scripture and homosexuality

[feetxxxl]

in romans1 what truth was exchanged for what lie and how was what entity of creation worshipped and served, so that as you are saying,… certain individuals were given over to homosexuality?

the term "their women " implies ownership of property, or connection. homosexuals have no women. are we to presume this was a family affair?

there has been an over emphasis of the sex act. yet in committed one flesh human relationships frequency and satifaction of sexual intimacy is indicative of a good relationship. sexual intimacy being an act that expresses and affirms the devotion in the relationship. is that not the concern by marriage counselors(pastors and lay persons)

 

[Elric]

**“And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” - *Romans 1:27 ***

This is actually having a go at hetrosexuals for performing unnatural acts and for turning their backs on God to go back to their old religion.

For hetrosexuals, homosexual acts are very unnatural. But for homosexuals however…

**“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.” - *Leviticus 18:22 ***

The actual translation for the first part is:

“And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman”

It makes little sense and can be taken to have many different meanings.

The second part could mean “ritually unclean” rather than “abomination” and is part of the same code that has eating birds of prey, eating shellfish, cross breeding livestock, picking up sticks on a Saturday, planting a mixture of seeds in a field, and wearing clothing that is a blend of two textiles.

**“The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the Lord thy God.” - *Deuteronomy 22:5 ***

This has nothing to do with homosexuality.

 

[jay29]

Would you like to explain to me how HOMOSEXUAL ACTS are not FORNICATION, which falls under lust?

All true Christians know that **ANY **sex outside of a marriage between a man and a woman is FORNICATION and is a DAMNABLE sin

Jesus said “If you look at a woman lustfully you have committed adultery in your heart.” Looking at another man lustfully is committing a homosexual act in your heart. The act is a sin.

 

[feetxxxl]

first all the sexual immorality(fornication, niv does not use this word )paul was referring to sex with prostitutes. paul was talking about the body being the temple of the spirit…would one unite that with a prostitute.

outside of this specific reference there is no clear understanding thru the words of scripture what sexually immorality paul is referring to.

however in the church i attend which is almost completely gay, couples here marry. so i see no point in bring this issue up.

because there is no indication that homsexuals bond out of any different spirit than heterosexuals. bonding being embracing a committed life sharing relationship with a life pardner.

is there any indication that homosexual marriages in massachussets are trending toward the same divorce percentages as the heterosexuals that were married at the same time or the 50% heterosexual national percentages?

my understanding of lust, by its very nature, is the antithesis of human bonding.

 

[ricko]

Scripture is clear:
Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder (Matt. 19:4–6).

“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination” (Lev. 18:22) and then instituted the death penalty for disobeying this commandment:

Women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error (Rom. 1:26–27).

Do you not know that the unrighteous **will not inherit the kingdom **of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9–10).

The law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, immoral persons, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine (1 Tim. 1:9–10).

Trying to twist scripture to justify your lifestyle will still not change the clear Word of God. An active homosexual is not natural. You cannot justify it by saying you “love” each other. It doesn’t matter how nice of a person you are or if anybody else thinks you are, you cannot use that or any other augurment to justify an unnatural and sinful act. The sin is especially bad since most homosexuals deny that they are breaking the law of God even though scripture has been shown to them many times. Those who twist scripture and spread lies that homosexual activity is ok with God will not fare any better. It’s called flaunting your sin in the face of God and those who do such acts “…will(not) inhert the kingdom of God”.

 

[Publisher]

I always find it interesting that if Christians know any verse of the Torah, they know those few verses in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. If they can quote the New Testament, they most assuradly quote the first chapter of Romans…but they also have no problem forgetting any other Levitical prohibition and they never continue after Romans 1:32 on to 2:1 and beyond…there were no chapter breaks in the original.

If homosexuality is a sin, then God will judge it. BUT if it is not, and every scriptural verse which seems to address it really addresses issues more cultural than moral. True, older men should not corrupt young boys…in that respect those older men take away a childs innocence.

If it was so cut and dry, there wouldn’t be this discussion. Fact is, it is not cut and dry. Those few 5-6 passages of scripture which on the surface appear to condemn gay people, in reality do not. The NIV translation that uses the word “homosexual offender” does so more for the translators religious beliefs than the literal translation. Fact, we don’t know exactly what word Paul was trying to convey…he made up a new word in this passage.

