scripture and homosexuality

[Moireach]

And btw
If Wikipedia is anything to go by
The Roman Catholic church IS against homosexuality, and does believe it’s a sin.
I swear i remember the Roman Catholic church speaking against gay marriages when it was in the news a few years ago.

 

[Moireach]

I just looked it up and i’m right, the Roman Catholic church IS against homosexuality, and so it the Protestant church.
If you disagree i can give u some links to prove it…

 

[IHF]

Being homosexual is not a sin. participating in homosexual acts is what is sinful.

No amount of spin on xfeet’s part will change the position of the C.C. on this.

If you want a religion that will tell you that having homosexual relations is good for your soul than it is obvious that the C.C. is not for you.

Heres a tip. When out driving look for churches with the rainbow flag on them. They will marry you and your partner. Will it be a marriage in the eyes of God? No. Will you be able to validate the marriage? No. However these have never been important parts of your movement. Embarrassing Christianity is what you’re really after and congrats you’ve succeeded.

Why don’t you people move onto Islam and try to do the same thing with that religion? You’re too scared, that’s why, as you know you could get into some real trouble if you try to publicly push a gay marriage agenda within Islam.

Now please move along.

 

[wisdomseeker]

FEETXXXL

I know when we desire things that are contrary to the Word of God; we try to justify any way we can.
but it will not work. i have tried myself.

it is from the heart that many evil comes. and the fruits show what is in the heart of man.

[SIGN] St Michael the archangel, defend us in battle.[/SIGN]

 

[feetxxxl]

FEETXXXL

I know when we desire things that are contrary to the Word of God; we try to justify any way we can.
but it will not work. i have tried myself.

it is from the heart that many evil comes. and the fruits show what is in the heart of man.

i have not asked for justification, but instead explanation. i have still not heard anyone explain how the words of scripture say homosexuality is a sin.

when i challenge the use of lev i get no explanation or when i challenge the transposition of 1tim and 1cor, the same

or how the words of romans 1 say that homosexuality is a sin …the same.

my contention is still the same. believe what you chose, but scripture does not say homosexuality is a sin.

most responses are about what is believed?

[SIGN] St Michael the archangel, defend us in battle.[/SIGN]

 

[Eden]

Feetxxxl:

The Sacrament of Matrimony can only be conferred upon man/woman couples. This will never change. The Catholic Church will never marry homosexual couples… ever:

“Have you not read that the Creator, from the beginning, made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? Therefore now they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder” (Matthew 19:4-7).

And civil unions, whether they are homosexual unions or not, will never be recognized by the Church as legitimate:

“A Catholic who attempts to enter into marriage before a minister or a civil magistrate (such as a judge or a justice of the peace) is not really married at all. He commits a grave sin by going through such a ceremony; and the couple will be living in habitual mortal sin as long as they continue to cohabit”.

beginningcatholic.com/catholic-marriage.html

All sexual activity outside of marriage is fornication and is, therefore, sinful. Since homosexual unions can never be valid, homosexual intercourse will always be fornication, sinful. The Church founded by Christ, which honors the Sacrament of Matrimony that he instituted, will never perform homosexual marriages and the Church will never change its teaching on fornication, including homosexual fornication. THE END.

 

[Stephen168]

Let me try this again:

there has been an over emphasis of the sex act. yet in committed one flesh human relationships frequency and satifaction of sexual intimacy is indicative of a good relationship. sexual intimacy being an act that expresses and affirms the devotion in the relationship. is that not the concern by marriage counselors(pastors and lay persons)

You justify homosexual sex because it indicates a good relationship and sexual intimacy affirms the relationship. Siblings have great relationships. Using the same reasoning; sexual intimacy to affirm their relationship would be justified. True?

 

[Tim_Hayes]

homosexuality, write or wrong who gives a damn, explicitly critisized or not in the bible who gives a damn, implicitly critizised or not, who gives a damn, born or made who gives a damn, people can argue all they like about it being write or wrong from a philosphical or indeed religeous point of view.

However it is a simple fact that the majority of homosexual abuse sexually people under the age of consent.

Statisitically speaking , homosexuals account for something like 1-3% of the population but account for at least 5-10% of sexual abuse of the population.

In other words we know that for men at least 5-10% of men are sexually abused under the age of consent, with the figure put at much higher by social groups who are not for or against homosexuality as such.

