’re not designed for without serious repercussions.

Was that pun intentional? I hope so.

Incidentally, who dictates what each part of the body is ‘designed’ for? I’ve always thought this was an interesting interpretation. The bible doesn’t give us an exhaustive list of what we can and can’t do with each thing. OK, so anal sex between guys is out, as is sex for reasons other than reproduction.

But how about a soapy tt wank? If the participants did it because they were stupid enough to believe it would lead to babies (because they had no sex education). Oooh, or how about if my loving husband put it in my ase for a little bit, but made sure that he spaffed in my vag? Would that be acceptable?

You’ve got to consider all the options. Jesus certainly did.

 

[gwendes]

For those of you who don’t know or care about what the Catholic Church teaches, there is plenty of medical evidence that shows the harmful effects of homosexual activity. You can choose to ignore it if you want, but nature has a way of winning in the end. The bottom line is that homosexual behavior is abusive. You can’t use certain body parts for activities that they’re not designed for without serious repercussions. If you really care about someone else, you wouldn’t hurt them physically or emotionally in order to satisfy your own desires.

You’re the one that had gay feelings not me!

Do you think it’s wrong to be female and gay?

I know what some churches teach is that homosexuality is a sin, some don’t. You justify being homophobic by picking churches that believe this is the correct interpretation - I know Catholics that would disagree with you. Be very clear this is your choice to feel this way.

 

[rlg94086]

You’ve chosen to use some interesting words there.

Catholics ‘know’ and believe with ‘strong faith’ and an atheist mearly guesses! I simply live my life applying equal logic to all situations. I’m not unkind to people, I enjoy my life and do the best I can to improve it and the lives of those around me - these are all things that a good religious person would agree with and a bad religious person would say and then not act on.

I’m not placing a bet on whether or not there is a god I just don’t believe things just because I’ve been told they are true - there are infinate things I don’t believe in by exactly the same logic just like there are infinate ideas that you don’t believe in, ancient gods are often used as an example.

I used the word “guess” because you don’t seem very confident in your beliefs. If I am wrong, and you actually believe that you know God doesn’t exist, then I stand corrected.

To be honest I would be normally quite happy to live and let live, you think there’s a god, I don’t - big deal! Let’s enjoy life! I just get a little angry when some people base a prejudice against a group of people because of what a book says - it’s this sort of unthinking that leads to unforgivable behaviour. I feel this way about all injustice - racism, sexism, homophobia - it’s exactly against behaviour that will see society improving. If you want to accept what you are told is true you will just be behaving as somebody else would have you behave - the bible was written by men and they were racist, sexist and homophobic - wouldn’t you rather attribute these behaviours to men living 2000 years ago rather than your deity?

That is an inaccurate statement. Our belief is not based on “what a book says” and the Church teaches us not to be prejudiced. You really should learn about Catholicism before saying silly things like that.

As far as us being “unthinking…” really? That is the best you’ve got? It is very ignorant and uncharitable to think that Catholics blindly follow the Church without thinking. Besides, your faith in your own rational capabilities sounds more illogical to me.

No, I’ll only be subjected to divine judgement by your particular god IF your particular god a) exists and b) is and feels in the way that some Catholics believe.

Again, you seem very uncertain in your beliefs. A true atheist would be completely certain that God does not exist. I think you are probably an agnostic. I pray that you are led to the Truth someday.

 

[estesbob]

You’ve misunderstood again.

You seem to define god as your inner voice.

I really dont feel a need to “define:” God. God is who who he is as revealed to us over the last 4,000 years via scripture and the teachings of his Church. When one has the audacity to believe they get to define God they end up with a muddled spirituality like you express. I think it can be summed up as “there is no god but there is a god he agrees with me”.

I don’t have a god. As far as I accept the world nothing follows me anywhere, nothing whispers in my ear. There are two popular gay bars in the town where I live and I go to them with gay friends and straight friends. You’ve made the assumption, even though I did say earlier that I predominantly end up chatting with women, that these are male bars.

You have a God-the same God alll of us do. The fact you choose to reject him does not make him go away.

I’m not claiming that my inner voice is better than mine only that, in very simple terms, mine does not have a book that would justify me being offensive to people!

To try and distill Catholicisn down to a “book” shows such a breathtaking ignorance of our Faith. I am not being offensive-in fact the greatest act of love I can show you is to tell you that by rejecting God and the teachings of his Church you are puting yor immortal soul at risk. Now if you fnd it offensive to be told this then i suggest you not come to a Catholic forum and ask us to validate your behavior.

I’d describe myself as far from narrow-minded - one of the reasons I’m responding to your post is that I find it interesting what other people think, you’re not going to agree with everyone!

l’ll leave it up to the other posters in this thread to judge that

You seem angry, would that be accurate?