I would rather err on the side of love and compassion, than on the side of condemnation and fear…and hate…which we find so prevelant in the church when gay people are concerned…

In my Meeting we have decided as a body to accept those gay people who have come to us requesting we take their relationships under our care…we have offered to those who wish to make a lifetime commitment before God and the Meeting “after the manner of Friends” a place to do so…a community to live out the diverse love of God in our midst.

God created male and female…two extremes…two being so totally different from one another to show the infinite diversity of humanity…“In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek (race is of no distinction), male nor female (sexual expression, sexual differences are no difference), bond nor free (economic and societal status), but we are one in Christ Jesus.”…God’s call us to diverse community…to live out His life in our world…and He blesses His creation…His new Creation in Christ…male, female, gay, straight, Arab, Jew, Irish, Dutch…“red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in His sight…Jesus love the little children of the world…”

Each of us will one day stand before the One who knows us best, and loves us most…He calls us to “love one another”…all too often we forget that the gay person is the “stranger in our midst”…

 

[ricko]

As I said, you try to justify a sin by calling it “love” and that makes it all ok. You ignore scripture or twist its meaning. Actually it IS cut and dry. It’s just that the sinner wants to continue in his sin and will use any means to try to justify it.

 

[LilyM]

why do you put so much emphasis on procreation like it is the be all to end all.

Not us - GOD. His very first command, in fact his very first words, to humankind were ‘be fruitful and multiply’. That command has never been rescinded.

Obviously it was and remains an issue extremely important to Him, and homosexual activity of any kind goes entirely contrary to the spirit of God’s plan for humanity.

 

[Eden]

scripture has never declared homosexuality a sin

Being a homosexual is not the sin, the sexual acts that take place are the sin. Sexual acts between men are immoral, as they take place outside of the Sacrament of Matrimony. When Jesus instituted the Sacrament of Matrimony, He said it was between a man and a woman. Outside the bonds of marriage, all intercourse between individuals is fornication. This includes homosexual intercourse. Sexual acts between men are also unnatural, i.e. against the laws of nature, because they involve placing a reproductive organ in a place created for the evacuation of waste. This is, in its essence, not natural (despite your pleas that they are natural for men who are attracted to each other). So, in conclusion, homosexual acts are sinful and homosexual men are, therefore, called to celibacy.

 

[mark_a]

believe what you want, but scripture has never declared homosexuality a sin.

…not from the prohibitions of lev(not all prohibitions of themselves were a sin, and other things that were condoned are now considered intolerable evils) to sodom’s condoning of the gang rape of strangers, to the shame based lust of romans( lust being the antithesis of human bonding. human bonding is done out of mutual love , respect, devotion, trust, and attraction for a shared committed life together) to the “malebed” of 1cor and 1tim(how can an animate person be transposed for an inanimate object, and how out of all the possible meanings was homosexual the one specific one designated.

jesus said we would recognize them from their fruits…fruits as depicted in fruits of the spirit in gal5.

paul said the things of the sin nature are OBVIOUS…by their very essence, it is self explanatory on how they come against the fruit of the spirit (gal5) and loving ones neighbor as oneself(the summation of all the law)(romans).

what is self evident of the essence of homosexuality that it would come against both of these?

Sex is for making babies.

Heterosexuals who are sinning by committing adultery or fornication, or who are aborting with surgery or the pill, or who are contracepting, are all trying to divert God’s attention away from their own sinful lives.

It won’t work.

Homosexuals are called to chastity every bit as much as everyone else.

 

[Eden]

Sex is for making babies.

Or, at least, a married couple should be open to the possibility of creating life. In married life, it is also a way of bonding and giving of oneself completely to the other, with or without actually reproducing. But again, outside of marriage, it’s just fornication.

 

[mark_a]

Or, at least, a married couple should be open to the possibility of creating life. In married life, it is also a way of bonding and giving of oneself completely to the other, with or without actually reproducing. But again, outside of marriage, it’s just fornication.

Agreed. I ommitted the “bonding” issue because I’m guessing that homosexuals also feel sex “bonds” them.

 

[Elric]

Scripture is clear:
Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder (Matt. 19:4–6).

Your point?

“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination” (Lev. 18:22) and then instituted the death penalty for disobeying this commandment:

You should have read the post two poats before your own.