Now consider the figures what we are saying is that 1-3 men in a hundred are responsible for nigh on all the abuse on boys, yet those boys are somewhere between 5-10 in number, Whereas some of the remining 97-98 out of 100 straite men are responsible for the sexual abuse of 5-10 girls.

So we can say that if there are 3 homosexual in every hundred then each homosexual is repsonible for the sexual abuse of approximatley 3 boys.

Whereas it works out that in worst case scenario that hardly any straite men (extremely small number) are responsbile for the 5-10girls in a hundred abused.

Simple facts are that whatever is the reason people are homosexual for, they are extremely deviant when compared to the norms and not a single one should have access to the young as the risks are too high.

I pity those who are homosexual becasue whether they are born that way or made that way they have an extremely strong tendancy towards being sexually deviant let onlone all sorts of other problems.

Naturally we can safely say that not all homosexual are abusers etc, however the risk is so high that any parent who allows kids to be in the regular contact with homosexuals should have their kids removed from them.

You know I love these sorts of debates, becasue whilst I am catholic I can use the churches own stats against the homosexual lobby.

The stats basicly show that approximatly 90% of sexual abuse by priests were on males, now the fact that the priesthood is only a male occupation helps with out analysis because it shows that whatever number of priests are homosexual we kow that it is not going to be anything like 90% so it is obvious upfront that homosexual present a greater risk. Not only that. It takes years of training to be a priest etc, so we can say that generally those who were are priests and abused kids were probably those on the scale of things who were doing in their minds their best not to do such thing. So despite their best efforts they abused those under the age of consent.

The sad fact for homosexuals is that they present a great risk to the health of our children.

 

[feetxxxl]

Feetxxxl:

The Sacrament of Matrimony can only be conferred upon man/woman couples. This will never change. The Catholic Church will never marry homosexual couples… ever:

“Have you not read that the Creator, from the beginning, made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? Therefore now they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder” (Matthew 19:4-7).

matthew 19: 11Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. …The one who can accept this should accept it."

jesus is giving a spirit message for all eternity, that there are those have not been given the word of a one flesh man woman bonded relationship. as to whom,it is , is not to be limited by legalities, but by a test of spirit.

romans 8: 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

1thess 5:21 test everything , keep the good.

And civil unions, whether they are homosexual unions or not, will never be recognized by the Church as legitimate:

“A Catholic who attempts to enter into marriage before a minister or a civil magistrate (such as a judge or a justice of the peace) is not really married at all. He commits a grave sin by going through such a ceremony; and the couple will be living in habitual mortal sin as long as they continue to cohabit”.

beginningcatholic.com/catholic-marriage.html

All sexual activity outside of marriage is fornication and is, therefore, sinful. Since homosexual unions can never be valid, homosexual intercourse will always be fornication, sinful. The Church founded by Christ, which honors the Sacrament of Matrimony that he instituted, will never perform homosexual marriages and the Church will never change its teaching on fornication, including homosexual fornication. THE END.

 

[Eden]

Matthew 19:11 refers to celibacy. So, what does that have to do with practicing homosexuals?

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0102fea5.asp

Romans 8:14 is not referring to being moved to homosexual activity. It does mean that even people with homosexual feelings are sons of God. Fornicating is still a sin, even when as sons of God.

Nothing in your response disputes the truth that homosexual activity is and always will be fornication, sinful and homosexual unions will never be performed in the Catholic Church. That’s just the way it is and will always be.

 

[feetxxxl]

Matthew 19:11 refers to celibacy. So, what does that have to do with practicing homosexuals?

that is a legality approach. there were three conditions of not receiving the word.

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0102fea5.asp

Romans 8:14 is not referring to being moved to homosexual activity. It does mean that even people with homosexual feelings are sons of God. Fornicating is still a sin, even when as sons of God.

8:14 says that the sons of god are led by the spirit.

homosexual people bond in the same spirit as heterosexual people. thru mutual love, attraction, respect, trust, and devotion.

if one is of god how can the other not.

or how is that one comes against loving ones neighbor as oneself (the summation of all the law)and the other does not.

Nothing in your response disputes the truth that homosexual activity is and always will be fornication, sinful and homosexual unions will never be performed in the Catholic Church. That’s just the way it is and will always be.

fornication was about sex outside of marriage, at the church i belong to homosexuals couples marry.

as i said before, believe what you want to believe but scripture never declared homosexuality a sin.

 

[Elric]

Um, no its not. Where do u get that from?