Not angry at all-why would you think that? Does it fit into some neat little steretype you have of religious people? I am. however, profundly sad to see someone surrender themselves to sin.

 

[estesbob]

You’re the one that had gay feelings not me!

Do you think it’s wrong to be female and gay?

It is not a sin to have Same sex attraction. it is a sin to act on it.

I know what some churches teach is that homosexuality is a sin, some don’t. You justify being homophobic by picking churches that believe this is the correct interpretation - I know Catholics that would disagree with you. Be very clear this is your choice to feel this way.

Ah so now the term “homophobic” rears its ugly head. The last defense of those who cant defend their postion. I suspect you think that by defining all of those who disagree with you as homophobic it makes you feel more secure in your beliefs?

Homophobia is a clinical term that desrcibes one who is afraid of homosexuals. It is very rare-in fact there are far fewer people afflicted with homopobia than there are those who engage in homosexual beahvior.

Yes there are some denominations that now say homosexual behavior is not a sin. This is a fairly recent occurence and is based on what is called presentism-that is the belief that this geneation is the wisest most enlightened genration ever. Thus even though up until the last 50 years or so all Denominations taugh homosexual behavior is a sin they all got it wrong becuase this generation is simply smarter that all who went before them. The problem with this is it assumes morality is subjective-based soley on the whims of the current generation. Those who emabrace this philosophy do so at their own risk

 

[gwendes]

I used the word “guess” because you don’t seem very confident in your beliefs. If I am wrong, and you actually believe that you know God doesn’t exist, then I stand corrected.

I can only ‘know’ as much as anyone can know anything- this is toying with words. I believe that China exists, I’ve seen evidence for it existing but I can’t KNOW for certain until I visit - it could be an elaborate scam although I wouldn’t say it was very likely.

rlg94086:

That is an inaccurate statement. Our belief is not based on “what a book says” and the Church teaches us not to be prejudiced. You really should learn about Catholicism before saying silly things like that.

And your church is based on?

rlg94086:

As far as us being “unthinking…” really? That is the best you’ve got? It is very ignorant and uncharitable to think that Catholics blindly follow the Church without thinking. Besides, your faith in your own rational capabilities sounds more illogical to me.

Some people think more than others. I couldn’t possibly know how seriously you’ve considered the idea that there might not be a god. I’m not certain there isn’t, you seem certain there is.

rlg94086:

Again, you seem very uncertain in your beliefs. A true atheist would be completely certain that God does not exist. I think you are probably an agnostic. I pray that you are led to the Truth someday.

I’m very clear in what I believe but looking at the universe in a strictly scientific way you cannot have certainties in the same way that you understand. Very, very few atheists would say that there is no god - 100%. Dawkins doesn’t.

A-theism is simply without. Like I said, there are many things that I don’t believe in based on evidence exactly in the same way there are many things you don’t believe in - I just require evidence, you think you’ve found it.

Would it be accurate to say that the ‘Truth’ might not be as you understand it today? God has had plenty of opportunities where I have been in a church and countless requests for me to find him and yet he remains ellusive - I guess I’m not very high up his to-do list!

estesbob:

I really dont feel a need to “define:” God. God is who who he is as revealed to us over the last 4,000 years via scripture and the teachings of his Church.

What about before 4000 years ago?

estesbob:

You have a God-the same God alll of us do. The fact you choose to reject him does not make him go away.

Umm… I really don’t! Saying things doesn’t make them true! You’re a Pastafarian! See…

estesbob:

I am not being offensive-in fact the greatest act of love I can show you is to tell you that by rejecting God and the teachings of his Church you are puting yor immortal soul at risk.

Why do you deny the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

estesbob:

l’ll leave it up to the other posters in this thread to judge that

With all due respect they don’t know me!

 

[estesbob]

Why do you deny the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

With all due respect they don’t know me!

When my chidren were young and asked a serious question(like about sex) I always could tell when the conversation had moved to a point where they were getting uncomfortable and further discussion was uselss. It was when they started acting silly and asking silly questions. We have reached that point.

 

[rlg94086]

I can only ‘know’ as much as anyone can know anything- this is toying with words. I believe that China exists, I’ve seen evidence for it existing but I can’t KNOW for certain until I visit - it could be an elaborate scam although I wouldn’t say it was very likely.

And your church is based on?

Well, it was founded by Jesus Christ (God incarnate) and is sustained through Apostolic Tradition - 2000 years of sacred teaching as revealed directly by God on earth to the Apostles (and many other disciples), handed down to us through the Church - this includes the Bible, which is written record of the Apostles actual experiences and teachings of Our Lord. And, of course, the Apostles were Jewish, and their religion is based on direct divine revelation to Abraham, Noah, Moses and others, as recorded in the Old Testament (i.e. Torah, Nevlim, Hagiographa).

