School shooting reported in Santa Clarita

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So just carry on and let the students be shot dead?
see my past post in other threads,
I think that the lives of 14 and 15 year old students are worth it.
you are assuming it will stop the killers. the tech isn’t here yet.

I think when it is available, many will purchase on their own and not need government intervention. those who won’t, will probably not let the tech stop them. it is to easy to get a black market gun.
 
you are assuming it will stop the killers.
Of course gun recognition technology would reduce the likelihood of a 16 year old boy from shooting his parent’s gun.
 
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AINg . . .
Of course gun recognition technology would reduce the likelihood of a 16 year old boy from shooting his parent’s gun.
And THAT can be a problem too right AINg?

14-Year-Old Shoots Armed Intruder To Save His Siblings in Phoenix​

A 14-year-old teen male shot an armed intruder in an attempt to protect his family in Phoenix. The teen boy nearly killed the armed man who invaded his home while he was babysitting his three siblings, ages 8,10 and 12 during the afternoon on Friday . . .

. . . Officer James Holmes also stated the 37-year-old alleged armed intruder is expected to survive and will be booked on charges of aggravated assault and burglar once he is released from the hospital. The burglary suspect was not able to “get a shot off” before being shot by the the quick-thinking teenager who grabbed his father’s handgun while protecting his siblings up the stairs.

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South Carolina Boy, 13, Fatally Shoots Burglar, Scares Off Second Suspect: Police​

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Nov. 12, 2015, 8:24 AM CST / Updated Nov. 12, 2015, 12:54 PM CST

By Erik Ortiz

A 13-year-old South Carolina boy fatally shot one burglary suspect and scared off a second with his mother’s gun, police said.

The unidentified teenager told the Charleston County Sheriff’s Office that he was alone on Tuesday afternoon in his family’s home, north of North Charleston, when someone tried to break in, according to NBC affiliate WCBD.

The boy grabbed his mother’s gun, and then waited at the back door of the home, the station reported. Police say the boy fired repeatedly through the door, and someone outside shot back. . . .

. . . The burglary suspect was identified by authorities as Lamar Brown, 31. His rap sheet includes six felony drug charges and an unlawful carrying of a weapon charge.

Related: Man Arrested After Home Invasion in Which 11-Year-Old Killed Teen Intruder.

. . . A sheriff’s deputy . . . Unfortunately, we lost an individual who died, a 13-year-old child lost his innocence after having to fire." . . .

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14-year-old girl fires gun to save sisters from intruder​


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Teen stabbed by an intruder fights back with a gun in Spanaway​

. . . was attacked by the neighbor’s ex-boyfriend, authorities said.

The 16-year-old fought back with a gun, scaring off her assailant, who later was taken into custody. . . .
https://www-1.thenewstribune.com/latest-news/article218020130.html
 
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That is a value judgement. Answers to that will vary by people’s value systems.
murder is against the law, we can guess the values of the perps with this intent. Do you think a tech lock will stop them?
Of course gun recognition technology would reduce the likelihood of a 16 year old boy from shooting his parent’s gun.
would it? when a kid will kill his parents, do you think a tech lock will be a real deterrent? as I said they would have worked out this detail in the planning stage.

the gun laws in California haven’t stopped the killing, the black market is thriving. Ban guns in the states and they will come from out of the country with our open borders. too much money to be made, like drugs.
There are thousands of threads and tens of thousands of posts. Why not give your suggestions here and now?
too long and redundant for each gun thread.

a few brief points:
physical barriers
arm the teachers/professionals in schools,
lock up the violent offenders (long sentencing)
enforce the gun laws existing
no more plea deals for gun crimes
get rid of the school policies that hide violent juvenile behavior
eliminate the “criminal carry only zones”
bring back the broken window policy
etc.
 