Where do I get it from?

From reading Romans.

I think you are translating this the way u want to, that is clearly not what it’s saying.

Translating it the way that I want to?

So they are performing natural acts and have not turned from God?

I think the New Century Version translates it perfectly:

‘In the same way, men stopped having natural sex and began wanting each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and in their bodies they recieved the punishment for those wrongs.’

This translation isnt even based on assumptions. I dont see how u can argue with it.

Well it is quite easy to argue with, especally when you try to take it out of context like you are doing.

Its quite clear that they were hetrosexual and they turned from their natural state (hetrosexual) to a state that is unnatural for them (homosexuality).

Its also abundantly clear that they chose to turn their backs on God to worship something else. It also sounds like their sexual debauchery was a way of worship and ritual for them (sex was a common practice for certain pagan cults at that time).

There’s no such thing about being born gay. Anybody could be straight if they wanted. A bit suspicous how all of a sudden when the culture changes gays suddenly emerge isnt it.

That shows that you dont know anything about homosexuality.

Of course it looks like they have “suddenly emerged”, until recently it was illegal to be homosexual (by recently I mean very late in the 20th century). You could be imprisioned for being gay and you could even be executed if you were homosexual, its no wonder that homosexuals kept quiet about their sexuality.

Homosexuals simply cant be straight if they wanted. If they could, then many would have done so rather than go through the trauma and self loathing of being homosexual. Because many would rather not be homosexual (for various reasons).

As far as being “born gay”, well the jury is still out on that one. Many researchers are going with theory of the combination of birth and early enviroment, but they are still not sure what triggers it.

No it doesnt the meaning is clear, however there are many rules in Leviticus that are not taken seriously.

Oh really?

I think that you are making that up, I certainly dont know what the heck “Lay lyings” means. It could mean dont have homosexual sex in a womans bed, it wouldnt be the strangest law that was written.

Cringe. That is so unnecessary. Why when they could so easily be straight and KEEP God’s law?? grr, i hope that’s a catholic church, cos that would disgrace the Protestant church, and is a very bad witness to the unsaved.

I think you should study up on homosexuality (possibly speak to a couple of homosexuals) before you make any more comments, thats just ignorant.

 

[Eden]

Homosexual people bond in the same spirit as heterosexual people. thru mutual love, attraction, respect, trust, and devotion.

if one is of god how can the other not.

or how is that one comes against loving ones neighbor as oneself (the summation of all the law)and the other does not.

If you are having intercourse with someone to whom you have not been joined through the Sacrament of Matrimony, you are fornicating, not matter how attracted you are to each other. We’ve been over this many times already. No matter how many ways you try to justify fornication between anyone outside marriage, it’s still sinful fornication.

fornication was about sex outside of marriage, at the church i belong to homosexuals couples marry.

All homosexual sex is fornication because homosexuals never have been and never will be joined in Matrimony in the Catholic Church. I don’t recognize civil marriage as valid, including civil marriages between two men or two women. So, we are back again to the fact that homosexual sex is fornication, as it occurs outside the bonds of Matrimony.

as i said before, believe what you want to believe but scripture never declared homosexuality a sin.

Homosexual sex is a sin:

catholic.com/library/Homosexuality.asp

 

[LaMar]

Hi Elric,

Where do I get it from?
Its quite clear that they were hetrosexual and they turned from their natural state (hetrosexual) to a state that is unnatural for them (homosexuality).

I was going to bring this up, but decided not to bother. In any event, thanks for your cogent rebuttal. This is the classic argument to the Mormon contention that Paul described homosexuality as “unnatural”. In fact, Paul was talking about heterosexuals who were indulging in experimentation, and Paul never even mentioned men whose natural tendency was homosexuality.

As a straight guy, I’m pretty happy with the heterosexual lifestyle and as such don’t care what others do. I’m starting to really wonder why so many people are so obsessed with homosexuals, what homosexuals do and how they behave. The only people I have ever known who put this much effort into condemning homosexuality turned out to be homosexuals themselves, who obsessed about something that was personally relevant to their own lives, up until the day they simply accepted their own inborn tendencies. I’m confident that if some of the people posting here would simply “come out of the closet” and move on with their lives, they’d be much happier.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

homosexuality, write or wrong who gives a damn, explicitly critisized or not in the bible who gives a damn, implicitly critizised or not, who gives a damn, born or made who gives a damn, people can argue all they like about it being write or wrong from a philosphical or indeed religeous point of view.