And your beliefs are based on? Yourself? Logic? How much does a chick in an egg know about the outside world? To believe that life is limited by what you can sense is highly illogical.

gwendes:

Some people think more than others. I couldn’t possibly know how seriously you’ve considered the idea that there might not be a god. I’m not certain there isn’t, you seem certain there is.

I’m very clear in what I believe but looking at the universe in a strictly scientific way you cannot have certainties in the same way that you understand. Very, very few atheists would say that there is no god - 100%. Dawkins doesn’t.

So, you are very clear in your belief that you are not certain. Got it.

gwendes:

A-theism is simply without. Like I said, there are many things that I don’t believe in based on evidence exactly in the same way there are many things you don’t believe in - I just require evidence, you think you’ve found it.

Would it be accurate to say that the ‘Truth’ might not be as you understand it today? God has had plenty of opportunities where I have been in a church and countless requests for me to find him and yet he remains ellusive - I guess I’m not very high up his to-do list!

Indeed, I have found it…“and you can find it too” (to quote an old evangelical slogan).

Anyway, this thread isn’t really the right place for this discussion. I invite you to hang around the CAF, but these issues are better discussed in the Apologetics forum. We should get back to the discussion about the new “scientific evidence” about brain differences in this thread.

 

[gwendes]

When my chidren were young and asked a serious question(like about sex) I always could tell when the conversation had moved to a point where they were getting uncomfortable and further discussion was uselss. It was when they started acting silly and asking silly questions. We have reached that point.

How interesting that I find your arguments childish - we’ll have to agree to disagree. I’m proud of the fact that I judge people by the content of their character and not if they fancy males or females.

At least I’ve tried to answer your questions - hopefully given you a different viewpoint to consider…

rlg94086:

And your beliefs are based on? Yourself? Logic? How much does a chick in an egg know about the outside world? To believe that life is limited by what you can sense is highly illogical.

Of course I do. I trust myself! There are people I trust, friends and family… The people close to you told you about religion, the people close to me didn’t. I’m not going to pretend that I know everything - I’m certainly limited by what I’ve learnt but why would you want to pretend otherwise.

The logical seems to be finding supporting evidence for what you have come to believe - evidence for you may be in the bible, it isn’t for me.

Does that make me a bad person? Damned to hell - to be honest I really couldn’t care less if you think it does. I’m happy

To suggest that I’m limited because I don’t think a superbeing created the universe or watches over us is narrow-minded.

 

[cyberwolf001]

You should try going to a gaybar or pub, you might enjoy it!

I did that once it actually lowered my view of homosexuals.

While many seemed like happy loving people there was a strong emphasis on sex all over the place more so than in any other bar which even at the time struck me as odd.

I thought yes sex is good and healthy inside or outside of marriage (This is BEFORE I became Catholic folks) but isn’t this just a wee bit over the top?

There was a straight family that came by looking for directions they got directed down a dark road and into a deep hole that damaged there car. This was a favorite joke to pull on ‘breeders’.

One of my Lesbian friends believed all girls would be lesbians with they had a good lesbian rape, there was even a group that liked getting straight girls drunk and doing this.

Do I think all gays do this NO! Not just no but [EXPLICATIVE DELETED] NO!

In spite of setting up a lesbian couple there and being loving and accepting, I was always treated like I was a threat.

That said I have never been able to view the gay community in the same way sense then…

I admit I’d give anything to be able to look at a group of gay people and not think right away that they might be up to no good…

 

[Tracy10]

There is no doubt in my mind, whatsoever, that being gay is genetic. Some religions take the stance that it’s a choice which I feel is nonsense. I have seen gay evidence in children as early as the age of two when they aren’t yet aware of choice. It’s also clearly apparent that many gay men have female features and vice versa.

While I did state earlier that I was strongly opposed to gay pride parades (because eliminate the permission of other exempted groups to participate in pride as well, and because I also feel they invite more opposition yet to their lifestyles versus acceptance), , the lack of understanding given to these people is indeed sad and I hope that one day people can see things in a more fair light.

Demanding that a gay marry a member of the opposite sex if he wants to be intimate is not only as difficult for that member to force himself to love as it would be for a heterosexual to force the opposite, but it’s also extremely unfair for the spouse and children that are produced as a result os such a union. People simply CAN’T FORCE lust or love upon themselves if they aren’t inclined toward a particular sex. It’s pretty hard to love anyone without some form of lust being involved originally; therefore an entire family could be left feeling truly neglected.