That isnt the correct translation (your quote that is) for those particular verses.

Women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error (Rom. 1:26–27).

Same with this one.

Do you not know that the unrighteous **will not inherit the kingdom **of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9–10).

Even though that is ambigous (are homosexuals considered “sexual perverts”), its still a mistranslation. The word used was invented by Paul and doesnt have a translation aside from the literal of “Male” and “Bed”. It wouldnt cover female homosexuality (but then again there is only the one verse that arguably does).

The law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, immoral persons, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine (1 Tim. 1:9–10).

Sodomites is most defenatly a mistranslation as that is a recent term for homosexuals (and is actually inaccurate to boot). This is another passage that Paul uses his created term. There were terms/words available to Paul at the time which he could have used to express the meaning of “homosexuality”, he chose not to use any of those terms/words which does suggest that he didnt actually mean “homosexuality”.

Trying to twist scripture to justify your lifestyle will still not change the clear Word of God. An active homosexual is not natural.

For starters let me say that I am not homosexual and have no interest in becomming homosexual, for me it is not natural because I am hetrosexual and I do not agree with it since I have no desire to practice homosexuality.

Those verses are not clear in the slightest, they are quite ambigous because for the most part nobody actually knows 100% what they mean. It appears that the only people who have twisted what they mean are the religious groups themselves, since they are the ones that are asserting what these passages mean.

You cannot justify it by saying you “love” each other. It doesn’t matter how nice of a person you are or if anybody else thinks you are, you cannot use that or any other augurment to justify an unnatural and sinful act. The sin is especially bad since most homosexuals deny that they are breaking the law of God even though scripture has been shown to them many times.

Scripture shows nothing about homosexuality, its quite unclear on the issue.

Aside from the adultry part, you have nothing that proves that it is actually a sin.

Those who twist scripture and spread lies that homosexual activity is ok with God will not fare any better. It’s called flaunting your sin in the face of God and those who do such acts “…will(not) inhert the kingdom of God”.

Actually what you are doing is twisting scripture, nobody knows for certain what those passages translate to.

They could speak against homosexuality, although with some they could have used a far less ambigous term.

Or they could mean something else completly.

 

[feetxxxl]

Scripture is clear:
Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder (Matt. 19:4–6).

“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination” (Lev. 18:22) and then instituted the death penalty for disobeying this commandment:

Women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error (Rom. 1:26–27).

Do you not know that the unrighteous **will not inherit the kingdom **of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9–10).

The law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, immoral persons, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine (1 Tim. 1:9–10).

Trying to twist scripture to justify your lifestyle will still not change the clear Word of God. An active homosexual is not natural. You cannot justify it by saying you “love” each other. It doesn’t matter how nice of a person you are or if anybody else thinks you are, you cannot use that or any other augurment to justify an unnatural and sinful act. The sin is especially bad since most homosexuals deny that they are breaking the law of God even though scripture has been shown to them many times. Those who twist scripture and spread lies that homosexual activity is ok with God will not fare any better. It’s called flaunting your sin in the face of God and those who do such acts “…will(not) inhert the kingdom of God”.

ASKED AND ANSWERED…CONSIDER WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED .

 

[feetxxxl]

for those of you who believe scripture says homosexuality is a sin.

in addition to quoting the scripture …please explain how the actual words of that scripture actually do say it.

 

[peary]

Homosexuality is about orgasm.

if that were the case, then they would not be providing loving nurturing homes for raising abandoned and rejected children from heterosexual unions, equal to those of heterosexual married couples.

Statistics show that raising children in a same-sex home has a negative affect on their psyches as they grow older. Children raised by single parent and same-sex couples have a greater tendency to experience depression, drug use, and suicide.

and the sexual intimacy in that relationship would not be enhancing the loving nurturing environment ,which it does otherwise, there would be no equality in nurturing environments.

Sexual union in same-sex couples does not result in an openness to conception and life. Sexual union is by sodomy.

if it were about lust compared to heterosexuals, homosexuals would be lacking in sectors of society compared to heterosexuals. that is not the case. homosexuals have never been found wanting in any sector of society compared to heterosexuals. they are not less a brother, sister, lawyer, counselor, doctor, pastor, soldier, neighbor, friend etc.