physical barriers
arm the teachers/professionals in schools,
lock up the violent offenders (long sentencing)
enforce the gun laws existing
no more plea deals for gun crimes
get rid of the school policies that hide violent juvenile behavior
eliminate the “criminal carry only zones”
bring back the broken window policy
I agree with almost all of these, except that I think it better to have highly trained armed guards and snipers instead of arming the teachers. I already said that if you are not going to agree to gun control, you are going to have to have secure walls or fences around the school and a metal detector with a frisk and search policy to scan for weapons.
However, I would not abandon some of the other gun control measures such as recognition technology. With recognition technology you would have a better idea of who actually shot the gun. And it would be difficult (if not impossible) for the 16 year old to shoot his parent’s gun.
Further, I think that just as with cars, being required to be annually registered and insured, so too it should be with guns. Just as with cars, the safe driver has to have insurance against the accidents committed by others, so too I would propose that all gun owners carry insurance, renewed annually, and that money be available from the insurance companies for the funerals and the medical expenses of the victims of gun violence.
 
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We already have tech locks for guns.

A safe.

Someone might object and say . .

“Well locks can be defeated!”

Exactly. Just like they can on a gun.

Other households might WANT their gun at the ready.

Why?

A police officer in his home who has had his life AND his family threatened by gang members, some of which he helped put away in jail, may WANT his firearm READY to go immediately.

He knows his “smart gun” has been apparently shorting out (AGAIN) and the battery draining and not functioning again like it did at the range may cost his kids, his wife, or him his life this time.

So he keeps his REAL gun at hand instead and says “forget it” about his “smart gun”.

The same “smart gun” which needed a system update by the new electronic gunsmith that he now needs too, in addition to the usual gunsmith.

Maybe the E-gunsmith can get this done in the next couple weeks and get that quick-drain battery malfunction repaired too at the same time.
 
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would it? when a kid will kill his parents
Yes it would help. How would a child shoot his parents if the gun did not work because of grip recognition failure?
this is the problem with anti-gun propaganda, how about, he uses another tool?
However, I would not abandon some of the other gun control measures such as recognition technology. With recognition technology you would have a better idea of who actually shot the gun. And it would be difficult for the 16 year old to shoot his parent’s gun
only if it worked, as it stands now, it isn’t perfected and cost-prohibitive to the poor. if you were giving the tech away, then this would be a starting point for discussion.
Further, I think that just as with cars, being required to be annually registered and insured, so too it should be with guns. Just as with cars, the safe driver has to have insurance against the accidents committed by others, so too I would propose that all gun owners carry insurance, renewed annually, and that money be available for the funerals and the medical expenses of the victims of gun violence.
again, it is a matter of cost and denying the poor a constitutional right. people control is what gun control is really about.
 
Children can be trained in appropriate use of guns in many cases.

Parents are the best ones to make that decision though. Not me or the Government.

I think the NRA should be invited into the schools to at least share their Eddie Eagle safety program with all schools.

Here are just a few examples of kids using guns to defend themselves and their families:
This was only about half of the listed events.

To see them all go here . . .

 
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denying the poor a constitutional right
Should we then make sure that the poor women can have abortions of little cost so that their right to an abortion (as determined by the US Supreme Court) is not abridged. Are constitutional rights as determined by the Supreme Court sacred? Is it true that the Constitution has set up the Supreme Court as the ultimate arbiter of what is and what is not allowed?
Which is more important?
  1. A Constitutional right OR
  2. The right to life of an unborn child or of a 15 year old school child?
Anyway, the current gun culture of the US is denying to schoolchildren the self evident truth as stated in the Declaration of Independence. that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life , Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness . When children are having nightmares, when then are scared to death of what is going to happen to them at school, when they have to undergo trauma inducing safety alert exercises, then their inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are being denied.
 
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murder is against the law, we can guess the values of the perps with this intent. Do you think a tech lock will stop them?
In using the term “murder” and “perp” you’ve already included a declaration of a value judgement in your question. The more neutral term would be killing. But as we’ve already seen the value judgement applied to killings is situational and varies. Ex: killing in self defense will probably be evaluated differently by many individuals than say killing for gain.

As to your question on would a technology deterrent stop someone, it will stop some. I get the impression you are looking for an absolute solution with 100% effectiveness. Such a solution probably doesn’t exists. and this gets back into the territory of good being the enemy of perfect. Progress usually occurs in increments and rarely in leaps and bounds. A technology lock could be a step. Cumulatively steps can result in significant improvement over time. It could be a significant deterent or obstacle to those that acquire firearms by taking them without permission from their owners; this would include both people residing at the same address as the owner such as a child or roommate and a person that has acquired a firearm from say breaking and entering.