However it is a simple fact that the majority of homosexual abuse sexually people under the age of consent.

Statisitically speaking , homosexuals account for something like 1-3% of the population but account for at least 5-10% of sexual abuse of the population.

In other words we know that for men at least 5-10% of men are sexually abused under the age of consent, with the figure put at much higher by social groups who are not for or against homosexuality as such.

Now consider the figures what we are saying is that 1-3 men in a hundred are responsible for nigh on all the abuse on boys, yet those boys are somewhere between 5-10 in number, Whereas some of the remining 97-98 out of 100 straite men are responsible for the sexual abuse of 5-10 girls.

So we can say that if there are 3 homosexual in every hundred then each homosexual is repsonible for the sexual abuse of approximatley 3 boys.

Whereas it works out that in worst case scenario that hardly any straite men (extremely small number) are responsbile for the 5-10girls in a hundred abused.

Simple facts are that whatever is the reason people are homosexual for, they are extremely deviant when compared to the norms and not a single one should have access to the young as the risks are too high.

I pity those who are homosexual becasue whether they are born that way or made that way they have an extremely strong tendancy towards being sexually deviant let onlone all sorts of other problems.

Naturally we can safely say that not all homosexual are abusers etc, however the risk is so high that any parent who allows kids to be in the regular contact with homosexuals should have their kids removed from them.

You know I love these sorts of debates, becasue whilst I am catholic I can use the churches own stats against the homosexual lobby.

The stats basicly show that approximatly 90% of sexual abuse by priests were on males, now the fact that the priesthood is only a male occupation helps with out analysis because it shows that whatever number of priests are homosexual we kow that it is not going to be anything like 90% so it is obvious upfront that homosexual present a greater risk. Not only that. It takes years of training to be a priest etc, so we can say that generally those who were are priests and abused kids were probably those on the scale of things who were doing in their minds their best not to do such thing. So despite their best efforts they abused those under the age of consent.

The sad fact for homosexuals is that they present a great risk to the health of our children.

I’m sorry but until you support any of your purported facts with a legitimate source I refuse to believe this (since I have sources from the AMA, the APA and personal experience in State Corrections that testify to the contrary).

You’re welcome to believe whatever you want about homosexuality, but remember that bearing false witness is still a grave sin.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

By the way, I’d suggest a few psychology courses in order to familiarize yourself with sexual deviance.

Pedophilia has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation. A perfectly heterosexual male can and does molest boys exclusively.

 

[feetxxxl]

All homosexual sex is fornication because homosexuals never have been and never will be joined in Matrimony in the Catholic Church…

the church can do anything it wants.

that explains nothing.

 

[LittleDeb]

This will be the third and final time that I ask this question. If I am not answered, I will assume it is because the OP understands the flaw in this course of thought.

Did you see that Jesus described marriage as one man to one woman? Did you also see sex outside of that union as being sinful? The answer to both should be yes. If so, homosexual sex is a sin.

Now, please refute this if you can. Did Jesus describe sex outside of marriage as a sin and did he describe marriage as one man and one woman?

Unless this post is finally addressed, then this whole thread is a dodge.

 

[LaMar]

This will be the third and final time that I ask this question. If I am not answered, I will assume it is because the OP understands the flaw in this course of thought.

Did you see that Jesus described marriage as one man to one woman? Did you also see sex outside of that union as being sinful? The answer to both should be yes. If so, homosexual sex is a sin.

Now, please refute this if you can. Did Jesus describe sex outside of marriage as a sin and did he describe marriage as one man and one woman?

Do you have the Jesus character saying any of this explicitly in the gospels?

What I’ve found in the New Testament is Jesus promoting celibacy (see Matthew 19 for one example), and permitting marriage (not specified to gender) as a lesser evil than simply running around with anyone and everyone.

Jesus never condemned anyone for expressing himself or herself in the way s/he was naturally created. I can’t believe that Jesus, if he existed, would be cruel to homosexuals or care too much about them at all, provided they were ethical and acting within the bounds of reasonable restraint, the same way heterosexuals were expected to behave.

 

[Eden]

All homosexual sex is fornication because homosexuals never have been and never will be joined in Matrimony in the Catholic Church…

the church can do anything it wants.

that explains nothing.

Homosexual sex is fornication, as it takes place outside the bonds of Matrimony. This is very clear cut, homosexual sex is sinful.