Lust has nothing to do with functioning in sectors of society.

homosexuals bond out of mutual love, respect, devotion, attraction and trust for a committed shared life together the same as heterosexuals.

Same sex attraction bonds out of lust and narcissism.

where there is lust their no human committment. all commitment is to satiating the lust, the other human involved is not for bondiing, but for satiating the lust.

Same sex couples have more multiple partners than heterosexual married people.

.

 

[feetxxxl]

Not us - GOD. His very first command, in fact his very first words, to humankind were ‘be fruitful and multiply’. That command has never been rescinded.

Obviously it was and remains an issue extremely important to Him, and homosexual activity of any kind goes entirely contrary to the spirit of God’s plan for humanity.

what is fruitful? the people at the time of noah who were fruitful and multiplied and god not only wiped them out but every living thing that was of them.

or commited homosexual couples who open their homes to abandoned and rejected children from heterosexual unions. homes that are equally nurturing and loving as heterosexual married couples. and the sexual intimacy expressed in those relationships enhances that loving, nurturing environment.

so it is your position that these couples instead of being together should be seperate, and consequently there would be no devoted relationship and subsequently no loving and nurturing home and no parented children.

jesus said we would recognize them by their fruit…not if they are able to be fruitful or not.

 

[feetxxxl]

Being a homosexual is not the sin, the sexual acts that take place are the sin. Sexual acts between men are immoral, as they take place outside of the Sacrament of Matrimony.

how is it you put so much emphasis on the sex act. in bonded human relationships frequent and satisfying sex is believed to be an indication of the devotion of that relationship.

since homosexuals bond out of the same spirit as heterosexuals…mutual love, attraction,respect, trust and devotion for a shared commited life together why sexual intimacy not account for the same with homosexuals as heterosexuals.

in the raising of children the sexual intimacy enhances the nurturing and loving environment in the family household.

where is the sin? did not paul say in romans we are now to be led by the spirit? by what spirit are you condemning it as sin?

otherwise is it being led by the written code. which written code would that be. are you familiar with hebrews 8

in my 400 member church mostly gay, couples marry.

When Jesus instituted the Sacrament of Matrimony, He said it was between a man and a woman.

have you not read matthew 19:11-12

Outside the bonds of marriage, all intercourse between individuals is fornication. This includes homosexual intercourse. Sexual acts between men are also unnatural, i.e. against the laws of nature, because they involve placing a reproductive organ in a place created for the evacuation of waste.

in romans one: "27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women " apart from homosexuals not having any women, consider : that natural relations are those things given of the spirit that exude and embrace the fruit of the spirit(gal5) which is are a bonded relationships and are given up for a lust based relationship that is without the fruit of the spirit. the fruit of relationships that are motivated by shame based lust is self hatred and self loathing “due penalty”. there is no personnal commitment. all commitment is to the lust.

what witness do you have that there is any correlation between the shame based lust of romans and homosexual bonding?

This is, in its essence, not natural (despite your pleas that they are natural for men who are attracted to each other). So, in conclusion, homosexual acts are sinful and homosexual men are, therefore, called to celibacy.

 

[Elric]

As I said, you try to justify a sin by calling it “love” and that makes it all ok. You ignore scripture or twist its meaning. Actually it IS cut and dry. It’s just that the sinner wants to continue in his sin and will use any means to try to justify it.

1: What sin exactly?

2: What part of scripture is being “twisted” and how?

3: Guess work and assumptions do not count as “cut and dry”.

If you are going to continue to call something a sin, then you have to show proof that it is a sin. So far you have been unable to do so.

So far you have only asserted that it is by quoting mistranslated biblical verses (for example; Paul didnt use the term “sodomite”, it would have had an entirely differently meaning for him) and promptly accused others of “twisting” things. Im sorry but that simply doesnt cut it.

You have to show something to support your assertions.

 

[ralphinal]

At no point have you answered how any form of sex outside of Marriage is not considered a sin according to Jesus. Let us discuss Jesus. He makes it clear that even sexual thoughts are to be only about your wife.

I am sorry if your cross is SSA. It is a difficult cross. But ignoring the teachings of God to justify your sin does not change it. I do not care about feelings or any of that. God says that only sex between married a man and a woman married to each other. That is the only form of sex allowed.