As an item of something that provides emotional satisfaction for some there are those that find value in knowing that if someone takes possession of an item of theirs that the item will not be of use to the person that took it without significant efforts that may be outside of the capabilities of the person that took it. Such is the case with some phones where the phone can be set to be without function until the owner authorizes it to be used by someone else. Phone related companies have been increasingly enabling this feature by default to combat theft. It may have real effects on would-be users of the ill acquired gains.
 
Should we then make sure that the poor women can have abortions of little cost so that their right to an abortion (as determined by the US Supreme Court) is not abridged. Are constitutional rights as determined by the Supreme Court sacred? Is it true that the Constitution has set up the Supreme Court as the ultimate arbiter of what is and what is not allowed?
Which is more important?
self-defense is a God-given right, I don’t think abortion is the same.

The supreme court didn’t make abortion a right, just legal and in certain circumstances. it can be overturned.
  • A Constitutional right OR
  • The right to life of an unborn child or of a 15 year old school child?
a silly question used to pull on the heartstrings of people who don’t understand the role of guns. Give the 15-year-olds a chance by using some of the items I suggested above. making them defenseless hasn’t worked. people want these kids to vote but not defend themself, which is it? are they mature or not?
Anyway, the current gun culture of the US is denying to schoolchildren the self evident truth as stated in the Declaration of Independence
No, the lawmakers created the issue when they denied schools any defense. they created “criminal only carry zones” taking away anything that could stop the perp. Blaming the gun is just using kids to get control of the people. When I was 15, kids took their own guns to school and most boys had a knife in their pocket. what is different?
. When children are having nightmares, when then are scared to death of what is going to happen to them at school, when they have to undergo trauma inducing safety alert exercises, then their inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are being denied.
It is all about upbringing. When you let the village bring up the kids, we should not be surprised they can’t cope with real-world scenarios. The “everybody-wins” society is not reality, evil exists and you don’t make it go away by not educating kids about it. Kids should have been taught gun safety at an early age instead of being sheltered and learning about guns from TV and video games.
In using the term “murder” and “perp” you’ve already included a declaration of a value judgement in your question. The more neutral term would be killing.
we are talking about the premeditated intentional killing of people, it is murder.
As to your question on would a technology deterrent stop someone, it will stop some. I get the impression you are looking for an absolute solution with 100% effectiveness.
if this is such a good idea, why aren’t the cops using them? think about it, no cop would have to worry about his gun being taken from them and used against them. Which police department is using this grand idea? it isn’t ready for prime time.
 
It is all about upbringing.
No. It is about the American gun culture. God given inalienable rights, such as the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, take precedence over secular rights granted by a few men writing a Constitution more than 200 years ago. The American gun culture is denying school children their God given inalienable rights while favoring the man made secular Constitutional rights.
 
The American gun culture is denying school children their God given inalienable rights while favoring the man made secular Constitutional rights
The American liberal extremist culture has no problem denying school children the right to pray to God in school. A right granted to them in the same Constitution.
 
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AINg . .
The American gun culture is denying school children their God given inalienable rights while favoring the man made secular Constitutional rights.
No it’s not.
 
No it’s not.
I say it is because as already explained above, school children are being traumatized and frightened out of their minds as they are faced with the possibility of being shot dead while eating in the school cafeteria. Further, they are denied the pursuit of happiness because the gun culture is causing them to have nightmares. And they are traumatized by seeing their classmates being gunned down at school.
God given inalienable rights take precedence over what a few men wrote on a piece of paper more than 200 years ago.
The supreme court didn’t make abortion a right, just legal and in certain circumstances.
Wrong.
According to the Supreme Court 1973 (7-2 decision)
The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides a fundamental right to privacy that protects a pregnant woman’s liberty to choose whether or not to have an abortion .
Read Roe v Wade.
Which takes precedence here?
  1. The constitutional right that protects a pregnant woman’s liberty to choose whether or not to have an abortion .
    OR
  2. the God given inalienable right to life of the unborn?
 