It’s not fair to expect gays to spend their entire lives alone either.
God created them that way just like he created many animals who are also the same. If it wasn’t God who did this, then it was mankind who destroyed the environment and introduced all kinds of chemicals to cause people to be born this way. Gays shouldn’t be punished for this.

 

[Father_of_9]

Let’s be clear - no one is forcing you or anyone to be intimate with someone else. You have free will and can choose whom you wish to be intimate with, even if it involves behavior that is abusive and harmful. But don’t expect everyone to agree with your choice if it involves homosexual behavior. We will continue to share our viewpoint, based on medical evidence as well as moral reasoning, that homosexual behavior is harmful to the participants. We will also continue to educate the general public about the dangers of homosexual activity in order to protect others, especially children and yound adults. But you are free to do as you wish, but you’ve been warned of the consequences.

 

[rlg94086]

Of course I do. I trust myself! There are people I trust, friends and family… The people close to you told you about religion, the people close to me didn’t. I’m not going to pretend that I know everything - I’m certainly limited by what I’ve learnt but why would you want to pretend otherwise.

The logical seems to be finding supporting evidence for what you have come to believe - evidence for you may be in the bible, it isn’t for me.

Does that make me a bad person? Damned to hell - to be honest I really couldn’t care less if you think it does. I’m happy

To suggest that I’m limited because I don’t think a superbeing created the universe or watches over us is narrow-minded.

You are making assumptions about how I came to believe, where I find my “evidence,” and what I may think of the state of your soul. Sounds like a pretty “limited” outlook to me.

As I said, this isn’t the place for apologetics. If you truly don’t care, then I doubt that you would be on the CAF. I truly hope you wander over to the Apologetics forum and learn about our faith, rather than make assumptions.

 

[estesbob]

There is no doubt in my mind, whatsoever, that being gay is genetic. Some religions take the stance that it’s a choice which I feel is nonsense. I have seen gay evidence in children as early as the age of two when they aren’t yet aware of choice. It’s also clearly apparent that many gay men have female features and vice versa.

And you base this conclusion on what? You must have some basis for you opinion that having same sex attraction is genetic. Science has been researching this for years and has bee unable to prove it

As far as seeing two year olds exhibit homosexual tendencies.That is, to put it nicely, nonsense. I believe you are seeng what you want to.

While I did state earlier that I was strongly opposed to gay pride parades (because eliminate the permission of other exempted groups to participate in pride as well, and because I also feel they invite more opposition yet to their lifestyles versus acceptance), , the lack of understanding given to these people is indeed sad and I hope that one day people can see things in a more fair light.

Understand what? Why should i accept sin? If I validate sinful behavior am I not sinning myslef?

Demanding that a gay marry a member of the opposite sex if he wants to be intimate is not only as difficult for that member to force himself to love as it would be for a heterosexual to force the opposite, but it’s also extremely unfair for the spouse and children that are produced as a result os such a union. People simply CAN’T FORCE lust or love upon themselves if they aren’t inclined toward a particular sex. It’s pretty hard to love anyone without some form of lust being involved originally; therefore an entire family could be left feeling truly neglected.

Surely you are not suggesting that one can not love somenone unless they have sex with them? You know along with your comments on 2 year olds it appears that sex permeates your worldview. We should not define oursleves on what our sexual behavior is.

It’s not fair to expect gays to spend their entire lives alone either.
God created them that way just like he created many animals who are also the same. If it wasn’t God who did this, then it was mankind who destroyed the environment and introduced all kinds of chemicals to cause people to be born this way. Gays shouldn’t be punished for this.

God does not force anyone to enage in any kind of sexual behavior-we engage in sex out of our own free will.

 

[Annn]

Father of 9, how is homosexual sex “medically harmful”? I assume, thugh maybe I shouldn’t, that you’re referring to anal sex between men. I hope you know that not all gay men engage in anal sex. Actually, a school-wide survey taken at my university (where there are many sexually active gay men) showed that in our school population, of men who had sex with men, a majority of them weren’t having anal sex.

 

[Father_of_9]

Any type of sex outside of marriage between a husband and wife who are faithful to each other and practice natural (penis-vagina) sex is medically harmful. So yes, anal sex is harmful as is oral sex, promiscuity and other unnatural sexual activities. Yes, some heterosexuals can and do those things, but not all. But all active homosexuals do one or more of those things since natural sex is not an option they choose. There is plenty of medical evidence available if you look for it. In fact, today there is a report from MSNBC about the dramatic rise in HIV/AIDS in young men who have sex with other men (MSM). You just can’t misuse or abuse certain body parts for sexual activity when they aren’t designed for it. No amount of rationalizing or hopeful thinking is going to change that fact.