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AINg . . .
they are denied the pursuit of happiness because the gun culture is causing them to have nightmares.
So says you.

So what?

I think it’s the other way around.

I think the left, between all the scary talk, and the moral degeneration that the country that is fanned by the left
(especially teaching them the “disposable people culture”
especially with their constant pom pom waving for murdering innocent pre-born children
and the metastasizing of that attitude in society)
is responsible.

The “gun culture” is made up of many of America’s finest people. That’s WHY they can pass background checks for their conceal and carry permits.

That’s why those people are willing to put themselves on the line to protect their fellow Americans at the local burger joint (quietly being prepared to help other citizens at a moment’s notice).

Many on the left can’t pass their background checks because of drug convictions, domestic violence, drunk driving, or whatever.

No AINg. The gun guys are among the best citizens this country has.

It’s the left and
their sacrament of abortion and
their sexual deviancy and their pornography (sometimes even made part of school programs), and
their nature quasi-worship (with scaring the children about how New York City will be underwater in 2016 due to some phantom global warming prediction), and
all the proverbial nuclear fallout from all of that
which has caused the children to have nightmares.

You have it totally wrong AINg.
 
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No. It is about the American gun culture.
There have been guns in this country since the beginning and they were easier to obtain, why all of a sudden are the children the victims?

it is not the gun culture, that is as old as the country.
Wrong.
According to the Supreme Court 1973 (7-2 decision)
The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides a fundamental right to privacy that protects a pregnant woman’s liberty to choose whether or not to have an abortion .
Read Roe v Wade.
Abortion is not a right. this supreme court ruling can be overturned with another supreme court ruling. Abortion was ruled under the due process clause but it does not carry the same weight as due process. To change due process would require a constitutional amendment. abortion just needs another case.
 
AINg puts out murdering innocent people as a “right” merely because the court says so.

Here is AINg’s some of own words . . .
According to the Supreme Court 1973 (7-2 decision)
The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides a fundamental right to privacy that protects a pregnant woman’s liberty to choose whether or not to have an abortion .
Read Roe v Wade.
But the court was WRONG.

There is no “right” to murder innocent people.

And everybody knows it was WRONG. Which is WHY the left is bracing itself for a reversal.

Roe was based on a lie. Even the late “Roe” herself admitted that (btw. “Roe”, or Norma McCorvey didn’t get that abortion and had a conversion to the fullness of Truth, Catholic Christianity, before dying).
“She was beginning to separate the evil (of abortion) from the person, which is something that the pro-abortion mentality does not do,” said Father Pavone. "The problems surrounding an unexpected pregnancy cannot be eliminated by eliminating the child, . . .

. . . After her conversion to Christianity and her renouncement of the abortion movement, McCorvey continued her search for the truth. Father Pavone said, “She came to the pro-life position but then she continued following that truth.” He said that when people embrace the truth and are faithful and open to it, truth will lead them all the way. “And that is what she did,” said Father Pavone. “She (McCorvey) followed the truth to the fullest expression, which is the Catholic Church.”

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On top of the lie . . .

Roe was based on the court “devining-in” a “penumbra” into the Constitution.

They even admit that it was this “penumbra” that was their pretext for this fakery.
A “penumbra” is a shadow of a shadow.

It is FAKE. And (virtually) everyone who is being honest with themselves KNOWS it’s FAKE.

There is NO “right” to murder innocent people in this country. . . at ANY stage.

The alleged “right” to murder innocent people,
is the “Emperor’s New Clothes” of civics.

It is a chapter that will leave America horrified when we get back to our senses some day.

It will be seen as a stain the likes of slavery which
de-personalized black people.

It will be seen as a stain the likes of naziism which
de-personalized Jewish people.

It will be seen as the stain that it is, abortion which,
de-personalizes pre-born people.

And it’s the left (not the right) who coalesces around these types of causes.
It is the left, that has made abortion their cause celebre.

.

These are the problems causing the school shootings. This attitude instilled deep into the fabric of our society. Not guns.
 
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